View Full Version : Color Darkroom Set Up and Fujimoto CP-51
Hi All,
I'm setting up a color darkroom at the University of Nevada Las Vegas where I'm a first year graduate student. The school has a Fujimoto CP-51 and eight color enlargers. They used to have a color darkroom but got rid of it when digital took over the industry. But the equipment is still in great shape and the department is going to let me get the darkroom up and running again so that the students can learn analog color printing.
One problem is that I can't find the manual for the CP-51. Does anyone on this forum have one or know where I can find a pdf version online? I've been searching but have yet to find one. Also, if any of you have experience with the CP-51 I would appreciate any tips, information, suggestions, and warnings you have about setting up, running, and maintaining the processor. I want to try my best to make sure the machine runs well while I'm in charge of it so any advice is greatly appreciated. Same for setting up a color darkroom. Any tips are welcome. What color to paint the walls, ventilation, etc. And do you know where I can find spare parts for the machine if any are needed? I won't know until I try to get it running. Any recommendations for what color chemistry I should purchase?
Lastly, are there any large format photographers and/or printers in Las Vegas?
Gratefully,
Douglas
EdSawyer
8-Dec-2015, 11:02
I have a CP-51 and 2 CP-31s. I have the manual for the CP-31, not sure about CP-51, probably so though.
The main thing is to maintain it well - clean it daily, at the very least. I don't have any special ventilation in my darkroom, it's not really necessary for color RA4 printing I dont' think. (at least not in my case). You will need a tempered water connection and 240v line for the CP-51 I believe. Fujimoto spare parts sometimes show up on the secondary market, but they are also available new, I think Omega-Satter was the last distributor. Search online here, there should be some old threads about it. The pieces that need replacement most often are the rollers, but even those will last a long time if treated well.
For chemistry, stick with the Kodak RA-RT chemistry. It's cheap (relatively), lasts a long time, and is the gold standard for RA4.
The harder thing will be paper. Kodak cut-sheet Endura is no longer being made, only the roll form. You can get cut-sheet Fuji paper though, however many consider the Endura to be the better product. Or, cut down Endura rolls into sheets yourself.
The CP-51 is relatively robust but it's not the kind of thing you want people fiddling with, so make sure users keep hands-off on it, don't let them change settings or open the machine, IMNSHO. When new, these were a $15k+ setup, so not a cheap piece of equipment.
Congrats on being able to bring it back online and for keeping analog color printing available as an option!
-Ed
RPNugent
8-Dec-2015, 16:07
I'm sure I have the manual and will try to get it scanned in the next couple of days. DO NOT just fill it with water to test it, doing that wrong will burn out the heater according to the instructions. Have you found the long thin funnels that came with the machine? You need to use them to charge the system and get liquid deep in the reservoir below the visible level. It should have come with two funnels to avoid contamination of the developer with bleach fix. Also do you have the ceramic (or something like it) filters to go in the two holes at the back of the first two tanks. They are key and used to be hard to get.
Do you have the stabilizer version or the running water version, they made both. Less hassle with the stabilizer version as you won't need running temperature controlled water and a drain. Mine is running water, but the instructions deal with both I think, haven't read them in awhile.
You will need some ventilation unless you want a serious headache after a few hours running the machine. Tried it without at first and learned my mistake.
Again I'll try to scan it tomorrow if I get time. They are great machines, dry to dry in minutes. Wish I had time to run mine. Keep debating trying to sell it, but can't quite come around to doing it.
Ed,
Thank you for replying. I will write down all the points you made and be sure to pay attention to all of this during the set up and maintenance of the printer. If any other suggestions come to mind regarding the printer and the darkroom please send them my way.
Many thanks,
Doug
Bob,
Thank you for offering to scan the manual. I definitely wanna get my hands on it before I start fiddling around with the machine. I didn't see any funnels but now that you've mentioned them I will search for them. One of the professors may have the funnels in his office. I'll check. I'll also check for the ceramic filters too.
Not sure which version it is. I will take some pictures and upload them to this thread.
Thank you very much for the help and for the advice. I'll try to get the pictures up tomorrow.
RPNugent
9-Dec-2015, 06:53
Here's what you are looking for. The first shows funnel inserted in the hole to fill the system, next two are filters obtained from different sources and last is the funnel by itself.
Will get to scanning a bit later.
I couldn't find the filters online from Pakor anymore, but some minilab supply place may stock a comparable enough filter to work or someone on the forum may know where to get more.
EdSawyer
9-Dec-2015, 11:49
The manual was online, but archive.org doesnt' seem to have all of it, and the Jobo site seems to have moved it (or it's not listed anymore):
https://web.archive.org/web/20100201195048/http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_manual_cp51_00.htm
https://web.archive.org/web/20100125032508/http://www.jobo.com/jobo_service_analog/us_analog/instructions/instructions_manual_cp51-p30_supplement.htm
Other copies/versions of the manual:
http://www.silveruser.ca/Manuals/CP31%20Service.pdf
http://www.silveruser.ca/Manuals/CP51.pdf
Filters were discussed here:
http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/67905-fujimoto-cp-51-chemical-filters.html
The Stabilizer version wouldn't be ideal for RA-4, you pretty much want to wash those prints if possible. That said, you can loop and use a water bath without having running water or a drain if need be. I do something similar with my CP-31, basically i have a tempering bath that holds about 5Gal of water, and it has a circulation pump, I pump that into the input for the wash water in the W/D unit, and recirculate it to wash prints. It's not ideal, and I have to change the water from time to time during the session, but I haven't had time to plumb a basement drain (and supply) yet.
Spare parts here:
http://www.omegabrandess.com/products/Fujimoto-Processors
Bob,
I still have not found the two funnels. Do you think it will be difficult to find similar funnels? And do you have a suggestion for where I should search for some? Here are some pictures of the machine. It's covered in dust but I'll get it cleaned up next week once the semester ends and I have time to start setting up the darkroom. Any suggestions for what to watch out for when first starting it up and running it? It hasn't been used in years.
143307143308143309143310
Ed,
Thank you for all the links. This is very helpful information. I hope all goes well with the set up. None of the undergrads or graduate students have ever printed in a color darkroom before. I'm the only one with previous experience. In case you're interested in seeing the processor, I've posted images of it in my reply to Bob. Thanks again for your help.
RPNugent
10-Dec-2015, 06:02
It looks like you have the front half (developer/bleach fix module) of the full processor, but not the wash/dry module section. Not a problem as long as you have a way to wash and dry the prints after they exit the processor. They will still be wet and will not look right when they exit as RA4 needs to be dry before judging color accuracy and exposure of the print.
RPNugent
10-Dec-2015, 06:07
Forgot to answer your question about the funnel. The link Ed provided to Omega shows the funnels as still available for purchase. It doesn't list the filters as a "spare" but I would call and ask if they still carry them. I looked at the minilab link and didn't see a filter listed for the CP51. I'll post exact measurements later so you may be able to match one of the right size from their list if Omega doesn't carry them.
EdSawyer
10-Dec-2015, 06:30
The correct funnels are useful but any funnel that has the right diameter would probably work. They are mostly to force solutions down into the system, the taller ones helped via gravity/height, but even shorter ones *should* work.
Before you even fire it up, give it a major cleaning. rinse out all the tubing, I'd pull the whole bottom of the case and clean under there too. There's some buried tubing that is hard to clean otherwise. Dilute toilet bowl cleaner is good for cleaning tar/residue from the tanks and lines.
When I got my first Cp31 I gave it a near-complete disassembly and cleaning, took all the rollers and such out from the racks, cleaned each roller, all the gears, relubed them with silicone grease, etc. It took a while but I wanted to start as fresh as possible. I'd suggest similiar in this situation.
As mentioned there is a wash/dryer unit that usually went with these. If you can't find that, you can always get one on Ebay if need be, or wash and dry manually as mentioned.
RPNugent
10-Dec-2015, 07:00
I looked at the manual Ed posted and there were two illustrations missing that it seemed might be helpful to have. I will try emailing to your PM account s the pdfs exceed forum limits for attachments.
RPNugent
10-Dec-2015, 10:31
The filter measures 3" x 1 5/16" with 13/16" hole in the center so the minilabs part 11297 should be a near perfect fit.
Near the end of buying these from JOBO it seemed like the filters from them came about 1/8 to 1/4 inch too long at times. That made it impossible to fully seal the filter compartments, which instantly drains your chemistry so never allow a leak there. Cutting off the excess was easy with a standard hacksaw and probably could be done with coarse sandpaper.
It seems like you've got some good sources here--I used one of these for several years, it's a great processor. The one I used didn't have the drying unit, I would just drop the print into a tray with running water for a rinse, and then use an rc print dryer.
The big thing was to always pull the rollers out and clean them well after every use--never to store the rollers in the chemistry.
Ed, Bob, Andy,
I want to thank all of you again for all your suggestions and information. I've been reading through the manual pdf that I downloaded from one of the links that Ed provided. Everything seems pretty straight forward. The one thing I'm still not clear about though is the replenisher. I cannot visualize how the replenisher set up works. Also, I've been looking on the B&H website for color paper chemistry and I'm not sure which chemicals I should be buying. They have different options at different volumes and I'm confused about what to get. Below is a link to the B&H page with the different options. Could one of you look at the link and advise me as to which option is best? Just so you all know, when the Fujimoto is set up we're going to introduce it to the students gradually. There will not be a color photo class just yet. What we are going to do is to have students in the Advanced Photography class shoot color film for an assignment and then print on a color enlarger and process using the Fujimoto. There will be four students doing this per assignment. So there will never be more than four to eight people printing at once. I listed up to eight because there may be graduate students also using the printer, and I figure it's better to have more people printing rather than less to get the most from the chemicals. I read in the manual that each bath requires six liters of chemistry. But the replenisher throws me off since I don't understand how often the replenisher is feeding chemicals into the baths. How much chemistry do you suggest the school purchase at once?
Does the replenisher get added to the bath through hoses? Is it an automatic process? Or will I have to manually replenish the baths?
Thank you again for all of your advice. Each of you is making this process less intimidating. And the students are extremely excited for the spring semester to start so that they can print color. Right now they have only printed in the B&W darkroom and on inkjet printers.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?atclk=Brand_Kodak&ci=596&N=4288586376+4291384683
The school where I used this processor had chemistry delivered from a fuji supplier, rather than dealing with b&h retail.
RPNugent
11-Dec-2015, 10:44
The replenisher is sucked up via the hoses coming out of the back of the machine. You will need a 5 liter container to drop the hose into. One of the pages in the manual shows you how to set the replenishment rate for RA4.
I used to buy the 10 liter chemistry as that filled the tanks and gave you 4 liters of replenisher. Initially bought from JOBO then switched to Kodak via whoever I could get to ship it when JOBO stopped shipping Tetenal chemistry. .
Unless things have changes B&H isn't an option as they wouldn't ship RA4 stuff the last time I tried. Looks that way from their website for the sizes you want.
Freestyle and Adorama used to be friendlier about shipping, though you may get a sizable Hazmat fee so watch for that.
Minilab suppliers may be your best bet today. I haven't ordered for a couple years so don't know the current options that well.
https://www.minilab.com/productDetail.asp_Q_catID_E_83_A_subCatID_E_104_A_productID_E_178
EdSawyer
11-Dec-2015, 20:57
Unique photo is the past place I bought chemistry, they had no problem shipping everything. Pakor.com is another option too. The relenishment is automated and Automatically calculated based on throughput. It's a beautiful system, fairly low maintenance when all things are considered. Glad we could help and resurrect that wonderful processor. I too use the 10 L Kodak ra/RT kits as well.
Bob,
Once again thank you for your help. However, I still have some questions. I still don't understand if I only have to buy developer and bleach/fix, or do I also have to buy developer replenisher and bleach/fix replenisher? And one of the photography professors was asking how long the chemicals will last inside the machine once they're put in the baths? Again, only four people will be printing at a time. They will most likely only be using 11x14" paper. If the chemical is inside the machine and is not being used, will it go bad? I'm trying to understand how to best use the chemicals to get the most from it. So if the chemicals will only last two days once loaded, then should the students print as much as possible within the two days? Or will it last longer?
Another question I have is about disposing of the chemicals. Does the developer get dumped down the drain? And I assume the bleach/fix is put in containers for waste disposal. But can I add the bleach/fix with silver fix used for B&W printing? Or is it a bad idea to mix the two different fixer types. It's not a problem to get separate waste containers from the university.
EdSawyer
14-Dec-2015, 20:25
Replenisher and regular solutions are the same for ra4. Just go with the kodak ra/rt stuff. There may be developer starter but that is just really for seasoning a tank for consistency. Chemistry will last at least several days in the machine, more if not exposed to air. Tanks solutions not in the machine will last for months, mixed or not, ideally without air exposure. Best to drain it nightly if you really want to treat things well. Setup and breakdown can be time consuming depending on how clean you want to keep everything.
If not printing larger than 11x14 much, consider sourcing a cp-31. It is smaller and easier to use and clean, and more economical on chemistry, runs on 120v, etc. Save the cp51 for when everyone wants to run big prints.
I dump it all down the drain, usually mixed with some water. The replenishment rate is usually such that it doesn't generate a ton of waste solutions per session.
RPNugent
15-Dec-2015, 06:49
I have attached a couple things to hopefully help out.
The chemistry has a fairly decent shelf life once mixed, but is increased with the floating lid if you can get one or possibly find it if someone got it before. I think I have gone as long as a month to use a 10 liter batch and been OK, but usually use it up faster than that. When I run my CP51 I plan on using it every day for several hours to make sure I get it used before I have to worry about it going bad. Every night I pull the racks from inside the machine and wash them off thoroughly and set them aside outside the machine. I put the floating lid on the chemistry and leave it in the machine rather than draining it, though that is an option. Keep in mind that color processing is in complete darkness until the paper has been fed into the machine and the lid closed. That means if this is in a shared darkroom it's one person at a time using the entire darkroom. Not sure how that will impact you in a multiuser setting.
The others show the actual chemistry except developer which I don't have in house at the moment so included the Adorama link since they ship it.
http://www.adorama.com/KKRADRRT.html?hotlink=t&svfor=5m&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_source=cj_3865412&cvosrc=affiliate.cj.3865412
RPNugent
15-Dec-2015, 07:07
As usual I forgot to answer part of your question.
Like Ed I dump the chemistry down the drain based on the Kodak handling pamphlet which says it is safe for municipal sewer systems. The amount going down the drain with each sheet processed is in milliliter amounts so not huge.
You buy the three part developer kit, developer starter and two part bleach/fix replenisher which makes both the tank BF and provides the replenisher. If you were using it constantly the starter only gets used to "season" the first batch of developer and would not be in the mix again until you completely dump everything and start over from fresh.
Always fill the bleach/fix compartment first and the make sure there has been no splash into the developer section. It takes very little BF to ruin a developer run so avoid contamination at all cost.
Here are the other links you need to know exactly what to order.
http://www.adorama.com/KKRABFR10L.html
http://www.adorama.com/KKRADS.html
Drew Wiley
15-Dec-2015, 10:52
I'd agree that Kodak RA/RT is the most reliable, though Freestyle in LA has a chemically identical Arista substitute kit, which I have tested and have no hesitation
recommending. Don't worry about the paper. Fuji cut-sheet papers work superbly with this chemistry and print well with ordinary optical colorheads. Most of their roll papers do too. But I personally don't like mixing more chem than I need to a given project.
Hi Bob,
Thanks for the links. However, I'm still confused about the chemicals. In the two links you provided I see a Bleach/Replenisher and a Developer Starter. I do not see a link to the three part developer kit you mentioned. is is this one:
http://www.adorama.com/KKRADRRT.html
I get confused by the "replenisher" because I don't have a clear understanding of what the replenisher is and does. Is it just another name for developer?
Many thanks,
Doug
Drew Wiley
29-Dec-2015, 11:50
You can use just starter solutions for limited sessions, provided you don't run more paper through than the overall solution volume can handle, or over enough time
to develop chemical oxidation. Then you have to clean your machine, remix chem, and start over. What a replenisher does is allow you to "top off" the activity of
your solutions, much like partially recharging your cell phone battery on a regular basis and not letting it go dead. Of course, you need to monitor this or have a
program in the machine which does it automatically and feeds in the replensihers from separate reservoirs.
Ed,
Thanks yet again for sharing your knowledge about this. Sorry for the slow response, the semester ended and I was taking a break and spending time with my family.
By the way, I found the manual for the processor and I'm going to scan each page and create a pdf. If anyone ever wants a copy of the pdf please let me know and I'll send it to you.
Ed, Bob, Drew:
Do any of you have specific recommendations for containers? I've been looking at 10 liter containers to mix and hold the chemistry in once I drain it from the machine. It's the link below, from U.S. Plastics. Please let me know if there are ones you recommend for the chemistry and for the drain overflow tank.
http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/item.aspx?sku=78235&gclid=Cj0KEQiA-4i0BRCaudDcrrnDi6kBEiQAZSh5f619HK7SnaQeFpv1s5IxIvdBz31oUrSEk-Z5GwpZzWYaAsLh8P8HAQ
Drew Wiley
30-Dec-2015, 14:07
Most poly plastics should do fine if the lids fit tightly. I wouldn't use the cheap thin kind typically sold in Photo stores.
EdSawyer
31-Dec-2015, 07:33
For drain overflow (which is where the "used" chemistry comes out), I just drain them all into a 5 gallon bucket. If you have a plumbed drain and don't mind dumping it, that's even better.
For supply of fresh chems, which are drawn up by the replenishment unit, I use 5 gallon (I think that is the size - will check - it might be 2.5 gals) Doran tanks with floating lids. It minimizes oxidation of the chemistry. For storing chems from the tanks between use, I use 2-liter coke bottles (PET plastic) with all the air squeezed out. I've been using those with the CP-31 since it has 2L tanks and those work well for the purpose. When I get the CP-51 online, I will probably use 3 2L bottles per solution (Blix and Dev.) for the same purpose.
Those tanks you linked to look nice. The upside of the Doran tanks I use with floating lids is it minimizes air exposure to the replenishment solutions.
These are the ones I use:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/86501-REG/Doran_Plastic_Storage_Tank_5.html
Good luck!
RPNugent
2-Jan-2016, 15:09
Sorry for the delay, was on vacation with family with limited web availability.
The Adorama link you posted is the right 10 liter kit for developer.
The tanks you and Ed linked should both work fine. I used JOBO's 5 liter tanks they sold way back when they were operating in the US. I don't drain the chemistry since I used the floating lids from Fujimoto so 5 liter tanks were fine for me and I have a drain straight to the sewer for my system so didn't need a drain tank, but a bucket will work just fine as long as someone checks to make sure it doesn't overflow.
Replenisher for both developer and blix is just the leftover part of the 10 liter mix that you feed in via tubes from the back of the machine automatically with the CP51 at a rate you set via the instructions shown in one of the illustrations I sent you. Nothing special about it.
It's been quite a while since I mixed up a batch of chemistry but my recollection was you mixed up the batch of developer and added starter to the developer to season and simply drop the feed tube into the remaining chemistry to be your replenisher. With the blix it's just put the 6 liters in the machine and drop a tube in the remainder again.
Hi Ed,
I've finally gotten the processor running. I've been running water through it, but no chemicals yet. I'm trying to make sure everything is running properly before doing so. I've encountered two problems that I'm hoping you or Bob can advise me on. First, the temperature does not seem to be going to what I set it at. I set the high for both baths at 30.5 Celsius and the low at 30. Three times I've run water through the machine and haven't been able to get it to that temperature. I've left it running for over an hour each time. For the Bleach/Fix bath I actually have to keep adding water to it because water leaks out the replenishment take up hose in the back of the machine. I'm hoping that once I put that tube into the Bleach/Fix replenishment tank everything will be fine.
Another problem I noticed tonight is the speed of the machine. I tried loading a sheet of 8x10" paper tonight and it took well over ten minutes for the print to go through the machine. I adjusted the speed dial on the control panel and it didn't help much. I photographed the speed display on the panel and noticed that the speed output was fluctuating greatly. I'm going to attach photos to show you guys what I mean. The photos were taken in chronological order. You will see that the number display varies greatly within the span of five seconds. I'm worried that the motor is malfunctioning. Do either of you have any suggestions about all of this?
Many thanks,
Doug145948145949145950145951
RPNugent
2-Feb-2016, 09:32
I never had a problem of that sort so unfortunately don't have many ideas on how to fix it, both baths heat and stay there +/- 0.2 degrees. It does take a while to get up to temperature depending on how cold the original fluid was, but an hour seems like plenty. I doubt putting the hose in the replenishment tank will stop the leak. You're sure it's coming from the hose and not a leak at the top of the filter receptacle, that's more common as a problem if the filter is over sized or the lid not tight, which happened to me. If not you may have some dried up O rings or something that is allowing the leak.
An 8x10 using RA4 chemistry should feed in about 45 seconds if I remember correctly. That needs a speed setting of 347, which you never got close to. I thought I had a parts list brochure as well as the instruction manual but can't seem to find it. Will keep looking to see if it explains the seals around the replenishment tubes.
Thank you for replying, Bob. And thanks for the suggestions.
You may be right about the hose not leaking. It could be the filter receptacle as you suggested. I'll take a closer look Thursday night when I run the machine again. Another thing I forgot to mention is that the rubber paper guide on the racks probably need to be replaced. When the paper was coming out of the developer rack it was rubbing against the guide - which it looks like it should be doing - but was catching each time the roller rotated forward and pushed the paper out. The rubber guide looks pretty warped which I hadn't noticed before.
I'm adding a picture of how I have the machine set up in the darkroom. I also can send you a video I took last night of the machine running. From the video you can see that the motor seems to be running intermittently and too slowly.
Thanks again for your continued guidance.
145960
Hi Bob and Ed,
I found out what the problem with the machine was. It was running on a 120 volt line. We've now converted the voltage to 240 and the machine is running properly. However, now we've encountered a new problem. The operation control panel doesn't work properly so I cannot set the temperature or see if the machine is warming up to the set temperature. I've looked on the Omegabrandess website for a spare part but they do not provide much information. I've called them and they're trying to find out if they have the part. Below is a link to the item that may be the correct part. Could you guys have a look and let me know what you think? Also, do you know where I could find a replacement operation control panel besides Omegabrandess? Many thanks.
http://www.omegabrandess.com/products/Fujimoto-Processors/FP65162
EdSawyer
4-Mar-2016, 19:33
Yeah, the 220-240v thing would be a real issue. Fortunately I haven't had to troubleshoot the boards on mine, really. Generally there is going to be a thermostat in each tank and it will cycle the heaters based on comparing that to the settings, but beyond that I am not really familiar with a more detailed analysis. Do you have the schematic? Let us know how it works out, I will have a look at mine when I get a chance. It mght require finding a parts unit to scavenge from. I have found spares on occasion but it usually things like rollers and racks, and not electronics.
RPNugent
5-Mar-2016, 06:13
You can send the video to my home email and I can see how it compares to my machine. My displays are a bit quirky, working off and on, though once I get the machine running they stay on. There are hard wired batteries on the panels that may have died and need replacing. You could try emailing Greg Blank who is a member though I'm not sure how active he is now. He used to do the CP51 repairs for Omega at their MD office and may be able to offer more advice. For some reason my browser won't show the picture of the panel, but that sound like the right price compared to what they used to run. Also search the for sale section for CP51. There is a group in Philly who were looking for a spare machine to support the one they got running and may be able to give you some advice based on their experience reviving a machine.
EdSawyer
5-Mar-2016, 08:40
2nd recommendation to get in touch with Greg. he's a good guy. Finding a whole machine to scavenge will be a better/cheaper solution than buying new parts, probably. You could likely find a whole CP51 for the price of that board.
Hi Bob and Ed,
The machine is up and running. I didn't have to buy the operation control panel (which I never found anyways). Last week I plugged it in, loaded it up with water, and turned it on. And everything was working fine. I've been running it with chemicals for three days now and it's working. I've noticed two issues that I'm wondering if you could advise me on. First, there seems to be a faint streaking. The streaks are hard to see but they're there, and they're spaced about a half inch apart. Do you have any idea what could be causing this? The other issue is that the machine will slow down after running for an hour. The rollers will start rotating very, very slowly. I've found that if I turn the machine off and turn it back on it works fine again. It's like the machine needs a reset. Any idea why that's happening? Other than that, we are getting it to work and the students have started printing on it. 148725148725
I've included a picture so you guys can see a sample of one of the student's work from yesterday. Thanks for all your help with this.
RPNugent
23-Mar-2016, 06:19
The machine automatically goes into Stand By mode after 45 minutes if no paper has been put into the system. Is that what you are seeing? Rather than slowing down the rollers stop and start periodically. With regular feeding of paper I have never had mine slow down even after several hours of use.
The inlet paper feed roller could be wet or dirty and be causing the streaks. Clean and dry it and see if that helps. Occasionally developer can splash up on it and it doesn't work quite right when wet.
Also the rollers in the two baths may have some kind of build up on them and could cause it. I don't know if you can still get Processor Clean from Omega, but running a batch of that and using a tuffy sponge to clean any gunk off at the end of the soak in PC may solve the problem. You can drain and save chemistry to run the cleaning.
The only other idea is the gears aren't meshing smoothly to feed things in. To see if that is happening take off the cover and with the lights on run a fully processed print through the system and watch the gears to make sure they turn and mesh smoothly.
It's great to see that you are getting close to having it fully up and running.
EdSawyer
23-Mar-2016, 07:27
Looking good, nice to hear it's up and running!
Streaking: I'd suspect something on the rollers. Did you take those all apart and clean them? If not, I would do so. Is it a physical streak (abrasion?) or light-based (e.g. a light leak?)?
slowdown: I'd suspect some friction or heating issue there. The drivetrain is complex with a lot of moving parts and inherent friction among the gears and bushings. On mine, I took everything apart (rollers/racks/gears/etc) and cleaned and lubed it. I used a waterproof silicone grease but there are other alternatives too probably. Is the slowdown gradual or abrupt? Is the reset immediate, e.g. just switching it fixes things? If so, then it may not be the friction issue I mentioned above, but more likely some sort of electrical gremlin. I am not sure what that would be. Maybe something with replenishment settings/timer or something? Hard to guess.
thanks for the update.
-Ed
RPNugent
23-Mar-2016, 11:29
One other thought along the lines of Ed's electrical concern. What type of 220 plug are you hooking it up to? The book requires a NEMA 6-20R style plug. The two times I have had to have this type of 220 plug installed the electrician has made comments about it being an unusual choice. Something about no neutral I think, but don't remember exactly. Anyway it's not your usual 220 so stretching for explanations that could be a factor.
liweiping
15-Oct-2018, 01:06
I'm sure I have the manual and will try to get it scanned in the next couple of days. DO NOT just fill it with water to test it, doing that wrong will burn out the heater according to the instructions. Have you found the long thin funnels that came with the machine? You need to use them to charge the system and get liquid deep in the reservoir below the visible level. It should have come with two funnels to avoid contamination of the developer with bleach fix. Also do you have the ceramic (or something like it) filters to go in the two holes at the back of the first two tanks. They are key and used to be hard to get.
Do you have the stabilizer version or the running water version, they made both. Less hassle with the stabilizer version as you won't need running temperature controlled water and a drain. Mine is running water, but the instructions deal with both I think, haven't read them in awhile.
You will need some ventilation unless you want a serious headache after a few hours running the machine. Tried it without at first and learned my mistake.
Again I'll try to scan it tomorrow if I get time. They are great machines, dry to dry in minutes. Wish I had time to run mine. Keep debating trying to sell it, but can't quite come around to doing it.
hi i want to know what different from WD and SD now i have a stabilizer version,but i think the last step of RA4 is need water wash,i don't know which stabilizer is need! thanks
RPNugent
15-Oct-2018, 05:36
The WD unit requires tempered running water with a drain to take the overflow water whereas the stabilizer unit doesn't as far as I know. It simply runs the print through the stabilizer bath after the bleach/fix bath without a wash. Unfortunately I have no idea where to get the stabilizer chemistry today. You can always wash and dry separately if you can't find it anywhere.
EdSawyer
15-Oct-2018, 09:55
There's no stabilizer version of RA4, but if you have the SD version for the Fujimoto, I'd say maybe just fill it with water, and change the water out regularly (after a certain number of prints). It's better than nothing, and RA4 washing needs are pretty minor (compared to B&W for example).
liweiping
16-Oct-2018, 06:23
The WD unit requires tempered running water with a drain to take the overflow water whereas the stabilizer unit doesn't as far as I know. It simply runs the print through the stabilizer bath after the bleach/fix bath without a wash. Unfortunately I have no idea where to get the stabilizer chemistry today. You can always wash and dry separately if you can't find it anywhere.
i have a CP51 with the SD, but i found the SD is similar with WD ,so you can watch the pic,i found i can add a pipe on the SD,then it will be changed
to WD.but i don't konw if i used the stabilizer better than water wash in the last step of ra4 ,
RPNugent would you like sent me a pic about the Water tap on the WD,i want to research it Thanks
The stabilizer is easy to get in China
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RPNugent
17-Oct-2018, 07:05
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Here are some photos, sorry for the quality but it's a bit hard to get to the back of my machine. The pdfs are from the CP51 manual showing the back of the WD and SD machines. It looks like you could add an inlet water pipe, but you would need the gray piece at the top as well to allow water to flow from tank 1 to tank 2.
liweiping
17-Oct-2018, 21:35
183449183450183451183452
Here are some photos, sorry for the quality but it's a bit hard to get to the back of my machine. The pdfs are from the CP51 manual showing the back of the WD and SD machines. It looks like you could add an inlet water pipe, but you would need the gray piece at the top as well to allow water to flow from tank 1 to tank 2.
hi thanks for your photo,would u like help me take more photos from the top of the gray pipe, thanks
RPNugent
18-Oct-2018, 05:13
Here is the view from the top.
I think you could just go with the stabilizer if it is that easy to get in China. I'm not sure how much more archival a 30-45 second wash is than the stabilizer.
EdSawyer
18-Oct-2018, 06:22
I stand corrected, there is a stabilizer for RA-4. I was unaware of that. Normal wash calls for 1:30, not just 30-45 seconds. Stabilizer calls for a fairly large amount of flow in place of the wash, approx 1L/min from what I read, if using a single tank. So it would still need to circulate quite a bit.
RPNugent
18-Oct-2018, 11:28
You are right Ed. 45 seconds per bath (which shows how long it's been since I ran mine) and stabilizer module has two baths just like the main body so 1:30 for the two baths. Never having seen a SD module I didn't realize until I read the manual that it has the same circulating tubes that the main body has so I'm not sure how it deals with replenishment without having some connection between the two baths, which might negate the need for the gray tube that joins the two wash baths in the WD version. It might even allow you to use the replenisher tube as your clean water source, but again I'm not sure how they connect.
Maybe liweiping can say if the baths seem to connect when it fills with fluid going into one side filling both or if they require independent filling. If so the gray tube at the top is irrelevant.
Obviously the easy way would be to just use the stabilizer since he can get it.
EdSawyer
18-Oct-2018, 12:27
I have the -51 with the W/D module so can examine it if need be. I believe it also has the 2 baths. As far as replenishment, there is a chart for it (how much per sqft of material, etc.) -it's fairly high compared to the other parts of the RA4 process, something like 4-5x more, a I recall. I think the CP51 has built-in replenishment pumps , at least for the main unit. I would think if there is a replenishment tube, it would probably stand to reason it could be used as a pressurized (how much?) water source for running it as a W/D unit.
From the research I did, I think the stabilizer for RA4 is not considered as archival as a real regular wash, at least according to PE (Ron). Also, you would need a lot of it - the replenishment rate is pretty high, and those tanks hold 6L each.
liweiping
21-Oct-2018, 23:04
You are right Ed. 45 seconds per bath (which shows how long it's been since I ran mine) and stabilizer module has two baths just like the main body so 1:30 for the two baths. Never having seen a SD module I didn't realize until I read the manual that it has the same circulating tubes that the main body has so I'm not sure how it deals with replenishment without having some connection between the two baths, which might negate the need for the gray tube that joins the two wash baths in the WD version. It might even allow you to use the replenisher tube as your clean water source, but again I'm not sure how they connect.
Maybe liweiping can say if the baths seem to connect when it fills with fluid going into one side filling both or if they require independent filling. If so the gray tube at the top is irrelevant.
Obviously the easy way would be to just use the stabilizer since he can get it.
I'm going to try adding an intake pipe to make SD to WD, so I can use two ways to wash, and test which of these two options is better, but what is the basis for judging? Can you give me an instruction manual for your CP51? My email is liweiping79@gmail.com.
RPNugent
22-Oct-2018, 05:14
I'll try to scan the manual this week. It's a lot of pages so will take a bit of time.
liweiping
22-Oct-2018, 06:33
I'll try to scan the manual this week. It's a lot of pages so will take a bit of time.
thanks for your help :o
EdSawyer
22-Oct-2018, 07:14
I posted it here:
http://www.edsawyer.com/lens/Fujimoto_CP51_owners_manual.pdf
not sure how long I will leave it there, but for a while at least.
as for basis for judging wash vs. stabilizer - not easily done, since the issue would be long-term degradation or storage, which won't show up for a while.
-Ed
RPNugent
24-Oct-2018, 07:30
Ed has posted the Main Body manual section. I will email you a pdf of the WD and SD instructions section.
EdSawyer
24-Oct-2018, 08:45
I have other docs I can post too, maintenance and cleaning recommendations, etc. There's a service manual for it somewhere, but I don't think I have it offhand. I might have the CP-31 service manual though.
brucetaylor
24-Oct-2018, 16:16
Concerning the stabilizer/wash question, I have a Beseler unit with 4 baths. The 4th one the running water rinse, but I want to run a stabilizer. I end up splitting the difference, a short water rinse (3) and then a run though the stabilizer (4). Works okay so far, though it will be years before I see if there is a problem.
Duolab123
24-Oct-2018, 20:37
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No 6 liters per bath no stabilizer, develop, stop,blix wash dry (with Ilford dryer ) 3.5 minutes dry to dry 75ml for the little one up to 11x14, 150mm for the big one upto 16 x 20 . Everyone makes fun of these. No time to warm up both have heaters, you don't need to pre-heat chemicals. With Thomas safelights you can see what you are doing. You can even develop sheet film. Works great for black and white too.
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