Please, help me to identify this old camera (ca 1900)

[jzlib]

Sirs,
first let me thank you for running this great forum!

First question: Recently, I bought this lovely camera - but was not able to find much about company which produced it... Could somebody help me to identify what camera is it?

It is equipped with Extra Rapid Lynkeioskop Serie C no. 4, CP Goerz Berlin, serial number 45826. (Pointing I guess to cca 1900...)
There is a name of shop on it: Kinohaus C.Garz, Schwerin i/M - was trying to google it, it seems the German shop existed in ca 1915.

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Second question: The camera is in great shape, so I am planing to test it soon... but there is a catch: the piece with the focusing screen fits perfectly to he body of camera. But when I change it with the plate holder, the is a relative big gap of some 2-3 mm... Is there something missing (or might the holder be unoriginal)? . Please, see the photos...

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MORE PHOTOS HERE (https://www.dropbox.com/sh/ypufxy0nehzczpe/AACIYAJ17f4quiFMQd-MPgToa?dl=0)

Would be much obliged for any help!

Thank you!

Sincerely,
Jan

[IanG]

Jan, the plate holder slips into the back, the glass holder is hinged and swings out of the way. So that's not the correct (original) plate holder. See the hinge in your 3rd photo.

It's a Reisekamera but it may be difficult identifying the maker. Steven Tribe's more knowledgeable on this type of camera.

Ian

[jzlib]

Ian, thanks a lot... I see it now... I was surprised why to change all the back side... So I just swing the glass out of the way and "plug in" the plate holder... Well, bad news for me - since I have wrong ones...
Is there a change to buy plate holders that would fit in? Or was it just all too individual?

Thanks again!
Jan

[Steven Tribe]

In the peak period of reisekameras (1890-1914) there were many excellent makers of these cameras who are anonymous!

Retailer's name is much more common.
The lens is very good Aplanat and the no. 4 size covers 13x18cm and even 21x27cm at small stops. In modern F, it is approximately F6.

The plate holder is the wrong type and perhaps for the next size format 18x24cm! The long slits in the side fitted into long brass strips on another camera. When the genuine back is place, you find that the ground glass section will swing out. Then the real plate holders will fit in. These are most often the book double sided type most sets were sold with 3 (6 exposures).
You will be able to find replacement plate holders. There is some variation in size (mms only) but nothing more than a few hours with a plane and/sandpaper will rectify.
13x18 sheet film is a standard sales item at a few on-line shops in Germany.
A few photos will come later when I can upload!
There is a lot of information in other threads here.
There is only a side view of your present plate holder, but I would guess it is a single holder, perhaps with a "back door"? This certainly is a saleable article.

[jzlib]

Steven, thank you so much for your insights!!! Amazing, it is a fascinating world... I will do more reading...

I clearly see now that the plate holder belongs to another camera, there are some more photos via the link in the original post, on the following one, you can see the structure of the "wrong oversized" holder - the size of it is 22cm x 22cm, the size of plate that can fit in is 13x18cm, and it has a small "reduction" frame inside - with "half plate" (I believe) size 12x16,5 cm - please see the picture here...https://www.dropbox.com/s/bq4xnwj8ygkqy2b/DSCF7124.jpg?dl=0

I measured the slot for the "proper one" plate holder: its width is 15,8 cm, hight 21,8 cm, the third dimension is ca 0,8 cm... global view is here https://www.dropbox.com/s/od40jvw5s2kezbg/DSCF7119.jpg?dl=0

and here is a detail showing that the glass is going about a one or two mm about the level of the frame - hope it should be like this and it is an original focusing screen...https://www.dropbox.com/s/82h61pfrmza82nw/DSCF7235.JPG?dl=0

Can I just ask you, what to do to find and buy a proper plate holder? Is is this size sort of "normal" and what would be the term to search for? (I did not understand your sentence "...a few hours with a plane and/sandpaper will rectify"... I got the I could use the sand paper to reduce the size, but how to enlarge it?)

Sorry for so many questions, but it is just a great adventure!

Best,
Jan

[Steven Tribe]

Your present plate holder is, as I guessed, a Wet Plate/Transitional holder for some sort of Studio camera. Perhaps a previous owner was interested in alternative emulsion phototgraph.

Getting hold of replacement holders is really easy. Try here on the For Sale section when you have been registered for a month or look at ebay.de. Prices vary a lot (so wait until there is a reasonable offer).

One obviously buys a set of film holders which are the right size OR slightly larger from the same source. So sandpaper or a shaving plane is the only tool required. Depth is pretty standard.

There is plenty of data here on book plate holders if ypu use the advanced search with just titles.

[jzlib]

Steve, great!
One more clarification, if you can - I already looked around, incl. ebay.de and was just wondering - what is the size to look for? I have a feeling that the sellers mention size of the plate/film, eg 13x18, not the size of the plate as such... but I know only the size of the slot: 15,8 x 21,8 x 0,8 cm - or am I wrong?


Thanks again!!

Jan

[Steven Tribe]

We have a rule about linking to active auctions. Better to replace with a link to completed auction.

This a later design, where plates are loaded through the dark slide, rather through a middle opening.
This is a 13x18cm he/she even shows a ruler in the photos.

You should be able to find them cheaper than this.

Some of us have lots of these (see below)!

[IanG]

As Steven says those are too expensive, I've just bought 3 half plate in very nice condition for £12/$18 less than 5 mins ago on Ebay, they are the UK equivalent of 13x18. You need to also find film adapters to use sheet film in plate holders but depending how the holders load you may be able th get around this.

Ian

[jzlib]

Steven, Ian,
thanks for info and the "hint" about the price... And sorry for linking the ebay, I was not aware of the rule, I removed the link now... And well, the photo of the plates is really inspiring!!
Recapitulation for me: I should be looking for size ca 16x22 (total size) for sheet film 13x18 cm, am I right? And how should I find the film adapter?
Thanks!
Jan

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to Large Format Photography Forum.

[IanG]

Steven, Ian,
thanks for info and the "hint" about the price... And sorry for linking the ebay, I was not aware of the rule, I removed the link now... And well, the photo of the plates is really inspiring!!
Recapitulation for me: I should be looking for size ca 16x22 (total size) for sheet film 13x18 cm, am I right? And how should I find the film adapter?
Thanks!
Jan

Just look for 13x18 forget the outside dimensions that'll be rarely given. Film inserts appear on ebay but you may not need them, instead some thin aluminium sheet or card may be sufficient. Book-form plate holders have springs that holds the glass in place you need something between the film and the spring, but relatively thin.

Ian

[Steven Tribe]

They are often called film sheaths, but are given many names by listers. Again, you could ask here in a month when the For sale/Wanted section becomes open for you.

The physical size is a bit more complicated due to ribs on the side, total length and locking system ( see the little central edge slot on the photos I posted).

Actually, you could do a conversion to 7x5" as this sheath size will fit into 13x18cm book plate holders.

[IanG]

Actually, you could do a conversion to 7x5" as this sheath size will fit into 13x18cm book plate holders.

That's interesting to know.

I bought what I thought were 3 half plate camera backs 2 weeks ago, two spring back and one book-form, one of the spring backs turned out to be 7x5 which was a bonus as I needed a back for a Seneca City View. This leads to another option which is to find a 7x5 or half plate spring back, the plate and modern film holders (DDS -double dark slide) have the same outside dimensions and you could make a second back to use easily found modern film holders without compromising the cameras integrity..

Ian

[jzlib]

Thanks again for all this! I am bit confused now since I believed that the camera is 7x5 which is more or less 13x18... So did it wrong, since it is a European camera, is in in fact exactly 13X18, eg more or less 7x5, right?
And generally, the best type to look for is the book-form?

Best,
Jan

[Steven Tribe]

I prefer book type.

1. Light leaks are easier to spot in the "woodwork".
2. Instant conversion from glass plate to cut film.
3. Easier to introduce reduction frames ( 13x18 down to 1/2 plate or 18x24 down to full plate!).

[jzlib]

Hello, finally, I bought a plate holder on ebay - the size was perfect, the photo showed only front side, so I risked it - but, unfortunatelly, it is not compatible - apart of those you shown me, it does not have the side "groove", so it cannot be fit into my camera... and even a bit od DIY is hard to imagine, since there is the metal piece preventing any "creativity"... So I presume, I must seek further...
Thanks for any comment!
Jan145576, 145577

[Steven Tribe]

Yes, this is a rather de luxe version of the most common type where you place the plate holder about 3cm to the right and engage the left and right "tabs" and push in the remaining 3cm.
You need the type that has central slot all the way down the side. And it will be without the brass clips along the side.
The type you bought can be modified (1-3mm) to fit variations of the usual type.

Are you sure it doesn't fit - try the mounting system I mentioned.