Dugal, bait and switch.

[Tim Stahl]

I recently decided to get some stuff printed, and due to a lack of quality labs here in Anchorage (the one good one went digital), I decided to look for a lab in the lower 48. I have done business with Ivey (was Ivey, then Photobition, now Ivey again) in Seattle, Dugal color projects in New York, and Texas Photographics (was Lieber Labs) in Houston. I decided on Dugal because they quoted me a lower price, and their quality is on par with the others. Today I get a call from one of Dugals' employees. He tells me the price, and I explain that there is a price difference. To give you an idea, it went from $8 for a contact print to $45!!! He says that there must have been a communication problem with the customer service people. After arguing with him for ten minutes, and getting nowhere, he offers a 10% discount, and take it or leave it. SO, I thought that I would pass on this information to everyone. Don't trust the customer service folks @ Dugal to give you anything near the correct price for an order. And before anyone says, "Just do it your self", it was color work, and I do not have access to color equipment in Alaska.

[Jim Ewins]

It would be interesing to get their side of the story. Perhaps you could alert them to this thread.

[Tim Stahl]

I'll do that tomorrow.

[Gem Singer]

Tim,

You didn't mention the size of the color contact print you were asking them to make for you.

[Tim Stahl]

8x10 contact on metallic paper. Quoted $8 each when I called the customer service folks. When my negative arrived, and they called me back, $48 for the first, $25 for each additional.

[Henry Ambrose]

Wow!
Is this price for a contact print from color negative as in "contact print to see what the film looks like" or an "art contact print"?
Its way too much for the former but could be about right for the later. Whats the rest of the story?

[Donald Qualls]

Considering that two and a half years ago, Ivey charged me $16 to develop and contact proof my first medium format color in almost 30 years, and $11 of that was the contact print (on plain ordinary satin finish), I'd have to say $48 for an 8x10 contact on metallic paper is much closer to a price I'd expect than $8 (and overhead is higher in New York, so I might expect higher prices there, not lower). I can't imagine how a pro lab anywhere in America could sell color contact prints in 8x10 for as little as $8.

I've found it sensible to double check when I hear a price that seems excessively good -- sometimes I avoid confusion, other times I get a pleasant surprise.

[Tim Stahl]

Henry, that basically sums up the story for me. I'll inform Dugal of this thread tomorrow, and I hope they post their side of the story. It will probably be the same as the person said to me "a communication problem", which I do believe. I was just really un happy that I was quoted one thing, and then told something else once my negative arrived. What is the difference between a "contact print to see what the film looks like" and a "art contact print"? I just wanted to see what the negative looks like on metallic paper because a friend in Iowa and I were discussing the differences between regular color paper and metallic. I also wanted to see what the negative looks like enlarged to 16x20, but that is a different story.

Donald, during our (the person who called me today & myself) ten minute long discussion, he said that regular color contact prints are $8. If I wanted the metallic, then it's $48. I explained that I had made it clear to the customer service person I initially spoke with that I wanted it printed on metallic, and she had said $8 after I had made it clear that I wanted it on metallic. I don't know what the overhead prices are for either location. Both are in some expensive realestate. However, I suspect that Dugal does more business than Ivey... so they might spread the cost around to give lower prices.

[Jorge Gasteazoro]

I dont think this is bait and switch but more a case of you being the victim of a poorly trained or new employee. I dont know the reputation of this lab, but unless you want hundreds of prints I imagine the lab would probably eat the cost of one or two metallic prints if you ask to talk to the manager and explain the situation.
My advice would be to collect yourself, and give them a call asking for the lab manager, be nice and most likely you will get what you want.
Any good lab wants to keep good potential customers, if after talking to the manager you are told no way...then you know which lab not to use anymore.

[Li-hsia]

Hi Tim,

I have used Duggal twice when I was in NY. I understanding that they have a reputation for being one of the better labs in NY if not US. They are on the pricier side of things but if people like Magnum use them you think that are fairly good at what they do. However the difference in the $8 to $48 does seem steep. I wonder whether the metallic print is done digitally(scan then lightjet print) to reflect the difference in price. I am sure you can make conventional contact prints on metallic paper. If you were given a quote for $8 then the lab should in good faith honour that.

Li-hsia

[Tim Stahl]

Jorge, You are probably correct that it was a new employee or something. I was both stunned and very unhappy that this happend, and that the employee who called me was unwilling to fix the problem (other than 10%, after ten minutes of discussion). When I call tomorrow to inform them of this thread, I'll see what the lab manager says.

Li-hsia, I have used Dugal in the past (periodically sence 1997/8) and never had a problem with them. They have always done good work. My problem is not with their quality. Metallic can be done from either a digital file or optically from a negative, it cannot be done from a transparency. The quoted price was from a negative, as the one done from digital was more money (like I said, the person I spoke with understood that it was from a negative on metallic).

[John Berry ( Roadkill )]

Sounds about right fo the new metalic paper as it is more spendy. Maybe the first quote was for regular paper.

[Eric Jones]

I don't get the price difference. Kodak Endura Metallic paper is 0.44 per 8x10 sheet retail and it runs in normal RA-4 paper processors. $45 for an 8x10 contact print is off the charts, in my opinion. Did you already send the negative? If not, move on and look elsewhere. It seems they had a chance to make good and lost a potential long term customer. Did you get ahold of a manager, someone a little more up the food chain?

[David A. Goldfarb]

Duggal is a great lab, but they are known to have customer service problems, particularly if you're not a big client. If you don't need something that only Duggal does, and you're looking for a New York lab, I'd recommend Modernage. Their website isn't terribly informative, but you can get their phone number from www.modernage.com, call them, and ask about what you need. I'm sure they do contacts on metallic paper, if you want them. I'm also fairly confident that if they quote you the wrong price in your favor, they'll stick by it.

[Dave Schneider]

Tim, I'm curious, you picked this lab because it was less expensive than the others. Were the other labs quoting something closer to the $45 price? That should have been a clue that you maybe there was a communication problem.

[Eric Jones]

A&I, in Hollywood, is a good "standard" for pricing info. They charge $5.00 or 8x10 C-41 processing and $8.50 for an 8x10 Contact Print. Even "Exhibition" 8x10 prints are only going for $36.00.

[Henry Ambrose]

I don't know what's happened today with your film but next time try these guys:

chromatics.com/film-processing.htm (http://chromatics.com/film-processing.htm)

8X10 color film is $5 to process and $10 to contact.
They can even handle 11X14 and 16X20. I've used them for years with never a problem. Chromatics is a first class operation.

[QT Luong]

$45 sounds awfully expensive for a contact. I could get a 20x30 lightjet for that price.

[Andre Noble]

$48? That's what you get for trying that trendy "metallic" shit.

K.I.S.S.

[Jon_2416]

I always try to get the price in writing...

That "trendy metallic shit" is great--I love it.

[Graeme Hird]

I love that trendy metallic shit too.

The paper itself should only cost 20 - 30% more then the uncool paper, so someone is telling you lies or they don't know their own prices ....

Cheers,

[David F. Stein]

I've used A&I and Flatiron for C-41 and E-6 sheet film. Did a good job with odd sizes, like 4x5 cut down to 9x12. No lost sheets and original packing was always returned. Good care for a non-pro, low volume customer. For 120, actually, the best quality I've received is from DALE COLOR LABS. The price has probably gone up, but C-41 for a roll of 120 film was just about $2 and the quality was the equal, maybe better, of the custom labs. The chemical lines WERE NOT weak; film was being developed fully. Until the Photo CD machines stopped being supported, Dale used to also give a Photo CD 18 meg file scan on 35mm film for the price that most charge for Picture CD. A good company. Duggal was also one of the last or is one of the last for Scala processing. I talked directly to the Scala line manager, the prices were excellent for 4x5 and I would not hesitate to give them a try.

[Tim Stahl]

Hi everyone,

I contacted Duggal and spoke with their general manager. I explained everything that had transpired, and informed him of this thread. I did not post for a day in the hopes that he would take a look and post something himself. He said that there was a communication problem. Apparently, when I want an "8x10 contact print", I should ask simply for an "8x10 print"... leaving the word "contact" out of it as it confuses the customer service people. He said that he would give me "a little more of a discount", however, did not go into details on how much. After informing him of this thread, he said that his lab had been open for fifty years, so he does not care what people write about it. So, thanks to some of the people posting info about good labs, I will know who to try in the future.

As an aside, I think that the metallic does look good with some images. I have not seen enough of it to make a love or hate comment, however, right now I would have to say that I like it.

Thanks again to everyone who has posted,

Tim

[Paul Butzi]

"After informing him of this thread, he said that his lab had been open for fifty years, so he does not care what people write about it."

That tells me all I need to know, right there.

Thanks for taking the time to post your story.

[Tim Stahl]

Thought I'd add one more thing. Duggal called me yesterday, they wanted to charge me an additional $7. Apparently the shipping price they quoted me was incorrect. I said that instead of shipping UPS, why not ship USPS, as it would be cheaper. The response, "Well, we have already shipped yesterday, so we need to charge you more now." I said that was their problem, too bad, don't try to charge me for your mistakes (again). The persons response, "but what am I supposed to say when they ask me why I not charge you?" I replied that I did not care what he said, that he should not think about charging me after all the problems they have already caused.

I am NEVER using Duggal again, ever.