Freezing 4X5 film: bag the box, or just freeze it?

[TrespasserWill]

I've got two more boxes of 4X5 film than I had planned on, and I would like to know about freezing it. Should I store each bag in a zip-loc bag, or just stick each box in the freezer and take it out when I need it? I'm concerned about frost inside the box, and subsequent moisture when I thaw the film.

Thanks to all who reply.

With best regards,

Stephen

[Ari]

I refrigerate my film, but if I were to freeze it, I'd definitely use a ziplock to protect the box and contents from condensation and accidental thaws.

[Sirius Glass]

If the original package has not been opened then I just freeze it. If the original package has been opened then I put it in a Zip-Lok bag and then freeze it.

[480sparky]

If the original package has not been opened then I just freeze it. If the original package has been opened then I put it in a Zip Lok bag and then freeze it.

Not all sheet film comes sealed from the factory. Some liner bags are open on one end.

Toward that premise, I always use a freezer bag. Film's expensive enough to lose a box trying to cheap out.

[Wayne]

Pretty sure all Kodak and Ilford films are sealed though, and I've always thrown them in as is. Other brands YMMV


Not all sheet film comes sealed from the factory. Some liner bags are open on one end.

Toward that premise, I always use a freezer bag. Film's expensive enough to lose a box trying to cheap out.

[Roger Thoms]

Ziplock bags whether it's in the frig or freezer. Lost several boxes of Ilford 7x17 that was in his frig, the condensate drain go plugged and water start dripping in the frig. Film was toast by the time he discovered it.

You can buy a lot of ziplock bags for the price of a box of film or paper.

Roger

[Sirius Glass]

Not all sheet film comes sealed from the factory. Some liner bags are open on one end.

Toward that premise, I always use a freezer bag. Film's expensive enough to lose a box trying to cheap out.


Pretty sure all Kodak and Ilford films are sealed though, and I've always thrown them in as is. Other brands YMMV

I only have Kodak and Ilford sheet and roll film. They have been happy so far without the Zip-Lok bags.

[Roger Thoms]

I should add that when I remove film from the frig or freezer I let it warm up to room temperature. Especially here in San Francisco, plenty of condensation on the outside of the bag until it warms up. Not as much of an issue in Flagstaff.

Roger

[biedron]

I would opt for bagging the boxes. Zip lock bags are cheap. Film, no so much.

Bob

[John Layton]

I always Ziplock film prior to freezing it - and make sure to warm prior to loading into holders. Also, as an additional precaution, I'm always sure to use the "freezer rated" Ziplocks...not just the "storage rated" ones. Freezer-rated bags are slightly heavier/sturdier, and feature better sealing. Just my two cents!

[480sparky]

Pretty sure all Kodak and Ilford films are sealed though, and I've always thrown them in as is. Other brands YMMV


The Ilford I've been getting isn't. It's open on one end.

Even if you've been getting sealed bags, there's no indication on the box as to whether it's sealed or not. And since there's no industry standard, the makers are free to change what they use without notice. So assuming your boxes of fresh, high-$ film is sealed just because they have been can suddenly become an expensive OOPS.

Freezer bags are cheap. Best practice would be to use 'em and fuhgeddabowdit.

[djdister]

And the other reason to put 'em in freezer bags is to avoid the "soggy box syndrome."

[Bill Burk]

I've been using a heat sealer to make a completely sealed bag around the film I freeze. When I used Ziploc bags, I found the cartons inside a little damp from what I figure is an imperfect seal.

[Richard Johnson]

I like to defrost and temper the frozen film according to the Ansel Adams method he outlines on page 235 of "The Negative". The downside is the price and hazard of having that tank of liquid Nitrogen, suffice to say that it's not a good idea to smoke. The upside is an increase in the dMax as well as a third-stop increase in film speed.

[Jac@stafford.net]

The downside is the price and hazard of having that tank of liquid Nitrogen, suffice to say that it's not a good idea to smoke.

Why?


The upside is an increase in the dMax as well as a third-stop increase in film speed.

That is interesting. I don't understand how that can happen. Any more information?
.

[Bill Burk]

Why? That is interesting. Any more information?

page 235 of "The Negative" relates to intensification. Although Kodak IN-5 is a complicated short-lived formula with 4 stock solutions mixed at 50 degrees C and combined in sequence in subdued light at 20 degrees C ... I think the post was meant in jest to misguide you, not meant to be taken as a serious contribution to your darkroom knowledge.

[DG 3313]

+1


I've been using a heat sealer to make a completely sealed bag around the film I freeze. When I used Ziploc bags, I found the cartons inside a little damp from what I figure is an imperfect seal.

[EdSawyer]

I usually don't bother bagging it, the recent Kodak stuff is all sealed anyway. Plus even bagging it doesn't prevent moisture (there's moisture in the air within the bag anyway).

[Sirius Glass]

I usually don't bother bagging it, the recent Kodak stuff is all sealed anyway. Plus even bagging it doesn't prevent moisture (there's moisture in the air within the bag anyway).

Not generally a problem in Southern California

[John Kasaian]

I always bag film in freezer zip locks, freezer or fridge.

[DG 3313]

The OP didn't say anything about Sothern California or Kodak film........don't assume when you type........



I've got two more boxes of 4X5 film than I had planned on, and I would like to know about freezing it. Should I store each bag in a zip-loc bag, or just stick each box in the freezer and take it out when I need it? I'm concerned about frost inside the box, and subsequent moisture when I thaw the film.

Thanks to all who reply.

With best regards,

Stephen

[Roger Thoms]

May have to get a heat sealer, as I know ziplock bags aren't perfect. As far as not bagging, of course it's not necessary, just more risk if you don't. I have a dedicated manual freezer for film and paper, my main concern is if it fails and thaws out there will definitely be damage. Even if the film is ok I sure don't want a bunch of soggy boxes. Like I mentioned in previously I've seen what water can do to Ilford 7x17 film. As far as moisture in the air that's never been an issue for me in San Francisco so I don't worry about it.

Roger

[A_Tabor]

Plus even bagging it doesn't prevent moisture (there's moisture in the air within the bag anyway).

One of the main issues with moisture cold storage generally isn't due to what is there when you first put it in storage, but rather what can happen over time if the cold storage space isn't properly climate controlled. If you stick the box in a heavy duty bag, squeeze the air out, seal, and put in a fridge or freezer, then the amount of moisture that can condense out is relatively minimal.

However, when you open the door to your cold storage and let more moisture in? Well that has to condense out on a surface. Then when you open the door again? And again?


Plus there is the flip side to cold storage: Pulling moisture out of the environment. It is very hard to keep a cold humid storage setup after all, due to the whole condensing vapours out of the air, which in turn can allow moisture to leech out of things you're storing.

Really no idea if freezer burn is actually much of a risk with film, but I can't see it being a good thing for it.


Double bagging with a vacuum sealer and letting things slowly warm up to working temp for a day or two before breaking the seal sounds like a fairly reasonable and reliable storage method that wouldn't take much time added to the whole thing if you are planning your needs out in advance.


Just chucking the boxes in a freezer might work most of the time, so does only looking toward the traffic when crossing a one way street. Odds are looking the other way will never actually do anything, but personally my faith in humanity is such that I'll look both ways before stepping out anyway. Why not take such an easy precaution on the off chance that something does go wrong? Sensible precautions against real potential issues and all that.

[Wayne]

Not generally a problem in Southern California

Its never been a problem anywhere I've lived. I think bagging sealed film is wasted effort. If you are getting soggy boxes you have other problems going on

[Jac@stafford.net]

Really no idea if freezer burn is actually much of a risk with film, but I can't see it being a good thing for it.

Modern freezer bags cured the freezer burn (desiccation) issue, but some economy bags are not impervious to air penetration. Get the good stuff and be happy. Some have noted that the automatic freezer defrost cycle is a problem, but I've not found that to be true for my fifteen year-old freezer.

[vinny]

Its never been a problem anywhere I've lived. I think bagging sealed film is wasted effort. If you are getting soggy boxes you have other problems going on
cardboard absorbs moisture.
I don't know when my freezers will fail (they won't run forever) but anything not sealed properly will get saturated.
I seal all of my open boxes (and Ilford)in vacuum sealed bags. I've recently added desiccant packs to them as well for the hell of it. Ziploc bags aren't very reliable.

[redrockcoulee]

Most of my film in the freezer is in sealed tubs. Never had a soggy box yet this way plus it is easier to find the film and none of it falls to the floor when I open the upright freezer. that which is not in the tub is placed in zip like plastic bags but are actually soil sampling bags so a little more heavy duty in both the seal and the plastic. In the fridge it is in plastic bags as the film shelf is right below the shelf that holds the milk, juice and wine and I think that if any of those spilled that liquid would come out of them. Sometimes my roll film is in small plastic bags that are just right for 6 rolls of 120 and the bags are free to me as they are refuge from work, contained only plastic that was sterile and the bags fit into my camera bags so that if I am going out shooting I can just take a bag out of the freezer or fridge before hand and the film is all ready to go.

[Drew Wiley]

I always double-bag the boxes, but never in Zip-Locks. Always something I can twirl and totally seal. But frankly, a lot depends on whether the film box has an inner heat-sealed foil pouch around the film or not.

[EdSawyer]

A_Tabor - good info, thanks for adding that. sounds like it's worth bagging stuff in most cases.

[Drew Wiley]

If you need an inexpensive air-evac bagging system, get one of the units sold for do-it-yourself freeze-drying of vegetables etc. About a hundred bucks with a
supply of heat-seal bags.

[Kirk Gittings]

Just chucking the boxes in a freezer might work most of the time,

How about 45 years of doing it? :)

[Sirius Glass]

Just chucking the boxes in a freezer might work most of the time,.


How about 45 years of doing it? :)

I have only been doing it consistently for about 15 years.

[Roger Thoms]

Not worth the risk for me, but then I've seen damaged film going in the trash firsthand. Granted if was from a refrigerator, not a freezer. For me it's just a inexpensive form of insurance.

Roger

[Fred L]

last batch of film I bought (bulk rolls of Tri X and some 4x5 TX) I vacuum bagged. Overkill for the bulk rolls but better safe than sorry for the sheets.

[Drew Wiley]

I never re-freeze film once opened. I only freeze new boxes.

[Maris Rusis]

I always bag the film and photographic paper and pack it in plastic food storage containers before freezing. My pessimistic assumption is that the refrigerator or freezer will fail while I'm away on a photography expedition. Everything else can get soggy and or mouldy from the defrost water but, please, not the film, not the paper.

[Sirius Glass]

I will refreeze an unopened package, but opened packages go into Zip-Lok bags and into the refrigerator.

[480sparky]

A huge factor is whether your freezer is self-defrosting. If it is, you'll have moisture issues as the unit actually has a heating unit that's used to melt the frost build-up.

[Noah A]

I always use ziplocks. It's cheap insurance, and they can be reused. I also use them to hold my loaded film holders in my backpack in an effort to keep dust away from my holders.

I never refreeze a box after I open it, but that's mostly because Kodak only sells 10-sheet boxes of Portra, so I just load the whole box into holders at once.