Norma 5x7 and 8x10 Dimensions

[asf]

Have searched but not found this info

Can any owners of 5x7 and 8x10 Normas measure the width and height of the rear standards?

I know the depth is dependent on rail and rail clamp, will assume ~6" deep if stored on short extension (w front standard) or slightly less if the rail is removed as I've seen some do.

[Tony Lakin]

Have searched but not found this info

Can any owners of 5x7 and 8x10 Normas measure the width and height of the rear standards?

I know the depth is dependent on rail and rail clamp, will assume ~6" deep if stored on short extension (w front standard) or slightly less if the rail is removed as I've seen some do.

8X10 is 336mm wide X 390mm high, measurements include sticking out bits rail and rail clamp not included.

[asf]

We're off to a good start, thank you Tony

For us Americans 336mm is 1/4 mile

Wait, think my math is off

Let's say 13 1/4"W x 15 3/8"H, or thereabouts

Quite compact

[Jerry Bodine]

Here's another option, if you're interested. I recently measured my 8x10 Norma for storage when in a "folded" config, but not yet done that for the 5x7. Folded config involves detaching the standard bellows from the rear standard only, then folding the front standard (with bellows) down to the rail, then folding the rear standard down on top of the front standard. This requires the camera to be mounted on an 18" rail. Height measurements are then made while on the rail but w/o the rail clamp. Width measurements include tilt lock handle that sticks out a bit:

Length = 18-3/8"
Width = 13.5"
Height = 6.5"

If you don't want it folded so you can use a 12" rail, then the upright height of the rear standard (measuring from the bottom of its rail lock to its top) is 15-3/4".

[asf]

Good info

You could fit both standards on a 6" rail I would think (without the clamp)

Which way do you think gives the best combination of portability and ease of setup/take down?

[Jerry Bodine]

Stowing on the 6" rail would normally necessitate adding rail sections during setup (and removing rail sections during stow), which would take quite longer to setup for a shot than simply hooking the bellows to the front standard with the 18" rail already in place. I leave the rail clamp on the tripod head all the time, since setup is faster than mounting the rail clamp to the pan-tilt head (the rail clamp's sleeve stays on the rail). Dealing with the ~18" stowed length is really the only downside for speed of setup/take down. The 6" rail makes more sense with the 4x5 version, I think.

[asf]

I see

And could the 5x7 be folded on the 12" rail?

[Jerry Bodine]

The 5x7 does not fold at all on a 12" rail. And even on the 18" rail it's a VERY fussy task. But if you're willing, this is what's involved to make the smallest package:

Length = 18-3/8"
Width = 10-3/4"
Height = 7-3/4"

Detach bellows at front standard
Max fall at rear standard
Rise at front standard as needed
Max forward front focus (rear focus at zero)
Fold front standard down to the rail
Fold rear standard w/ bellows attached onto the front standard
Bellows MUST clear front tilt scale (barely)
See what I mean? I'd opt to leave it intact on the 12" rail and hang it upside down, supported by the rail.

[asf]

Doesn't sound easy

And if both standards are pushed together on a 6" rail?

[Jerry Bodine]

I'm not sure what your objectives are or if you are at all concerned about setup/stow timelines.

Regarding 5x7 on 6" rail, both standards obviously can only be moved together if both the rail clamp and its sleeve are removed.
The standards can then be moved together if no bellows or bag bellows is in place (standard bellows will not allow it). Btw, a 6" rail is only available as a (red-tip) rail extension (to which I believe only another extension rail can be attached), there are no 6" basic (black-tip) rails available. With the standards mounted on the 6" rail you'd be limited to lenses of ~150mm (wide angle on 5x7). Setup would at least require that the front standard be removed temporarily in order to re-install the rail clamp and its sleeve, as well as adding rail extension(s) to use lenses longer than 150. Also you should be aware that using the 6" rail extension as a basic rail means you'd likely not be able to use the rail caps from a basic rail (that would require Special Rail Cap 428.31), so there is danger of having unlocked standards accidentally slide off the ends of the 6" rail.

So, with either no bellows or bag bellows, standards together on 6" rail, rail clamp & sleeve removed, results in the following dimensions:
Length = 7" (rail + red cap)
Width = 10-3/4" (no bellows) or 11" (bag bellows)
Height = 14"

[asf]

I would keep the rail clamp on the tripod head, then attach the 6" extension with the standards to a 12" rail (basic or extension, whichever easier), slide the standards apart and mount that on the head/clamp

I do this with my Toyos, it's very quick

Stored on the 6" rail it becomes very flat and opens up many other kinds of bags/cases depending on the situation

[asf]

For 8x10 seems like folded down on 18" rail is best

[Jerry Bodine]

Sounds like you've got it worked out to your satisfaction now.

[asf]

Possibly, as I don't have either camera accessible I wanted to know dimensions and what others did with theirs

Also if my ideas were feasible

[asf]

Found this image of a folded 5x7, looks quite compact on a 12" rail (or is it 18""?)

144647

[Jerry Bodine]

Found this image of a folded 5x7, looks quite compact on a 12" rail (or is it 18""?)

144647

This image shows the 5x7 folded on an 18" rail that has the rail clamp installed. It is done by removing the standard bellows from both the front and rear standards, then placing the camera over the bellows so that the camera's weight is supported by the rail clamp rather than the bellows. Both standards are left in zeroed position before folding, first the front standard then the rear standard. I think it's a risky arrangement; it looks OK on a tabletop that is reasonably flat/firm, but if placed in a case that is not so flat there is risk of bellows damage from camera weight resting on it (plus the bellows is a loose component free to settle in an undesirable position). The case would need to prevent the camera from rocking side-to-side, otherwise the bellows would get "cycled" from the rocking. Since you normally leave the rail clamp on the tripod, I think this may not work for you.

[asf]

Thank you Jerry, very helpful

That explains why the bellows didn't make sense to me

I have the camera with me and I'm finding it easiest to leave it set up on the base rail in the expert case

Will see if any of the folding options work for me for smaller bags though

[asf]

Btw, in the Sinar Norma manual folding down the 5x7 onto the rail sounds very easy
Reality is always different I guess

[Jerry Bodine]

Btw, in the Sinar Norma manual folding down the 5x7 onto the rail sounds very easy
Reality is always different I guess

My 5x7 folds down easily as described in the manual; to me it doesn't seem really necessary to move the rear standard upward a half-inch as instructed, unless it's to minimize the risk of scuffing the finish on the "cross-bar" on the standard (it's a really close gap). The half-inch isn't really all that critical either.

Fig. 17: http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/sinar_1.html

I'm reminded of this (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?48291-A-better-5x7-Sinar-P-quot-holder-quot&p=462241&highlight=sinar#post462241) thread.

[asf]

Perhaps I misunderstood what you meant before about folding it on the 18" rail


The 5x7 does not fold at all on a 12" rail. And even on the 18" rail it's a VERY fussy task. But if you're willing, this is what's involved to make the smallest package:

Length = 18-3/8"
Width = 10-3/4"
Height = 7-3/4"

Detach bellows at front standard
Max fall at rear standard
Rise at front standard as needed
Max forward front focus (rear focus at zero)
Fold front standard down to the rail
Fold rear standard w/ bellows attached onto the front standard
Bellows MUST clear front tilt scale (barely)
See what I mean? I'd opt to leave it intact on the 12" rail and hang it upside down, supported by the rail.

[Jerry Bodine]

Oops! You didn't misunderstand. I was going from my poor memory that the Sinar manual showed only the 4x5 folded, so I didn't check it. I was trying to figure out the best way to fold the 5x7; obviously Sinar already had it worked out. Detaching the bellows from the front standard put me on the wrong path right away. Thanks for reminding me about the manual. Please disregard my messed up post.

[asf]

Ah, ok, confusion cleared!

You have been so helpful with your input I didn't want to question you

So to be clear:

18" rail with clamp attached
Leave bellows on front standard, detach from rear standard
Fold back front standard, bellows to rail
Maybe raise rear standard 1cm or 1/2"
Fold down rear standard on top of front

[Jerry Bodine]

Finally we got it right, sorry for my confusion. You can lay this folded version in a bag either with or without the rail clamp installed. More stable to rest it upside down on its rear standard, but also wise in this case to put a groundglass protector in place. I went to a local plastics supplier (west coast only) and had them make up a flat custom-dimensioned sheet of clear polycarbonate, 1/8" thick, that I insert on the rear standard; it's nearly indestructible and doesn't matter if it gets beat up. They cut it while I waited and was not expensive.

[asf]

Was thinking to cut some semi rigid plastic to the dimensions of the bellows from and use the clips on the gg frame to hold it in, sounds same as what you've done

[Jerry Bodine]

I used a vernier to measure precisely the width and height of the cavity on the rear side of the gg where I'd put the plastic (not bellows dimensions, but close to same). That would leave a comfortable space between plastic and gg. Held it in place with the sliding clip that secures accessories behind the gg. BTW, upon checking my receipts for the plastic, the 1/8" protector thickness was for the 4x5; I used 3/16" for the 5x7 & 8x10.

[asf]

Would you be willing to share those measurements?

I have several sheets here I could have cut down

[Jerry Bodine]

Here are the dimensions I had the plastic cut to; I didn't retain the dimensions of the cavities.

4x5: 4-5/8 x 5-3/8 x 1/8" (the 4-5/8 could've been 4-11/16 for a little less free-play)
5x7: 5-5/8 x 8.0 x 3/16"
8x10: 8-5/8 x 10-3/4 x 3/16"

[asf]

Great info, thank you