Options for scanning 4x5 negs

[LotusEsp]

Hi
So my first outing shooting with 4x5 was reasonably successful. I got a couple of exposures and I have developed them reasonably well (still to improve this step but that will come with practice I am sure)

Now I am wanting to think about getting my B&W + Colour negs scanned.
I know I can go to a lab and get my negatives scanned, but part of the draw of film photography is doing the entire process myself. I will lose interest quick if I have to keep going (and paying) for scanning services at a shop.
I'm not going to be printing myself more than A3 size, if I ever need to go above this, I guess I can get a lap to scan & print.

What options are there for scanning at home? I've read a few online comments that the Canon's Canoscan isnt as good as Epson V700/V800
Is the V800 the only viable solution for under $1000? I dont mind getting used kit if its available.

thanks

[mdarnton]

I bought a HP G4050 a year ago and it's doing fine. The price is right.

Sure, it's last year's technology, but scanning large film is not really all that difficult of a problem, and I didn't feel I needed The Best, just What Works for what I need to do. If you want the best, you need a drum scanner, anyway. I believe several other people here have one, also. It's appropriate technology for a very decent price.

Add the purchase of VueScan, though--the original software can't accomplish a decent scan, as many have discovered.

You talk about Canonscan v Epson, but you should be talking about how many dollars do I need to make a good A4.

[Alan9940]

I still use my now very old Epson 1680 (nearly 15 years old) flatbed to scan both 4x5 and 8x10 film. I scan at 1600 ppi which translates to roughly a 5x enlargement when printed; bigger than anything I'd normally print. Therefore, if you don't plan on making HUGE prints you can easily get by with yesterday's technology.

Good luck!

[LotusEsp]

Thanks for the HP suggestion, that does look a good price.

Alan, I actually have an old Espon perfection 2400, which still works. But if I was using 35mm I think I'd be fine to continue with that. However the diffuse lightsource in the lid I dont think is wide enough to cover 4x5 film and when I tried scanning it, it ended up giving 5 seperate scans. The software wont allow me to set a larger single scan size

[Jim Jones]

For several years I used an Epson Perfection 2450 to scan 4x5 negatives. If you are satisfied with the 2400 for 35mm, a 2450 should be great for 4x5. Probably, if the 2400 works on your computer, you could upgrade to a used 2450 or one of the later models. An Epson 700 eventually replaced the 2450 with no great improvement in performance for my modest needs.

[wilderness]

During 2013, I had a project where I was to scan some 12k in B&W negatives. After scanning just under 3k mis-communications ended the project.
I purchased four Microtek Scanmaker i900. (There are three currently on eBay, however they are drastically overpriced).
I was quite pleased with the machine and results.
Two-thirds of my scans were 4 x 5's and most of the remainder were 3 x 4's.

The scanners are quite heavy in weight and shipping is rather expensive.
I would caution anybody considering a used one to be sure you acquire as many of the original accessories as possible. Film holders and lower level transparency glass. Three I bought did NOT include the IT8 Targets, and they are most expensive (one may not even be found), however the IT8's are not required for B&W negatives. Seem to recall locating a website that offered downloads of profiles.

[Doug Fisher]

A refurbished V700 from the clearance center section of the EpsonStore is often priced in the low $400s. Stock changes daily and is unpredictable, so you just have to keep checking each day when they are out of stock. They sell out pretty fast when units finally become available.

Doug

[Alan9940]

Alan, I actually have an old Espon perfection 2400, which still works. But if I was using 35mm I think I'd be fine to continue with that. However the diffuse lightsource in the lid I dont think is wide enough to cover 4x5 film and when I tried scanning it, it ended up giving 5 seperate scans. The software wont allow me to set a larger single scan size

Well, perhaps a way to start is to use your Epson 2400 to scan separate sections of a 4x5 neg, and then stitch back together. I've not personally done this, but I've read many accounts of folks who do. Certainly not the ideal solution, but it could be a way to start with no investment.

[Peter De Smidt]

Do you have a dslr?

[seezee]

A refurbished V700 from the clearance center section of the EpsonStore is often priced in the low $400s. Stock changes daily and is unpredictable, so you just have to keep checking each day when they are out of stock. They sell out pretty fast when units finally become available.

Doug

There's a refurbished v800 there now for $599.

[LotusEsp]

Strange
A new V800 on amazon.ca is only $570 (usd)

[MAubrey]

I just got a used Epson 4990, which scans the same formats as the V700 and V800 for $125. Scan resolution is limited to 4800 DPI rather than the 6400 DPI of the V700 & V800. You can't beat that for value, I'd say...

[fishbulb]

Yeah most flatbed scanners are fine for large format. The film is large enough that even a relatively low-resolution scanner provides plenty of resolution. The Epson 4990, 700-series, and 800-series are all pretty similar, and the old ones are pretty inexpensive.

To get the most out of them though, you'll want to get a good film holder, maybe even a wet mount one. Most people seem to like the http://betterscanning.com ones. I wet mount all my scans because it gets rid of dust and you save a lot of time dust-spotting the scanned files.

If you're scanning 35mm or medium-format film though, then you might want to pay up to get a good flatbed, like a modern Epson V700/800 model or, even better, a dedicated roll film scanner like the Nikon Coolscan series.

[richardman]

I use the Betterscanning to scan my 617 films (medium format and smaller go to the Nikon LS-9000), and I tried both the Betterscanning 4x5 holder and the new 8xx holder on the V750. In the end, I stay with the V7xx holder as the film is pretty flat by itself and much easier to use. Of course, you do still have to adjust for the "perfect" height.

[Alan9940]

To get the most out of them though, you'll want to get a good film holder, maybe even a wet mount one.


I just run drum tape around the edge of the glass to keep the mounting fluid from seeping under it, squirt a bit of Kami fluid directly on the glass flatbed, lay my neg down, lay a piece of clear Mylar on top, then use a scanner cleaning cloth to work out the bubbles. Works like a champ and I've never had even a hint of any fluid getting down into my scanner. I guess it's a little messy vs some kind of fluid mounting station, but all ya need is the supplies; which ya need anyway. :)

[LotusEsp]

Is Kami fluid something which is special order or is there some generic fluid which people use?

[Peter De Smidt]

If you're in the USA, Kami is distributed by Aztek. It's mostly naphtha. Lumina is supposed to be a safer alternative. I've used both without issues.

[fishbulb]

I use Kami products for all my scanning. Haven't tried other brands.

Kami fluid is good stuff, gentle, and a bottle of it lasts a lonnnnng time. I use it to clean film as well (wiping with optical wipes) since it's safer than film cleaner in a lot of ways.

I have an original Howtek 4500 drum that has seen nothing but Kami products for over 20 years (still have the receipt) and the drum is still great.

Whatever fluid you use, it is still advisable to wear lung protection and/or use good ventilation while you're applying it.

[LotusEsp]

Thanks
Aztek wont ship Kami out of the USA (I am in Canada) but I have found an alternative.

Now I'd just need to find Mylar to overlay the film

[LotusEsp]

I managed to get a great deal on a G4050, I'm pretty happy as I think the V800 would have been overkill for me right now.

So I've seen people are using mineral oil instead of Kami fluid, I'm fine with that. I just need to work out what they call Mylar equivalent here. (a major trouble with living in a different country, is knowing the local names for stuff :))

[rich815]

I use and also recommend an Epson 4990 or newer (V700). They give very acceptable results with LF especially if you scan broadly for the most info and not for a contrasty "final" result. I use almost exclusively Vuescan for all my scanning too. That will mean initially a very gray and flat looking scan but that's what you want so you can work basic levels and curves to add some nice contrast and even work "burning/dodging" in locally for sharpness or details as desired without overly breaking up the histogram of tones.

Another option is a LeafScan 45 (and I have one of those too) though you generally need an older computer to accommodate it's dated SCSI hook ups, it's quite
Large and bulky, and it is LOUD when running, amongst other workflow quirks...

[LotusEsp]

I got my HP G4050 setup last night, grabbed demos of silverfast and vuescan.

Silverfast didnt seem to want to recognize my scanner (despite it being installed correctly and working fine) I made sure I got V6.6 for my HP scanner, but just didnt work. During install it said that the 64bit drivers weren't installed (but they were)
vuescan did install and detect the scanner fine however.

I only tried it with the included film holder, I haven't tried wetmounting yet. I'll leave that until the weekend when I have more time.

[JD_Bugs]

Try Duralar as an alternative to Mylar, it is available from most art supply stores. Also, I use plain mineral oil to wet mount negs using the betterscan holder. The easiest source of clean mineral oil is any good brand of sharpening stone oil, which is usually pure mineral oil. I use Norton Sharpening Stone Oil but I'm sure there are other brands. Mineral oil can be shipped and is virtually non toxic. Kami fluid is toxic and should probably be used under some kind of vent hood.

[tigger_six]

I use a V600 and scan the negative in two passes and stitch together.

[Ben Calwell]

Is the HP G4050 designed for large format, or do you have to stitch images together?

[Tobias Key]

Is the HP G4050 designed for large format, or do you have to stitch images together?

G4050 has a 4x5 holder included. One thing I have found though is the holder lifts the film too high, you actually get better resolution if you lay it directly on the glass. That of course introduces the possibility of newton rings on your scan and is fiddly.

[Ben Calwell]

Thanks -- that's good to know. It's less expensive than the Epson flatbeds.

[mdarnton]

All of the later scans on my LF flickr page, starting with the one of the cellist sitting in front of the piano, are done with the G4050. You can click the down-arrow on the lower right of the photos and see the original size scans. I'm usually scanning 4x5 at 2000ppi, 5x7 and 8x10 at 1000dpi, and this is all x-ray film. I haven't had any newton ring problems, probably because of the film's texture on the side against the glass. I will eventually try wet scanning directly on the glass, but the results I'm getting aren't unsatisfactory to me, so I haven't rushed to try that. http://flickr.com/michaeldarnton

I did try two-pass scanning on a 35mm neg, and while the results were not bad, the two-pass scan resulted in some strange doubling effect of the grain, and of course it took twice as long, so that doesn't seem like an improvement.

[graywolf]

Alan, I actually have an old Espon perfection 2400, which still works. But if I was using 35mm I think I'd be fine to continue with that. However the diffuse lightsource in the lid I dont think is wide enough to cover 4x5 film and when I tried scanning it, it ended up giving 5 seperate scans. The software wont allow me to set a larger single scan size

The 4x5 transparency adapter from the earlier Epson scanners works with the 2400. That is what I use. Actually, I bought the adapter then looked for the newest scanner I was sure I could use it with. Works fine for me with only a Epson 1400 printer.

So, look for one of the 4x5 adapters.

[Professional]

I am still holding with my V750M-Pro until i can get something better or say affording something better, but i really was looking for a used drum scanner, and i try to find one and nothing at all, and when i find one and try to save up for it it is gone in no time, so it is like i will never use anything other than my Epson until it stops working.