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Don Dudenbostel
22-Jan-2016, 15:08
We all make foolish mistakes and a couple of years ago thinking I was retiring and moving across the US and might not have a darkroom I sold my Durst 138 and 3 spare bulbs. Life is uncertain and always subject to change and I didn't move and didn't retire. I recently set out to find another 5x7 enlarger and I found a really nice one in almost the same condition as my original just 3 hours away. The sad part is it had a 211 bulb in it so I had to find a suitable substitute. I tried a 300 W sylvania bulb that some recommended, a G40 150 W bulb, LED flood lamp with opal glass diffuser and various combinations of diffusion material and bulbs. If you're only printing up to 4x5 then the 300 W Sylvania is a good alternative but I print 5x7 negatives and even coverage of illumination was terrible.

Next I tried the 150w G40 and had pretty good luck with it and feel it's a possible alternative for 5x7 negs. I was able to adjust illumination to be pretty even across the entire neg. I had to reposition the socket in the enlarger to the horizontal position due to the design of the filament but this might vary with brands of bulbs.

In the sale of my original 138 I had a Componon S 180 that went with it. Not having a 180mm laying around and not wanting to spend a bunch of money I picked up a mint 210 G Claron. I used a 240mm G clarion years ago on my 8x10 enlarger and it performed quite well so I figured give it a try with a 210mm. Well it works great but it's slow. F9 wide open is an issue with a dim light source. I rarely print larger than 11x14 and with the G40 my exposures were around 1 minute with a typical negative using multigrade Ilford FB and a filter. That's OK but you can grow old burning in a neg. Ideally I like to print two stops down around 30 seconds.

My next try was the G40 150w again but this time I connected a Variac to it. The bulbs are around $4 so boosting the voltage cutting life of the bulb for additional output was no big deal. I figured if it worked I'd pick up a couple of cases of bulbs and be set for life (I'm old). By boosting the voltage to 140v I picked up 1/2 stop or just a touch more. This is getting closer but I wanted to see if I could get even more light.

I read several articles on the internet about LED sources so I ordered a 60w equivalent 3000K LED flood light and a piece of opal glass from Edmund Scientific. I placed the bulb in the horizontal position and the opal glass in the filter tray. Unfortunately the flood that I had wasn't very even in illumination but I think there are some that might be better. Also the opal glass cut my light back to about what I had with the G40. I did some research and there are bulbs that have 120w equivalent output which is double what I tied indication this might be a workable alternative.

My next attempt was with a light panel I bought off ebay. Search this --- 21W Dimmable CREE LED Recessed Ceiling Panel Down Lights Lamp. The one I bought was a 21w non dimmable 3000K panel with driver. It arrived this week poorly packed and seriously warped but was ok to experiment with. What I would up having to do was remove the outer part of the frame. With the excess metal it was too big to fit in the compartment where the bulb goes. The aluminum was so soft I was able to break it away leaving a bit of a rough edge. What I would u doing was place the panel inside the bulb compartment facing the opening where the filter holder is. I ran the bracket to adjust bulb position up until it wedged the light panel between it and the top of the lamp housing. I had wired the panel with a household plug and screwed an medium base to household adapter into the lamp socket. closing the lamp housing up and flipping the enlarger on revealed the light was extremely even and pretty bright. I put the meter to it and found .2 stops variation from center to corner and each corner exactly the same. This is about what I'd expect from normal falloff of the lens.

The next step was to see how it printed. I had a few sheets of Ilford MG FB and a few normal negs handy and and gave it a try. To my delight I found a full frame print on 11x14 paper printed with a 2 to 2-1/2 filter at f16 or 16-22 and 28 seconds. A few more dense negs printed slightly longer but this is in the range of what I consider ideal. Initially I think contrast is about what I was getting with a tungsten bulb and times are where I want them. I have no heat and the light will last for decades hopefully.

Hope this helps. I'll post as I get more into this but think this might be a reasonable solution for home of us that print smaller.

145427

Jason Greenberg Motamedi
22-Jan-2016, 15:47
Sounds great! Is there a time delay between turning it on or off and when the light goes on or off? I notice with many household LEDs that there is a notable glow for a few moments after you turn the power off.

Don Dudenbostel
22-Jan-2016, 16:30
It comes on I nstany and haven't seen any afterglow. Actually Ive noticed that same thing with incandescent bulbs.

I also tried placing the panel in the mirror position and then directly on the 240 condenser but didn't see any advantage or gain in output.

Ginette
23-Jan-2016, 14:38
[...] I also tried placing the panel in the mirror position and then directly on the 240 condenser but didn't see any advantage or gain in output.

Interesting observations.
I'm curious about the LED placed in the mirror position, do you have same even lighting, .2 like you have in your actual setup?
As you cut into your LED panel, is it fit in the condenser slot, if yes, maybe you can try it just over the neg stage (without condensers) in diffusion mode.

jon.oman
23-Jan-2016, 15:28
I noticed the following color temperatures available:

Cool White 5700-6000k
Natural White 4000-4500k
Warm White 2700-3200k

Would one work better than another?

Don Dudenbostel
23-Jan-2016, 16:17
I took the light apart and it's nothing more than an LED tape with lights spaced about an inch or so apart wrapped around the inside of the unit and fastened to the sides by adhesive. There's a white frosted plastic sheet and a clear sheet that piles the light evenly over the surface of the white plastic. If you buy one and take it apart you can see that it would be very easy to build one inside the condenser housing. It's such a simple design.

I purchased the 2700-3000k unit. It was the closest to the temperature of the original bulb. The higher color temperature units probably would work but they're more blue ahich would cause your enlarger to print with different filtration. For example you might have to use a #1 to get a true #2. You'd just have to experiment. I've read articles where a 5000k LED was used and it worked but filtration for a specific contrast was different than expected.

Perhaps someone that knows materials better than me could buy one of these panels and determine what plastics are being used and report back. It would be so simple to build one if we knew the right materials.

Actually I might pull the one I have out a t take to the plastics supplier and ask them. I'm sure they could tell me and most likely gave some.

Also the way these are built I don't see why we couldn't stack them and multiy the intensity of light. Multiple rows of LED around the wa of the condenser housing with layers of the clear plastic to pipe the light all laying on a white diffusion sheet.

Luis-F-S
23-Jan-2016, 16:25
Wouldn't it be a whole lot easier to use a G40 and a 180 Rodagon? I bought mine on the Bay for $80.

Don Dudenbostel
23-Jan-2016, 18:27
I tried a 150W G40 and it just doesn't put out enough light. The light is more even with the LED panel also.

I'm looking for another nice 180 but haven't found anything under $225 and it was beat up a bit then I have to find a lensboard to fit.

vinny
24-Jan-2016, 07:45
Did you take any pics you could post of the unit as you took it apart?
Led tape is easy to come buy. We use it quite often in the film industry and it usually comes from literibbon.com. They have the widest variety and highest output of stuff available but it's not cheap (nothing in the film industry is).

Luis-F-S
24-Jan-2016, 08:46
I tried a 150W G40 and it just doesn't put out enough light. The light is more even with the LED panel also.

Puts out enough lite at f11 n the lower working height.

jon.oman
24-Jan-2016, 11:26
I purchased the 2700-3000k unit. It was the closest to the temperature of the original bulb. The higher color temperature units probably would work but they're more blue ahich would cause your enlarger to print with different filtration. For example you might have to use a #1 to get a true #2. You'd just have to experiment. I've read articles where a 5000k LED was used and it worked but filtration for a specific contrast was different than expected.


Understood. The cost of this unit is not that much. I'll have to order one....

Don Dudenbostel
4-Feb-2016, 07:04
Here's some info if you want to build a light source that would fit in a condensor housing. I'm thinking of giving it a try.

http://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/86781/how-to-make-whole-top-side-of-project-box-glow-uniformly

Drew Wiley
4-Feb-2016, 10:42
Not much muscle in these things. But if you are printing small on a fast paper it might be realistic.

Tin Can
4-Feb-2016, 12:09
I just ordered the 24 watt version of this (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5W-12W-18W-24W-Square-SMD-LED-surface-mounted-ceiling-recessed-downlight-For-Home-BedRoom-kitchen/32392330226.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id1=buyerPayOnlineSuccessToBuyer_en_US_2016-01-27&rowan_msg_id=71367256751637$1f01cf80b9dd4c17b646e955783fa477&ck=in_edm_other). It will take a month to get.
I plan to use it on DeVere 504.

I bought a smaller test one last year, same place and use it for 35mm slide copy light source.

jon.oman
4-Feb-2016, 12:17
I just ordered the 24 watt version of this (http://www.aliexpress.com/item/5W-12W-18W-24W-Square-SMD-LED-surface-mounted-ceiling-recessed-downlight-For-Home-BedRoom-kitchen/32392330226.html?tracelog=rowan&rowan_id1=buyerPayOnlineSuccessToBuyer_en_US_2016-01-27&rowan_msg_id=71367256751637$1f01cf80b9dd4c17b646e955783fa477&ck=in_edm_other). It will take a month to get.
I plan to use it on DeVere 504.

I bought a smaller test one last year, same place and use it for 35mm slide copy light source.

Did you notice that it is 220 volt?

Tin Can
4-Feb-2016, 17:38
Did you notice that it is 220 volt?

Ooops!

But I can deal with that.

I would not purposely order 220, but I have other drivers.

Storformat
29-Sep-2016, 12:04
Hi
Any update on LED for enlarger.
Would a "open" lamp work or will it generate uneven light
An open like this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271711289292
36 W looks good?

Tin Can
29-Sep-2016, 17:09
Hi
Any update on LED for enlarger.
Would a "open" lamp work or will it generate uneven light
An open like this one
http://www.ebay.com/itm/271711289292
36 W looks good?

I would not choose that to use as is. The square ones with diffusion MAY work depending on what YOU want.

To update my purchase from AliExpress.

I never got it. Lost $20, waited months. filed a non-delivery complaint which Ali denied and they have lost a customer.

I have bought from them prior.

Luis-F-S
29-Sep-2016, 18:12
Of all the folks who have tried to adapt an LED source to a Durst enlarger, I don't know of anyone who has reported that they found a source that works as well as the Durst bulb which is hard to find. I just don't understand how everyone tries to build a better mousetrap that doesn't seem to catch mice.

Tin Can
29-Sep-2016, 20:20
Of all the folks who have tried to adapt an LED source to a Durst enlarger, I don't know of anyone who has reported that they found a source that works as well as the Durst bulb which is hard to find. I just don't understand how everyone tries to build a better mousetrap that doesn't seem to catch mice.


Two valid reasons. I bought an 8x10 Fotar and DeVere 4x5 without heads. No choice but try DIY. Somebody else got to the heads first. Both chassis are superb and adapt to upgrade easily.

I have no regrets and see a way forward using LED as many do. Heiland certainly likes LED and many willingly pay for their professional products.

Luis-F-S
29-Sep-2016, 20:50
Two valid reasons. I bought an 8x10 Fotar and DeVere 4x5 without heads. No choice but try DIY. Somebody else got to the heads first. Both chassis are superb and adapt to upgrade easily.

I have no regrets and see a way forward using LED as many do. Heiland certainly likes LED and many willingly pay for their professional products.

And if you buy a Heiland LED head, you could have bought an entire DeVere enlarger with the Dichroic head for about 1/4 the price. So has anyone out there actually made an LED head that works? And how's the LED head for that Saltzman coming?

ruilourosa
30-Sep-2016, 00:07
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?125028-cooling-fan-on-Durst-138/page3

Just check the pictures, working for about a year now!!!!! no worries!!!!

Cheers!!!!