Age of Wollensak 6¼" (159mm) Extreme W.A.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

OK, here's one that's puzzling me...

Does anyone know how to, approximately, determine the age of a Wollensak 6¼" (159mm) f12.5 Anastigmat Extreme W. A.?

I recently purchased an unused 159mm f12.5 Extreme Wide Angle in a Rapax shutter in the original box. Here's the eBay item listing (which will expire in about 90 days – once the lens arrives, I’ll find a place to post a better picture):

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3877424207 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3877424207)

Here's the details:
Wollensak 6¼” (159mm) f12.5 Anastigmat Extreme W.A.
Serial Number 736166
Rapax Synchromatic Shutter
The lens is "Wocoted" as designated by the trademark big "C" surrounding a smaller "W".

There was another 159mm f12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle that ended earlier today on eBay. Item listing:

cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3879200323 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3879200323)

That one is in an Alphax shutter, with the following details:
Wollensak 6¼" (159mm) f12.5 Anastigmat Extreme W.A.
Serial No. A84258
In addition to the "Wocoted" symbol, this one also has a yellow dot.

So, anyone have any idea which one is newer? I've always assumed the models in the Rapax shutter were newer as the Rapax was the most advanced shutter Wollensak made. However, a 1954 Wollensak catalog I have offers lenses in both shutter types. The two different serial number styles adds to the confusion. I originally thought perhaps they just used a separate sequence starting with the letter "A" for lenses sold in Alphax shutters. The same 1954 catalog disproves that theory as well - it shows 135mm Raptar on the cover in a Rapax shutter with a serial number A32119. Both styles of serial numbers appear throughout the catalog. Of course, some of the photos could have been old stock shots that were taken years before the catalog was published. If anyone has ANY Wollensak serial number data, that would help put this mystery to bed once and for all. Unfortunately, my own Wollensak literature collection is very sparse and of no value in sorting this out.

In the end, it probably doesn't matter much. I'm just trying to satisfy my own curiosity. Obviously, both samples are coated and made post-WWII - most likely some time between 1946 and 1965. They are probably both equally fine performers (given that both are in outstanding condition). I'm just always trying to find clues to dating these older lenses. In addition to Wollensak serial number data, I'd also love to get my hands on Bausch & Lomb serial number info. I know, around the time of WWII, B&L switched from a purely numeric serial numbering system to one consisting of two letters followed by four numbers. The two letters are likely some sort of code (similar to Kodak's CAMEROSITY) that can be used to date the year of production. For the life of me, I haven't been able to come up with any code word that makes sense. Any ideas?

Kerry

[Diane Maher]

I don't know about these lenses either, but as I have an f/9.5 version that is not coated (I think that's right), I would be interested in finding out more about the lens too. I think my lens serial number starts with an A. I'll look when I get home.

[Mark Sampson]

Kerry- here's some almost relevant info. I used to have a bound copy of Popular Photography from 1945... in one there was a Wollensak ad, offering a contest to re-name the Velostigmat lens series. The winning name was "Raptar". Doesn't help your immediate question but enough trivia collected will yield either useful information, or a giant mound of trivia.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Hi there,

If it's a help, someone listed a military 15" tele-raptar, serial #Cxxxxxxx, date July 1956. Your catalog has a #Axxxxx from 1954-53. The circle/W logo started 1945. Wollensak appears to have run their serial # across all their lines, the newest serial #Exxxxx.

Have fun with the hunt.

[jnantz]

kerry -

i used to have a military ( air signal corps ) wollensak 90mm purple dot in a rapax shutter.
at one point i showed it to a guy i knew in boston who was a lens fanatic and he suggested that
the yellow-purple dot system wollensak used signified different coatings they put on the lens.
yellow dot is better than no dot, and purple dot suggested that the lens was apo-chromatic and both a yellow and purple dot meant that
it was the best of all lenses or something similar to that. i have asked others over the years questions regarding the colored dot system, and their answers were more in the line of " they are all the same lens, and it was just a marketing tool wollensak
used to signify newer lenses ... "
i am not sure if the dots mean a better coating, although i would imagine if it is a newer lens the coating process would be improved from earlier coatings.

-john

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Paul,

Thanks for the data on the alpha-numeric serial numbers. It certainly makes sense. So, what about the numeric-only serial numbers? Do lenses with numbers only in the serial number pre-date lenses with ALL serial numbers starting with a letter? If that's the case, my lens in the Rapax shutter would be earlier than the example in Alphax shutter. As I said, my 1954 catalog has several photos of lenses baring both serial number types.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Mark,

I knew that Raptar was the trademark successor to Velostigmat, but I didn't know the details of the contest. Thanks for providing that interesting tidbit of trivia. Gee, I wonder if there were any Velosi-Raptar transition lenses.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

John,

I've also heard different explanations for the use of colored dots on the Wollensak and Bausch & Lomb lenses. I was once told that one of the dots (magenta, I believe) on a B&L lens meant it was color-corrected and the other dot (goldenrod) meant it was coated. The dots must have had some significance, but they may have mainly been used for marketing purposes. Perhaps they followed the lead of their other American competitor, Goerz Am. Optical and used the colored dots to enhance the reputation of their products without really making any significant design changes.

Kerry

[Dan Fromm]

Paul Fitzgerald presented a clue, perhaps, based on the alphabetic character at the start of some Wollensak lenses' serial numbers. He also gave examples that place prefixes "A" in 1953-4 and "C" in 1956.

It all seems so plausible.

But I have three Enlarging Pro Raptars whose s/ns start with "D" and a Pro Raptar taking lens whose s/n starts with "E". 1957 and 1958, by Paul's logic. This doesn't seem possible, since all of these lenses are 6/4 plasmat types and the Pro Raptars are widely claimed to have been Wollensak's last gasp response to similar german lenses.

And Wollensak made lenses at least into the late 1960s; Kingslake (see http://www.uofr.net/~ardavis/history/kingslake.html ) says Wollensak closed down in 1972. So where's a lens with serial number "F" or even "S"?

Les Newcomer has been writing on a book about selected Graflex products for ages. He denies the existence of a relationship between Wollensak lenses' serial numbers and manufacturing dates.

Cheers,

Dan

[tim atherton]

FWIW Kerry, here's mine

Wollensak 6¼” (159mm) f12.5 Anastigmat Extreme W.A. Serial Number 810972 Rapax Synchromatic Shutter

also has the Wocoted" as designated by the trademark big "C" surrounding a smaller "W".

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Dan,

Well, heck! If only it were as logical as a simple alphabetic code. Other than a few of the Goerz lenses made during the transition period, Schneider has been using the same sequential serial numbering scheme since 1919 - and Rodenstock even longer (since at least 1910). Other than Goerz (which started as a German company), all the other American lens manufacturers seemed to change serial numbering schemes mid-stream at some point during the 1940s. Kodak changed to their CAMEROSITY based system (but at least had the good sense to provide us with a decoder keyword). Bausch & Lomb and Wollensak both changed, too. Problem is they didn't provide a decoder key to help us figure out how old our lenses are.

Any idea if the two Wollensak serial numbering schemes co-existed? Perhaps Les Newcomer has some insight? Both styles of serial numbers are clearly shown in my 1954 Wollensak catalog, but that doesn't necessarily mean the lenses shown inthe pictures were all made in 1954. Some could have been older stock product photos.

I also know Wollensak made a lot of lenses for the military, and they were an OEM producer of lenses for Graphlex, and possibly others. Perhaps different serial number sequences were used for different customers? Or perhaps there is absolutely no rhyme or reason to Wollensak serial numbers and the seach for an answer is futile.

Kerry

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

I have a Wolly Varium and Vitax from the 1920 or 30s which came in no. 5 Studio shutters. The serial number on the Varium's barrel is higher (by ~3,000) than that of the Vitax, however the Studio Shutter on the Vitax is higher (by ~200) than that of the Varium. There are of course many explanations for why this might be. Mine has always been that there is no correspondence, at least in the early years.

[Dan Fromm]

Kerry, the last time I checked with Les he was adamant that Wolly serial numbers couldn't be decoded. Its been a while since we exchanged e-mails, so I'll bug him to see if he knows more than he used to.

After I had three Enlarging Pro Raptars s/n D and one taking Pro Raptar s/n E in hand, I surmised that perhaps D and E referred to design families.

Sort of like Elcan serial numbers, which have the form nnn-nnnn, with the first digits identifying the design, the last four identifying the lens, and the last four running sequentially from start to end of production. My Elcans' serial numbers are consistent with those of other Elcans I've seen, and Leitz Canada and sucessors probably never did make 10,000 examples of their aerial camera lenses.

Anyway, now my bubble is burst too.

Cheers,

Dan

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Hi there,

Lets get silly

Vitax 13 in #361X

Vitax 10in #474X

Vitax 16in #481X

Velostigmat Series I Optimo 'pattent appld. for' #883x

Velo Series II Optimo pat. June 14,1910 #1921X

Velo Series II Optimo newer style #13919X

Velo Series Ia Triple Conv. Auto shutter pat Aug 13, 1912 #18269X

Velo Series II adjustable soft focus old style studio shutter #1574x

velo SeriesII adjustable soft focus newer barrel #23813X (1920s?)

velo SeriesII barrel #24546x(1920s?)

veo SerieII barrel #24438x(1920s?)

velo Series II alphax #48160X (latest Velo. I have)

raptar rapax shutter purple logo #56319X

raptar alphax shutter purple logo #55795x

a lovely collection of raptars with #A, B, C, D, E but I have never seen a #F, G, ect. on Wollensak lenses, they used #Gxxxx on Optars for Graflex. I really do think they just ran their numbers in sequence since they started.

The plot thickens!!!

[Chauncey Walden]

Kerry, the pages I copied from the Wollensak lens book (sorry I don't know the publication date) show lenses all having unlettered numbers in the 8xx,xxx range and Rapax shutters. The listing for the 159 is as the f/9.5 version. My 159 is an f/12.5 569,xxx in a Rapax.

[Dan Fromm]

Velostigmat Ser. II 3"/4.5 452779, uncoated, in a tiny Rapax.

The rest are coated, including the TeleOptar that bears no mark (Wolly or Graflex) that can be interpreted as "this here lens is coated." All lenses in barrel unless noted otherwise.

50/4.5 Micro Raptar 729528

Graflex TeleOptar 250/5.6 753205, in Graphex

65/6.8 Raptar 814868, in Rapax

5 3/8" (135 mm)/5.6 Enlarging Pro Raptar D10015

2" (50 mm)/4 EPR D42292

4"/5.6 EPR D58026, no mention of metric units

160/5.6 Pro Raptar E56542 , in blue-faced Rapax

All mine at one time, most still here. The TeleOptar will go to eBay one of these days.

I'll entertain cock-eyed theories. It will take a lot of effort to convince me that there's just one series, though.

Cheers,

Dan

[Brian Ellis]

The 159 lens was sold in both coated and uncoated versions. The term "Velostigmat" was used for the uncoated lenses, "Raptar" signified the coated version. At least that's my understanding though I forget where I heard it. I've owned two of the F9.5 versions of the 159 Wollensak, both of mine were uncoated Velostigmats designeated as "Series IIIA." I have no idea how to date these things but both of mine were fine for contact prints (and try finding any other lens in the 150mm range that comes in a shutter, covers 8x10, and sells for about $200: - ))

[David G. Gagnon]

Kerry,

Here is what mine is.

Wollensak Anast. Extreme W.A. 6 1/4" (159mm) f 12.5 Serial No. 9565xx in Alphax Synchromatic
shutter. I'm sorry, but I can't say what year it was made.

DG

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

The 159 lens was sold in both coated and uncoated versions. The term "Velostigmat" was used for the uncoated lenses, "Raptar" signified the coated version.

So, what about Wollensak lenses that are labeled neither Velostigmat nor Raptar? The 159mm I just bought, and the other one mentioned above are both coated (and bear the "Wocoted" symbol), but are both called simply "Anastigmat Extreme W.A.". I have seen several other contemporary Wollensak lenses that carry the Raptar trade name (including the 90mm and 108mm f6.8 Wide Angles), but I don't recall ever seeing a 159mm f12.5 Extreme W.A. labeled as a Raptar.

Kerry

[Arne Croell]

2 more datapoints:

Uncoated "8x10 Series EX.W.A. f/12.5 61/4" focus" in Alphax serial no. 307984

coated 210mm f/5.6 Pro Raptar in blue Rapax, serial no. E56431

[Keith Pitman]

Here's another one:

6 1/4" (159MM) f 9.5 C/W symbol Raptar Wide Angle No. C20333 in Rapax.

Interesting crime story developing.

[Jon Wilson]

Here is another one>

Wollensak Velostigmat Wide Angle Ser. III f9.5 8x10 6 1/4" Focus
SN 2611xx in a Betax No. 3 shutter. Can't tell much from the pat. number, but the shutter has been stamped with Pat. Nov. 21, 1922. It is an uncoated lens.

BTW, this lens came without a retaining ring; does anyone know where I can get one?

Thanks. JON

[Keith Pitman]

I have a copy of a 1920 Wollensak catatog that lists "The Series III Wide Angle Velostigmat F:9.5" The text begins, "Generally speaking, no photographer's equipment--especially that of the commercial man--is complete without a wide angle lens."

It lists four lenses in this series. Number 5 is listed for 8x10, focal length of 6.25 inches, working aperture of 5/8 inch, in barrel for $49.50, and in an Optimo shutter for $61.00.

Elsewhere, is listed an f16 Extreme Wide Angle. No f12.5 in that day apparently.

Finally, they state in the beginning, "Everything entering into the manufacture of Wollensak products is of American origin, except French glass, which we have found preferable for certain high-grade lenses."

No information on serial numbers.

[Kevin Crisp]

And more data: "Anastigmat Extreme W. A." f:12.5 version, purple Wolcoat symbol but no dots, mounted in an Alphax shutter, lens serial number is 956590.

[Mark Sawyer]

Okay, you guys have dragged me into this...

I have the lowest # 6 1/4" Wollensak posted yet, I think. The engraving in its entirety, (sorry `bout the caps, but that's how it's written on the rim,) reads:

"WOLLENSAK 8x10 SERIES IIIA EX.W.A. f12.5 6 1/4" FOCUS No 12252."

It's uncoated in a Pi-ALPHAX shutter, which may not be original, as the aperture and shutter speed scales are stick-ons.

Neat little lens. I've wanted a coated version, but since you guys started talking about them the price has shot up. (Now in the $300-$400 range.) Ended up going with a 150mm GRII instead. I think the discussions here affect ebay prices. (Maybe in the future when I see a lens I want I'll post something here about what turds they are...)

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I've wanted a coated version, but since you guys started talking about them the price has shot up. (Now in the $300-$400 range.)

Mark,

I know you were kidding (I think). The two auctions I mentioned above ended before I started this thread. So, no influence on the final prices. In addition to demand, I think the condition of those two examples had a lot to do with the prices the fetched. Still, $332.75 for an 8x10 wide angle, in shutter, in unused condition is a pretty good deal. The shutter does need a CLA, but the total cost will still be under $400.

BTW, my lens arrived today. It was a little bit dusty, but I gave it a good cleaning and it really does sparkle like new. I'll try to post a jpeg or two this weekend.

Kerry

[tim atherton]

"I've wanted a coated version, but since you guys started talking about them the price has shot up. (Now in the $300-$400 range.)
Mark,

I know you were kidding (I think). "

Actualy, I have a feeling previous discussions on here may have pushed up the prices of the Wolly 159's

I bid on several two or three years ago (finally getting one at a decent price) - all in decent condition - and all went for around 175.00 250.00 max

I'm pretty sure our discussions of the Kowa 210's etc have driven their price up... (the discussions here have even been quoted in some ebay ads)

So yep, maybe it's time to keep quiet and/or trash that obscure lens you are looking for.

I hear the 180mm f9 carl zeiss dagor is a real dog - best use for them is as a doorstop. Apparently they made the elements out of old lager bottles as a post-war cost saving measure... :-)

[Mark Sawyer]

Ah, but that I were kidding, Tim; a nice-sounding coated yellow-dot went on March 8 for $394.99, (ebay item #3879200323). Hopefully just another ebay anomally.

Yeah, I've heard about those 180mm Zeiss Dagors being dogs too; I think they're a recognized breed with the American Kennel Club. (There, now you say something bad about the 12" Dagor...)

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Ah, but that I were kidding, Tim; a nice-sounding coated yellow-dot went on March 8 for $394.99, (ebay item #3879200323). Hopefully just another ebay anomally.

Mark,

That's the lens I referenced in my original post. That auction ended a few hours before I started this thread (I purposely waited for the acution to close before posting). So, this discussion had nothing to do with the final bid price on that particular lens.

While merely mentioning something in a discussion group may have an effect on prices on eBay, I started this thread with the intent of trying to determine the age, not the value, of my lenses. I haven't commented on the performance, nor made other comments about the quality of these lenses. I'm just looking for clues in determining the approximate age of these lenses. Selling prices are determined by the market. On an open auction site like eBay, the prices are generally a direct reflection of what people are willing to pay. Repeated glowing recommendations may drive up the demand, but that hasn't happened in this thread. I suspect there are other forces at work here.

First, prices for photo gear on eBay usually peak about this time of year. People who shoot outdoors are getting ready for Spring and Summer trips. And many people are also spending their tax returns on the goodies they put off buying all winter. More buyers = higher prices.

Price is also a reflection of condition. The two lenses linked above were in exceptional condition - much better than average. Finally, there is supply. As near as I can tell, 159mm f12.5 Extreme Wide Angle was made for more than 50 years. There seems to be a steady flow of used lens on the market. It seems like there's always one or two up for bid on eBay. It certainly isn't anywhere near as rare as the 18cm f9 Zeiss Dagor. In terms of availability, it seems to be in about the same ballpark as the 165mm f6.8 Angulon and the 190mm f6.3 WF Ektar. Not something likely to be in stock at your corner camera camera store, but certainly not rare by any stretch of the imagination.

Of course, I do plan to test the two Wollensak 159mm f12.5 Extreme Wide Angles I have, along with a 150mm f6.8 APO Kyvytar, 150mm f9 Computar, 150mm f9 Graphic-Kowa and a coulple more compact 150s capable of covering 5x7 (and hopefully 4x10). At some point, I'll probably publish the results - and that may, or may not, cause a mometary blip in demand. Of course, that blip may be up or down, depending on the results. If they all turn out to be dogs, you might be able to pick one up for a song.

I have noticed the prices on the 210mm and longer Computars and Graphic Kowas going up. There aren't a lot of alternatives for ULF shooters. Prices on the 150mm f9 Computars and Graphic-Kowas seem to be much lower and more stable. Neither of these cover 8x10, and there are plenty of other 150s for the 4x5 and 5x7 shooter. Again, it all comes down to supply and demand.

Kerry

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Elsewhere, is listed an f16 Extreme Wide Angle. No f12.5 in that day apparently.

Keith,

Intersting data. The first 8x10 lens I ever owned was an old f12.5 Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle. I sold the lens about 10 years ago, and doubt if I can find the serial number. I'm nearly 100% sure that it pre-dated your 1920 catalog. It the cells were lacquered brass, it was in an ancient Regno shutter (that actually worked) and no focal length was marked on the lens - it just said 8x10 Extreme Wide Angle. If I had to guess, I'd estimate it was made between 1905 and 1915.

Oddly enough, the f12.5 version of the 6¼" Wollensak Ext. WA is also absent from my 1954 catalog. I find that strange, as that seems to be right smack in the middle of Wollensak's peak of production. It's listed in earlier and later catalogs, but not in the 1954 publication. Maybe they were pushing the more expensive f9.5 version at that time.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

OK, here's a couple pictures of my two Wollensak 6¼" (159mm) f12.5 Ext. WA lenses.

Here's the new one (link to the eBay auction in my original post). It just arrived yesterday. It's in a non-synch Rapax shutter, and is in extremely fine condition. It was old stock from a camera store, and apparently, I am the original owner. It shows minor signs of being handled over the years, but was never sold until I bought it off eBay. The shutter needs a CLA. Once that's done. I'll give it a try.

http://www.thalmann.com/Ebay/Wollensak_ExtWA_736166.jpg

Here's' a photo of it next to my "older" sample. Although the shutter on the one on the right shows more signs of use, the glass is perfect. For those concerned about prices, I got that one late last Fall on eBay, I'd have to look up the exact price, but I know it was well below $300, perhaps even less than $250. The shutter just got back from a CLA, and I plan to shoot with this one in the next couple of weeks. It's in a Rapax Synchromatic shutter.

http://www.thalmann.com/Ebay/Pair_of_Wollies.jpg

It's a bit hard to tell due to a hot spot in the photo, but the serial number is 703227. The one on the left should be readable and is 736166.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

I'd have to look up the exact price, but I know it was well below $300, perhaps even less than $250.

OK, I just looked it up. I paid $151.50 for the lens on the right. So, there are still bargains to be had if you're patient. The shutter would occasionally drag on the slow speeds. I just sent it out for a CLA ($45.00), and now it purrs like new.

Kerry

[Mark Sawyer]

Kerry- I'm looking forward to seeing the results of your tests! In retrospect, $400 isn't bad for a really nice 8x10 lens, especially if it can let you make images that match your vision. (I'm very fond of my old uncoated one.) I think some of us, myself included, get too caught up in prices just because ebay is such a fun place to look for lenses which run from the modern and mainstream to the antique, rare, and outright bizarre.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Mark,

$400 is definitely on the high end for these lenses. But still, for a coated lens in a functional shutter that covers 8x10, it's not outrageous. Typical samples (used, but still very usable) usually sell for between $250 and $300. The $151.50 I paid for my first one was lower than average and $394.99 is definitely higher than average. So, we have examples at both extremes.

It's funny, I bought that one for $151.50 after losing out on one that Tim bought for about $100 more. Sometimes you just get lucky.

I plan to shoot 4x10 color transparencies, and was looking for the "best" compact wide angle in the 150mm range. I know the Wolly will cover with room to spare. Coverage guesstimates on the 150mm Kyvytar/Compurat/Graphic-Kowa are all over the map, but 290mm seems to be the most common claim. When I get around to it, I plan to shoot all three, as well as a 150mm G Claron, 150mm Germinar-W and 150mm APO-Sironar-S on 8x10 to see just how much they cover. Other than the Wolly, I doubt if any of these will hit the corners of 8x10, but they should all either cover 4x10, or come pretty close. The results of the tests will also be of interest to 5x7 shooters as all these lenses will cover 5x7 with varying degrees of movements.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

It's funny, I bought that one for $151.50 after losing out on one that Tim bought for about $100 more. Sometimes you just get lucky.

Minor correction - I actually out bid Tim on that oher lens with the higher price, but did not meet the seller's reserve. Then a couple weeks later, I won this one at $151.50.

Kerry

[tim atherton]

And just after Kerry outbid me I found a pristine one for $131.50...

(knew I kept all those old emails for a purpose!)

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Tim,

Now that we have our Wollies, we should stop mentioning the low prices we paid or we might drive the prices down and ruin our wise investments (aka: lucky deals). Afterall, I have two of these guys and will likely sell one at some time in the future. I'd sure rather get $394.99 for it than $131.50.

Kerry

[Mark Sawyer]

Okay, we're talking way too much about prices, but I just noticed Kerry's lens had no yellow dot and did some checking... Kerry, you bought yours new-in-the-box for $332.75 on March 3. The used-with-no-box-but-a-cute-little-yellow-dot went for $394.99 0n March 8.

Guess I can understand the price difference, though. I can't make great art without dots on my lens...

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Mark,

The curious yellow dot, as well as the completely different serial number styles, is what prompted my initial post. As both lenses appear to be roughly the same age (1955 plus/minus 10 years), I was baffled by the differences, and if there is any signifcance to them. While there's been quite a bit of sharing of serial number data in this thread, I still don't know (for sure) which lens is newer or older and why one bears a yellow dot and the other doesn't.

For the sake of future readers, I got permission from the seller of the yellow dot lens to post his photo of that lens in this thread.

http://www.thalmann.com/Ebay/Wollensak_ExtWA_A84258JPG.JPG

There, now we have photos of samples with both serial numbering sequences.

Kerry

[Mark Sawyer]

Sorry, all; I got so involved in the later part of this thread that I forgot the details of the early part. Perhaps someone may still come forward with a solution to the mystery of the dots.

[Arne Croell]

Ok, after rereading this thread, another speculation:

I recognized that all the numbers seem to have 6 digits or less (if I count the letters as one digit) and the highest number without letters was 9xxxxx. Maybe for some reason Wollensak did not want to/could not engrave more than six digits and once they reached 999999 they decided to use the alphabet letters for the first significant position? Each letter would give them another 100000 units.

If no letters above E are in existence, that would mean that they produced about 500000 units after the switch to letters...

Reasons for engraving only six letters? I don't know, but can again speculate:

1. No more room on some of the smaller mounts (actually the 159mm EX.W.A. is a good example), at least not without changing font size

2. Limitations of the engraving machine(s)

3. Engraving 7 digits takes longer than engraving 6, reducing productivity (this was before CNC machines, so some labor costs were involved).

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Arne,

I also wondered if the Wollensak serial numbers were merely a simple hexadecimal sequence (or more accurately an aphanumeric sequence - it looks like they went out of business before they got to "F"). Does anyone see any data in this thread that would disprove Arne's hypothesis? It certianly makes sense that the Pro Raptars would have the highest serial numbers (starting with D and E). The one exception would be the "G" series lenses Wollensak made for Graflex.

There is also quite a bit of variation in serial numbers for the post-WWII "Wocoted" 159mm Extreme Wide Angles mentioned in this thread. I seem to have the two lowest serial number Wocoted samples (703227 and 736166) mentioned. We also have examples starting with 8xxxxx, 9xxxxx, Axxxxx and Cxxxxx (an f9.5 sample). These lenses were all likely made during Wollensak's peak production period (1945 - 1960). So, if the serial numbers are simply sequential, it would make sense that they would have gone through a wide range of numbers during this time period.

Kerry

[Chauncey Walden]

Kerry,

My 569,xxx f/12.5 is Wocoated. FWIW, I also have a 330 triple convertible with a B prefix number (and no dots) in its original leather covered box. I just went searching in the box to see if perchance there was a date clue. On the back of the cloth covered recessed board that centers the lens was a glued in square piece of newspaper that was probably used to keep the fresh glue from sticking to whatever was below. Anyway, it was part of a sports page from a Buffalo, New York, paper. It had the results of a Rams vs Lions game and an October 31 date. I checked the series record and the score matched the date in 1954.

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

Chauncey,

Great bit of detective work. So, if we make a fewl assumptions, perhaps we can reach some tentative conclusions.

First, assume the Wollensak serial numbers are sequential and cover all lens products (this is consistant with other manufacturers of the day - Goerz, Schneider, Rodenstock and Zeiss).

Second, assume no serial numbers with more than six digits, with the first digit ranging from 1-9 followed by A-E (where A is equivalent to 10xxxxx, B=11xxxxx, C=12xxxxx, D=13xxxxx and E=14xxxxx).

So far, the lowest serial number we have on a "Wocoated" lens starts with 5xxxxx. We also know that the "Wocoted" (big "C" surounding smaller "W") was first used in 1945. The lens on the cover of my April 1, 1954 catalog starts with Axxxxx. Thanks to Chauncy's detective work, we know that a lens starting with Bxxxxx dates to late 1954. And, a lens dated July, 1956 starts with Cxxxxx. We also have some later Pro Raptars (both taking and enlarging) with Dxxxxx and Exxxxx serial numbers. While this limited data set doesn't prove the assumptions I've made, or Arne's hypothesis, the data is consistent with the assumptions and the theory.

So, just in rough numbers, if we use 5xxxxx = 1945 and Bxxxxx=1954, it looks like Wollensak (in theory) made about 600,000 lenses over than nine year period. Which equals roughly 66,667 lenses per year. Just for the sake of comparison, Rodenstock made 1,000,00 over that same nine year period and Schneider made slightly over 2,000,000 lenses during that time period. So, the 600,000 total production number for Wollensak lenses for that particular nine year period certainly seems within the realm of possibility.

If the assumptions are valid and the theory holds, that would mean my two 159mm f12.5 Extreme Wide Angles date to approximately early 1948 (serial number 703227) and mid-1948 (serial number 736166). It would also date the "Yellow Dot" lens (serial number A84258) pictured to approximately late 1953 or early 1954. Note, even if the assumptions are true, these dates are still approximations assuming a consistent yearly rate of production. The actual dates, given the assumptions are true, are likely to be plus/minus 1 year).

Again, this is based on assumptions and theory, but the conclusions are consistent with the limted set of known data.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

P.S. Even if my above assumptions are correct, the data set I used only covers the years 1945 - 1954. The approximate yearly production number of 66,667 lenses per year can probably be extended out another couple years, but by the late 1950s, it appears Wollensak began to lose market share. Certainly by the mid-1960s, their yearly production volume had been reduced to a fraction of what it was during Wollensak's peak from the mid-1940s to the mid-1950s. And by the end of 1972, their yearly production had dropped to 0 units. Even if the assumptions are true, we need more data to generate approximate production dates for Wollensak lenses made after about 1956 or 1957.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

One additional tidbit of somewhat related trivia. The first Goerz Red Dot Artar was made in October of 1953. Based on the above assumptions, the Yellow Dot 159mm Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle with serial number A84258 would have been made not too long after that (late 1953 or early 1954). Perhaps this was Wollensak's way of keeping up with the Joneses (or Goerzes) and using colored dots in the marketing of their large format lenses.

Kerry

[Dan Fromm]

Um, Kerry, about colored dots. They appear, sometimes and for no apparent reason, on 7"/2.5 Aero Ektars. Some of the lenses have more than one dot. Those dots have also given rise to much fanciful speculation.

Yours in confusion,

Dan

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

They appear, sometimes and for no apparent reason

In other words, "marketing purposes". Seriously, I do think the apearance of these colored dots on lenses almost always was the result of some new marketing campaign. Sometimes, the dots may actually hve a specific meaning (coated, color corrected, etc.), but other times I think they were just used by manufacturers to distinguish their latest and greatest products - and to shame the owners of dotless lenses into upgrading.

Kerry

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

OK, I did a bit more detective work last night to try to disprove the assumptions above about Wollensak serial numbers. I did eBay seaches on "Wollensak lens" for both current and completed auctions. After wading through over 300 eBay listings, I did not find one example that would void the assumptions made in my post with timestamp 2005-03-14 13:18:54. Of course, many of the listings did not have photos that clearly showed the serial numbers, but of those that did:

There were a great number of Wollensak lenses with serial numbers starting with 1xxxxx, 2xxxxx, 3xxxxx and especially 4xxxxx. None were coated, none bore the Wocoted symbol, and none were labeled Raptar. I think it's pretty safe to say these were all made prior to 1945.

I did not find any Wollensak lenses with serial numbers starting with 5xxxxx or 6xxxxx.

There were a lot with serial numbers starting with 7xxxxx, 8xxxxx and 9xxxxx, and Axxxxx. All were coated and clearly displayed the Wocoted symbol. Most, but not all, carried the Raptar trade name. None were labeled Velostigmat. These were all clearly post-1945 production.

There were also many obviously later products with serial number starting with Bxxxxx, Cxxxxx, Dxxxxx and Exxxxx. These mostly consisted of Pro Raptar enlarging lenses and oscilloscpoe lenses, along with a couple Graphic Raptar copy (process) lenses.

Other than one Graflex lens that started with Gxxxxx, there were no lenses listed with a serial number above Exxxxx.

While it does not prove my assumptions and Arne's theory beyond a shadow of a doubt, the data remains consistent with the theory and assumptions. The Wollensak serial numbers appear to be sequential and follow the 1xxxxx - Exxxxx pattern Arne described above.

The one thing I did disprove, was my "Yellow Dot" theory. I only found two more lenses carrying "Yellow Dots". One of those (a current listing) was a little 90mm f6.8 Raptar Wide Angle that was made ofr the US Army and is clearly engraved "SIGNAL CORPS". It has the Wocoated symbol, the infamous "Yellow Dot, and I cant quite make out all six digits of the serial number, but the first is the letter "C". This example fits in nicely with my previous hypothesis that the Wollesak Yellow Dot was a reaction to Goerz starting to label their APO Artars with a Red Dot. The second example, a completed auction, shoots that whole theory right out of the water. The exact engraving on the lens reads:

WOLLENSAK VELOSTIGMAT 9½" FOCUS SERIES II f4.5 No. 308685

And there is a bright Yellow Dot betwen the serial number and the word WOLLENSAK.

This is an uncoated Velostigmat that obviously dates before 1945 and was made several years (likely 10 - 20) before the first Goerz Red Dot Artar.

So, the meaning of the Yellow Dot remains a mystery. Did it signify a lens made for the military? Was it a way for Wollensak to identify their "best" lenses? Who knows. At this point I'm willing to accept Dan's assertion "about colored dots. They appear, sometimes and for no apparent reason".

Kerry

[Blaine Baker]

Kerry-

The following is from my lens:

-LENS: WOLLENSAK 6 1/4" (159MM) f/12.5 (W VELOSTIGMAT EXTREME W.A. NO 569300

- SHUTTER: APLHAX WOLLENSAK ROCHESTER U.S.A.

Comments: The (W on my lens is yellow whereas the rest of the printing is white. "ALPHAX" is in caps and is red.

Blaine

[Chauncey Walden]

Kerry,
About the yellow dot. I just ran across my Wollensak/Graflex 15 inch TeleOptar which was definitely a military lens. It is uncoated, serial 428,xxx, and has the yellow dot. Yellow dot = military? Anyone have something to prove otherwise?

[Kerry L. Thalmann]

LENS: WOLLENSAK 6 1/4" (159MM) f/12.5 (W VELOSTIGMAT EXTREME W.A. NO 569300

Blaine,

Your lens appears to be a "transition" model that may help us further nail down the Wollensak serial number puzzle. According to Paul (and I've read this elsewhere, too), Wollensak began using the Wocoted symbol in 1945. The contest to come up with a new trade name to replace Velostigmat was held during 1945. I have read elsewhere that Wollensak began using the trade name Raptar (the contest winner) at the start of 1946. So, there is some pretty strong circumstantial evidence that your Wocoted Velostigmat with serial number 569300 was made during 1945 - after the introduction of the Wocoted symbol, but prior to the use of the Raptar trade name (or more accurately, after the discontinuation of the use of Velostigmat trade name - I've never seen a 6¼" (159mm) f12.5 Extreme WA that carried the Raptar name).

Keep 'em coming guys. I feel like we should call PBS and see if they would cover this topic on the "History Dectives". Right now we're just collecting data and clues and trying to see how it fits with our assumptions, theories and hypotheses , but without any first-hand knowledge from any former Wollensak employees, or better still, company records, it's the best we can do. While we haven't exactly proven anything beyond a doubt, thanks to eveyone's contributions, I feel like I know a lot more about Wollensak lenses than when I started this thread eight days ago. So, please, if anyone finds any additional data or relevant information, please post it here and helps us refine, prove, or even disprove, our theories and assumptions.

Thanks,
Kerry

[tim atherton]

Kerry,

In my clearing up the office to move (...) I came across a Wolly catalogue #41 - no date

No visible serial numbers on any of the lenses, but also no visible dots (you can only see about half the front of each lens illustrated) and no "W" symbols.

Lens in question listed as a Wollensak Extreme Wide Angle (shortened to EX. W.A. on the lens itself) Series IIIa #5 f12.5 (equivelant focal length 6/14")

Available in Barrel $40.00 and in a Betax Shutter for $46.00...

Also in the catalogue:

Velostigmat Triple Convertables,

Velostigmat Series II 4.5's

Velostigmat Series III 9.5 "Fast Wide Angles"

Verito diffused's, Voltas etc etc

[tim atherton]

I'd add, my little Wollensak 6¼” (159mm) f12.5 Anastigmat Extreme W.A. - while not my best lens for 8x10 is a darned good lens for the price and size. (favourite lens is probably the Fuji 250mm)

It's suprisingly contrasty (almost too much so) and works well for colour. I was also going to say it isn't quite the sharpest (that would be the Kowa 210mm) - but I just remembered that one of the prints in my show is a 40"x50" enlargement from a drum scan of an Astia 8x10 transparency shot with this lens - and it's certainly sharp enough for that.

The other advantage is the size - I have a 165mm Super Angulon - but unless I really know I'm going to use it (say for architecture) I just don't take it. Whereas the Wolly just lives in my camera bag and you hardly notice it - so it gets fairly frequent use.

I think if I just did B&W I might go for something "smoother and cremieer" like a similar focal length Dagor - but as I do about 75% colour to B&W, this does for now.

[Michael S. Briggs]

Great deductions on the Wollensak serial numbers!





I've made a small study of the Aero-Ektars. For those lenses, we know the serial number code, but the dots, as mentioned by Dan, are a big mystery. The 7" f2.5 Aero-Ektars were all made in WWII. Most have no dot, many have a yellow dot, and other colors are reported. A photo.net thread has a photo of one with a green dot: http://www.photo.net/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg?msg_id=009mU2.





These dots meant something, at least originally. Kodak wasn't putting them on WWII military lenses as a marketing ploy, or just for fun. Kelly Flanigan's theory (above photo.net thread) is that the dots indicate the actual manufacturer, which he says was sometimes not Kodak despite the Kodak label. I'm not convinced, but it's possible for a war in which winning took precedence over private property rights. Colored dots may have become a marketing ploy years later.





At least for their probably original use on military lenses, the color code of dots might be the same independent of manufacturer.

[Arne Croell]

Resurrecting this thread with a related question: I recently bought a 90mm Raptar Extreme wide angle. The inscription has the purple "Wocoating" symbol and reads: "Raptar Extreme W.A. No 697523N Wollensak 3 1/2" (90mm) f/12.5". Everything is consistent with the theory above, pointing to a manufacturing date around late 1947. But - what does the "N" in the serial number mean? Any ideas?

[Lens Boards]

I have a coated Velostigmat Serial number
499171 that has the circle W symbol for
Wo-Coating. It's a 101mm in a non synch
rapax. I also have copies of the Trademarks
Raptar and Velostigmat with dates of
first usage listed. I'll post them tommorow
sometime.

[rvhalejr]

Fact is often stranger than fiction.

There is one hard piece of evidence that the Gold (or Yellow) Dot was placed on the sharpest APO lens of its time. Extremely accurate color alignment at a time when color film was all but not even in existence. In a strange twist of fate lenses would have captured the damage to the Goerz factory after being bombed by the allies during WWII.

"USAAF WWII K-24 AERIAL CAMERA" ebay item #7603936387 used in B17's and B25's

The picture CAM20-1.jpeg shows the business end of the Kodak Areo-Ektar 7inch f/2.5 5x5 which rode in the belly of the bombers where no-one (except maybe for the photographers taking it in and out) would see it.

The pedigree of this lens is spelled out at www.91stbombgroup.com/myst21.html and is not for the faint of heart ("Photos Win Wars" and Photographers are often casualties).

The picture from this item has been saved off line (but hopefully others will find examples).

On the other hand there is no doubt that the "APO" , "Yellow Dot" and other designations have been and persist even today in being not much more than marketing creations. To make matters worse some OEMs seem to have made no two lenses alike even though the markings are identical.

Not only do we (as investigators) need to be aware of marketing misdirection there is no evidence to indicate that Aerial Ektars with the Gold Dot were any different than those without.

It should be safe to assume that the second most important optical system on those bombers (after the Norden Bomb Sights) were the cameras set up and used by the photo units to evaluate mission effectiveness. As such, by the end of the war, they were probably pretty darn good.

We need to also keep in mind that just because the Gold Dots were on the victorious side does not make them any better (or worse for that matter) than those on the Axis side.

Only a fair and impartial scientific evaluation can give us technical information. Qualitative information is just (or maybe even more) important but thats where forums like this one come into it's own.

Best Regards.

[Ernest Purdum]

For whatever it may be worth, my f9.5 is labeled "Anastigmat Wide Angle" (no longer "Exterme", I guess) and carries a yellow dot. It is Serial 999099.

[cpeterson]

Not to resurrect a dead thread, but I found it when trying to date a lens I just purchased.

Here's mine, as another point of reference:

Wollensak Series IA Velostigmat 8 3/4" f/7.7 Triple Convertible, serial #244951. Uncoated, mounted in a frail Betax #3 shutter. Also, there are bubbles in the glass. Badges of quality, so I hear!

The seller, who claims to have restored the lens, can't date it further back than pre-war, but speculated 1930's.

Of particular interest to me is the catalog Tim Atherton mentioned a few posts above, because of the explicit mention of the triple convertible series. It's a pity there's no date on the catalog. In all my googlings I've found just a handful of references to wollensak TC's and no mention at all of the 8 3/4" version, so determining the date of the catalog might yield a clue.

At any rate, many, many thanks to those who have contributed to this thread.

[Paul Fitzgerald]

Hi there,

Just got a .pdf file of a 1922 Wollensak catalog, listed were:

Series I = f/6.3 = triple conv.
Series II = f/4.5
Series III = f/9.5 = 90%
Series IIIa = f/12.5 = 100%
Series IV= f/6.3
Series V = f/7.5
Verito = f/4
Vitax = f/3.8
Vesta = f/5 = conv.
Versar = f/6 = enlarging
Voltas = f/8 = triple conv.

Betax, Deltax, Gammax, Studio and Optimo shutters, no Alphax or Rapax yet.

No serial numbers are to be seen, sorry.

The hunt continues.

[Bart Nadeau_6607]

I'd like to weigh in on the Wollensak serial number question.
I have two Wollensak 7 1/2" (190mm) f4.5 coated Raptars. One, mounted in a chrome Alphax #3 x synced shutter is s/n No. D37036. The other, in a barrel, is s/n No.B65588. I also have a 3 1/2" (90mm) Graflex Optar W.A. f6.8 No.G32349N in a Graflex shutter, both made by Wollensak.


There must be a key somewhere.

Bart

[Jim Noel]

Google "Camera eccentric".
He lists several old wollensak catalogs in pdf form so you can read through them to find your item of interest.
If the lens is in a Rapax shutter, it is post WWII.
The lens was made for some time prior to the war and I have two uncoated as well as one coated in a shutter. I love these little lenses.
Jim

[Ernest Purdum]

Regarding dots, yellow and otherwise, I bought several Bausch & Lomb Altimar (WWII military aerial camera) cells. One, but one only, has a yellow dot.

Serials. I now have a 3 1/2" sample of the f12.5. It has a purple Wocoting symbol and the other markings are: Raptar Extreme W.A. No812712 Wollensak 3 1/2" (90mm) f12.5. The shutter is an Alphax.

[Jim Jones]

If it helps, my "Graflex Optar W. A. f/6.8 No. G25196N 3 1/2" (90mm)" in a "full synchromatic shutter made by Wollensak for Graflex, inc." was purchased through military surplus in 1968 for $13, recessed lens board included! No dots, and no date on the included data sheet, though. My "Wollensak 5x7 series IIIA EX.W.A.f/12.5 4 5.16 focus no. 431722" is in a slightly erratic Betax No. 2 shutter.

[Philippe Grunchec]

If it helps:

- WOLLENSAK 9" (229 MM) f/6.3 W [same beige color as the rest] SERIES IA RAPTAR N°678293: it is a n°4 (15 1/2 + 15 1/2) in a Rapax shutter;

- WOLLENSAK 13" (330 MM) f/6.8 W [red or purple] SERIES IA RAPTAR N°878286: it is a n°5a (25 1/2 + 20) in an Alphax shutter.

[domino009]

Probably a long-dead thread, but here is some more info to add to the base built in this thread:

WOLLENSAK SERIES IIIA EX. W.A. f12.5 8x10 No 12038.

It is uncoated and sits in old Betax #3 shutter. A very nice little lens. The glass is in excellent condition. Based on the thread, it is quite old. I'd have to go back and check, but this may be the oldest one listed.

[Michael Clark]

I have a Wollensack Veloatigmat Wide angle Series III 9.5 8x10 no.143243, uncoated 159mm.
Mike

[goamules]

I don't think anyone is doing anything with this Wollensak data. Not in the past 4 years since the post started. Wollensak dating is a dead issue.

Posting a lens type and it's serial number isn't going to tell anyone anything. They were in business for like 75 years....

[cowanw]

Just so as the data does not get deleted. i refer back to it regularily. and I always assume that if I do then 50 other people do to.

[goamules]

Just so as the data does not get deleted. i refer back to it regularily. and I always assume that if I do then 50 other people do to.

What data, the serial numbers of a few random Wollensaks, with only a vague, hypothetical date reference? Ok then! Now you know the serial numbers of a few people's lenses. I guess the hypothesis in the thread about certain serial numbers indicating pre WWII, and the year the Wolcoating symbol appears can give at least a date within a decade or so.



...the last time I checked with Les he was adamant that Wolly serial numbers couldn't be decoded. Its been a while since we exchanged e-mails, so I'll bug him to see if he knows more than he used to....

Maybe Dan will weigh in. It would be interesting to see a serial number table developed. But right now it looks like there will only be a few rows, and 70 years of wollensak production!

[cowanw]

Sorry. I will stop reading over that thread if you prefer.
Although I still like Kerry's post #44

[Dan Fromm]

Garrett, I don't recall anything more from Les that was useful.

I'm afraid that the relationship between Wollensak lenses' serial numbers and dates of manufacture is one of those things that are not meant to be known. Same goes for Ilex lenses; B&L lenses, Klaus Schmitt's B&L list notwithstanding; and pre-CAMEROSITY Kodak lenses.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I was born ignorant and remain ignorant about many, many things.

Cheers,

Dan

[Lifeless]

A bit late, but if it adds to the data. Wollensak Series IIIA EX. W. A. f12.5 8x10 No 10642

[Lynn Jones]

I have a couple of them and they work well. RE: Raptar=tessar Velostigmat from WWII on = 3 element Cooke type.

Lynn

[onnect17]

I bought an old folding 8x10 to shoot vertical 4x10s and this lens came with the package. I can see some separation (or glue?) near the border in the front element. The shutter seems to be a lot newer and working 1/2 stop slow.
No plans to use it, so buyers are welcome.
74092

[jcoldslabs]

Here's a coated example with a serial number in the 4xx,xxx range:

http://www.kolstad.us/ebay/WollVeloExtremeWA.jpg

Jonathan

[lenser]

You may find a resource with Seth at cameraeccentric.com. If nothing else, his infor section has several complete Wollensak catalogs that will allow you to target your dates within a few years according to which catalog it appears in.

[goamules]

You may find a resource with Seth at cameraeccentric.com. If nothing else, his infor section has several complete Wollensak catalogs that will allow you to target your dates within a few years according to which catalog it appears in.

Unless they used notional (fake) numbers in their catalog drawings (up to the 40s the catalogs used plates, not "photos"). Would they have represented a real serial number, or a higher number to brag about production? If they used a real lens and serial number, and it was from recent production it would be helpful. But in the old days up until the 1930s, artwork in catalogs was often a rough approximation of what the actual lenses looked like. I wonder how much you could trust any serial number you could read in a catalog as being representative of that year?

[Dan Fromm]

lenser, have you tried what you recommended? I just took a look at a couple of the Wolly catalogs on cameraeccentric, couldn't read a single s/n. In addition, the latest catalog posted there is dated 1950. Please do the work and report back to us.

Oh, and by the way, your approach can't be used to date, for example, my Pro Raptars, which came to market after 1950.

Garrett, a s/n in a publication whose date is known sets an upper bound on the year the s/n was engraved. The s/n can't be newer than the publication. This may, doesn't have to be, useful.

[lenser]

Dan,

If you read my post again, I think you might recognize that my suggestion was primarily to use Seth himself as the resource and that the listed catalogs might offer some information that could potentially be helpful. My experience with Seth has been that his expertise far eclipses the info in the catalogs. Having said that, yes, I have done this kind of research on his site for many items in which I have had personal interest, including four Wollensak lenses. Sometimes I have found exactly what I needed. Other times not, but all have lead me to further avenues of research and great interest in what I was exploring....thus the suggestion to check those out.

Have a nice day.

Tim

[Two23]

A few months ago I bought a 12 in f4.5 Velostigmat, Series II. Serial is 487217. Lens is uncoated, and is in Betax #5. I love this lens!. I always supposed it was from the late 20s or 30s. SO, is it a tessar type or a Cooke type?


Kent in SD

[Mark Sampson]

Kent, that lens is a Tessar formula. My first real view camera, an Ansco 8x10, had one of those on the front. Smooth and creamy tones, as long as you didn't point it toward the light. Like you I assumed that it was from the '20s or '30s. But 30 years ago, (like today), even in the city where it had been made, there was no easy way to find that information.