Graphic View Ground Glass Dimensions

[dpn]

Hello everyone,

Can anyone confirm the dimensions of the ground glass used on a Graphic View camera with a spring (non-Graflok) back? I read 3 7/8" by 4 7/8", but confirmation would be great. I just acquired a Graphic View sans GG, and need to get a replacement ordered or made before my large format photography class starts next month. Alternatively, I have an Anniversary Speed Graphic with a nice fresneled GG. Any chance I can simply move that camera's GG over to the Graphic View?

I've attached a picture of the rear of the camera in question.

Thanks,

Dan

143846

[dpn]

Steve Hopf thinks that the dimensions may be 100x122mm (3 15/16 x 4 13/16"), but, again, I'd really appreciate confirmation from anyone with the camera in hand.

Thanks,

Dan

[Jim Jones]

The Anniversary GG with Fresnel might not be a direct replacement for the Graphic view due to the focus shift of the Fresnel.

[dpn]

Noted, thanks Jim. I'm going to have Steve Hopf grind a replacement when I get the dimensions nailed down. And thanks again for the advice over on APUG.

[Tin Can]

I just checked mine which looks like new, is 100% OE with a lens side Fresnel that mounts the GG on 2 long ledges top and bottom, no contact on ends or short side. But there are stops for max length at 4.98"

Max possible GG is 4.0 X 4.95. Min is 3.9 X 4.8" or less.

Hopf is seldom wrong.

I measure roughly as my vernier is poor for depth, 0.15" to lens side of Fresnel. Actual T should be about 0.2" per http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html

So you need a Fresnel or shims.

I would certainly try your Speed parts, in fact the whole GG frame may drop in.

[dpn]

Thank you so much Randy! As soon as the camera arrives, I'll see what I can do with it.

[Tin Can]

Thank you so much Randy! As soon as the camera arrives, I'll see what I can do with it.

Oops I made a mistake. Mine is version 2 and your is 1. Consider this link. http://www.largeformatphotography.info/graphic-view/

[dpn]

Yeah, mine is the first (Graphic back) version. There's a detail shot on that link of the ground glass assembly, and it looks really similar to the ground glass assembly (four vertical flathead screws, etc.) on my Anniversary Speed Graphic. When the camera arrives, I'll see if the Anniversary Speed Graphic's assembly drops right on.

If there's no (cheap) fix, I may return the camera and look for a different sub-$200 view camera for the large format photography class I'm taking this spring.

[LabRat]

Building on the above correct information, A standard Graphic GG will fit, but the fresnel spacing must be included... The fresnel thickness is .060"/about 1/16"... The fresnel is mounted under the GG, like on Pacemaker Graphic models, but that space is needed if just the GG is used in order to focus correctly... If your fresnel is not the thickness as above, you can go to a hobby shop and buy some metal or wood strips that thickness, and make shims that go between the GG seating area (in the GG frame), and the matt side of the GG...

With your Anniversary Graphic model, you might want to check because the GG matt side usually sat directly on the GG frame, so if there is a fresnel between it and the GG, there might be a focus error (unless camera was modified for it)...

But after all is said and done, set up 3 matchsticks front to back, an inch apart, set in some clay to hold them up (staggered a little), put your faster lens on the camera (wide open), and focus (from about 2 or 3 feet away) on the center stick, then shoot a test neg... If there is a error, the front or back stick will be in focus... Good test to do on all cameras once in awhile...

Steve K

[LabRat]

I took another look at your camera photo... Check for this...

Take a metal ruler, and measure the distance between the GG seating area, and about where the GG clip presses... If it is a non-fresnel model, it should be a little shy of 1/16", if a fresnel model model, it should be a little shy of 1/8"...

Most of the post-war cameras had the fresnel, but I not sure if this one is post or pre war...

Don't give up on this camera... It's just the GG you need to mount, and then it's a great camera... (Though, I prefer the GVII, which I think has one of the best engineered movement systems of ANY camera made...)

Steve K

[Nancy Evans]

Possibly 4.0 X 4.95. Min is 3.9 X 4.8" or less

[Jim Jones]

If the ground glass must be shimmed to correct for the lack of a Fresnel in a back made for the Fresnel, the shim thickness is not exactly the same as the thickness of a Fresnel. Physical and optical thickness of transparent material differ.

[Old-N-Feeble]

I wouldn't return the camera because it'll cost half its value to ship it back. If you buy another graphic view, you'd be better off keeping this one for spare parts.

[Jac@stafford.net]

Trimming down a ground glass yourself is easy and cheap. The fresnel stuff is confusing because the designers were confused.

[dpn]

I'm not worried about trimming and grinding the ground glass, but dealing with shimming and replacing, or not, the fresnel is more than I'd bargained for. I just found a Toyo (Omega) 45E for the same price that looks like it's in great shape, so will probably go with that camera instead.

[Old-N-Feeble]

So you're returning the Graphic View?

[dpn]

Haven't decided yet. I may be able to borrow a view camera for those portions of the class requiring more moments than my Speed Graphic can handle. More money for film in that case!

[Jon Shiu]

There's a nice Calumet on craigslist with lens for $225

Jon

[dpn]

Thanks Jon, and thanks all for the input and information.

[Old-N-Feeble]

What did you decide to do with the Graphic View? It's a nice camera.

[dpn]

What did you decide to do with the Graphic View? It's a nice camera.
No decision yet, since it hasn't arrived from the seller yet. I'll figure out what to do with it once it comes and I get a chance to evaluate it in person. Right now, unless return shipping is obscene, I'm leaning towards returning it rather than working out the GG/fresnel/shimming issues.

[Jim Jones]

Working out the GG/Fresnel/shimming issues is part of a good education. Cameras come and go, knowledge endures.

[Old-N-Feeble]

^^^ :)

[dpn]

Well put Jim. I had a really frustrating and expensive summer dealing with bad CLAs on German TLRs, so I'm a little gun shy right now about taking on another repair project.

[dpn]

So, the Graphic View arrived today. It's exactly what I was looking for: the movements are reasonably smooth, the camera seems sturdy, it doesn't reek of rancid old lubricant, and it was cheap.

So, assuming that I get a ground glass to fit, how hard will it be to figure out the focusing error and shim correction required to fix it? Time to shoot some test shots of a yardstick?

[Tin Can]

Study 'T' and how to make yourself happy with your usage of 'T'.

Some are more picky than others.

http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-81346.html

[dpn]

Great information, thank you Randy. I'm used to working at large apertures and close distances, so I may be on the pickier side.

[LabRat]

The fresnel might be a non-issue on this camera (read post #10 again)... This might be a pre-war camera that didn't use a fresnel... So check the gap the GG sits in (looks like maybe single GG in the photo)...

These are great cameras!!! There might be some confusion here, as most that are in use are the GVII model that share the GG/fresnel of the Pacemaker series... (There is a picture somewhere of Ansel using one...)

Have fun, and good luck with your class!!!!

Happy Holidays!!!

Steve K

[Jim Jones]

Study 'T' and how to make yourself happy with your usage of 'T'.

Some are more picky than others.

http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/archive/index.php/t-81346.html

Some of the information in Randy's first link is wrong. For years I've corrected some of this information on this and other sites, based on ASA Z38.1.51-1951. That's a rather old source, so tonight I compared it with ANSI/PIMA IT3.108-1998. Forty-seven years later the information was still the same. Anyone with a serious need for the complete spec sheet can download ANSI IT3.108 from www.ihs.com/ for the price of a few sheets of film.

[dpn]

If anyone is curious, I returned the Graphic View and acquired a Calumet 4x5 (predates the CC-400, I think?) that was ready to go for $80. Cheaper and easier, and the movements feel smoother. I'll be deferring the fresnel shimming exercise, it appears.