4x5 Sheet film availability and its future

[alen]

Hi

I plan on moving from digital to film photography full time. I love the detail that can be extracted from 4x5 and the quality and large size of prints. I currently shoot using Digital and Film using a Nikon D800 and Hasselblad 500c respectively. On the Hasselblad, i can readily purchase a roll of Fuji Velvia 50 - 120 film over a counter.
However from my limited research, sheet film, particularly Fuji velvia range has been discontinued but some stock can be bought from ebay. But what then, once theyve sold out, what other sheet films are still available and which are suitable for nature and landscape photography? Apologies for the rather "fresh" questions, im still pretty new to Large format and would appreciate your honest feedback. Last thing i want to do is sell my digital gear, spend thousands on a Linhof master technika 4x5 and find out its redundant.

Thanks.

[biedron]

Well, predicting future discontinuations requires a better crystal ball than the one I have. Fujifilm is particularly inscrutable.

Velvia sheet film is in fact not discontinued (near as I can tell), but Velvia 50 hasn't been sold fresh in the US since about 2012. Velvia 100 and Provia 100F sheet film continue to be available in the US through retailers like http://www.badgergraphic.com (and the big guys like Adorama and BHPhotovideo). Fresh stock of Velvia 50 (and others) is available from Japan, either through Ebayers as you noted, or through places such as Japan Exposures http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/film-analog/film/sheet-film/?features_hash=3-1&currency=USD. Last year a member here (StoneNYC) organized a bulk buy from a Japanese reseller at a good price - not sure if he is still doing that.

As far as alternatives for landscape photography goes, many folks use Kodak Ektar 100 color negative film.

You can do what I do: stock up now and freeze it for future use - this has the added advantage of keeping it from the hoarders :)

I think you will enjoy shooting large format film. I also moved over from digital and haven't looked back. But the general advice is to start "slow" - i.e. not the most expensive camera at the start. Put your money in lenses at first. After shooting for a while you will have a better idea what you prefer in a camera, and you can resell your starter camera and get the "ideal" one.

Hope this helps.

Bob

[StoneNYC]

Well, predicting future discontinuations requires a better crystal ball than the one I have. Fujifilm is particularly inscrutable.

Velvia sheet film is in fact not discontinued (near as I can tell), but Velvia 50 hasn't been sold fresh in the US since about 2012. Velvia 100 and Provia 100F sheet film continue to be available in the US through retailers like http://www.badgergraphic.com (and the big guys like Adorama and BHPhotovideo). Fresh stock of Velvia 50 (and others) is available from Japan, either through Ebayers as you noted, or through places such as Japan Exposures http://www.japanexposures.com/shop/film-analog/film/sheet-film/?features_hash=3-1&currency=USD. Last year a member here (StoneNYC) organized a bulk buy from a Japanese reseller at a good price - not sure if he is still doing that.

As far as alternatives for landscape photography goes, many folks use Kodak Ektar 100 color negative film.

You can do what I do: stock up now and freeze it for future use - this has the added advantage of keeping it from the hoarders :)

I think you will enjoy shooting large format film. I also moved over from digital and haven't looked back. But the general advice is to start "slow" - i.e. not the most expensive camera at the start. Put your money in lenses at first. After shooting for a while you will have a better idea what you prefer in a camera, and you can resell your starter camera and get the "ideal" one.

Hope this helps.

Bob

I still do the group buys, I created a Facebook page to organize it actually. For Velvia50 4x5 and 8x10. And also 8x10 Acros100.

Here's the link, (PS I'm not a business, I do this for the community so I don't think I'm violating any rules by sharing here since the question was raised) I was able to get it at a price that's slightly lower than Japan exposures but it does take some planning since I do it as a group buy when enough people are ready to order (at least 5 boxes) which makes it worth all the effort for my contact in Japan.

Here's the actual page...

https://www.facebook.com/8x10Velvia50/

And here's the current price list...

https://www.facebook.com/8x10Velvia50/posts/1519515318364212

You do NOT need to be a member of Facebook to view the links since I know some member are adverse to joining Facebook, I made the settings on the group open to view.

The prices for Fuji just went up unfortunately from last year by a significant amount, but because of my contact, the total price is still lower than Japan exposures and I was able to tier it and still give free shipping to US members.

As far as 4x5 it will be around a long time, 8x10 color is the only thing I'm worried about personally since that's the format I shoot these days, but at least another 5 years on that. Perhaps by then FILMferrania will have some color sheet film options.

Don't worry, film isn't going away anytime soon, despite what you may read, film will be here for a while.

[alen]

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. Gives me confidence going forward with my plans, knowing there are still quite a few options in the foreseeable future.
Also thank you for sharing info about the group buy for Velvia film, though im not sure how it would work as im in Australia and there would be separate or double shipping (first to US, then to AUS). Ill keep it in mind but its likely ill purchase directly from them myself to keep it simple.

Lastly, about freezing film, is it as simple as it seems: Freeze film until you plan to use it, thaw out (perhaps in fridge before taking it out in room temp) and use? What about dew/condensation?

[StoneNYC]

Thanks guys, appreciate the feedback. Gives me confidence going forward with my plans, knowing there are still quite a few options in the foreseeable future.
Also thank you for sharing info about the group buy for Velvia film, though im not sure how it would work as im in Australia and there would be separate or double shipping (first to US, then to AUS). Ill keep it in mind but its likely ill purchase directly from them myself to keep it simple.

Lastly, about freezing film, is it as simple as it seems: Freeze film until you plan to use it, thaw out (perhaps in fridge before taking it out in room temp) and use? What about dew/condensation?

Freeze only unopened sealed bags (inside the box)

Kodak/Fuji seal there bags

Rollie/Ilford do not

However as long as your box is kept from frost by another container you're fine.

Either way a frost free freezer is a BAD idea as those fluctuate in temperature so actually the old frosting freezers are best.

Thaw out 2 days in fridge, then 1 day in ambient temps.

You should be safe with that procedure. You just want to keep moisture from attaching to the emulsion and then damaging it either by crystallizing/freezing and cracking the emulsion, or by thawing too fast getting condensation to form between the sheets.

Good luck!

[vinny]

Thaw for a few hours (more for 50 sheet/100sheet boxes) at room temp.

[Drew Wiley]

There are some sea changes going on relative to the selection of chrome sheet film. Change itself seems to be a constant in photography. Velvia is not the most
printable chrome film out there anyway. The future of chrome film largely lies in the hands of Fuji now, just as color neg film is dominated by Kodak, so dependent on the "whatevers" of Kodak's own corporate survival. Prices are climbing dramatically, and about the best advice I can give is to get a freezer. That should allow you at least another decade of some preferred color film. But you might as well do it while you can. Large format photography is a very rewarding experience. But to keep my own addiction to it somewhat within reason, financially, I also shoot black and white, which seems to be in no danger whatsoever in terms of film and printing paper. Equipment-wise, at least you won't have to worry about things going obsolete every few years, or about software upgrades. One of my favorite cameras is 50 years old, and I'm currently refurbishing an enlarger probably of the same vintage. Both could easily last another 50.

[Jerry Bodine]

One of my favorite cameras is 50 years old

I'm thinking that would be your Sinar Norma. Right? A masterpiece of engineering.

[SMBooth]

Alen,

Group buys happen in Australia too, you dont need to double ship. It may help to put your country in the profile so the information you get is relevant to your area. Both Freestyle and B&H are the best way for you to buy new film.

[StoneNYC]

Alen,

Group buys happen in Australia too, you dont need to double ship. It may help to put your country in the profile so the information you get is relevant to your area. Both Freestyle and B&H are the best way for you to buy new film.

B&H et al don't sell Velvia50 in sheets sadly.

Once an Auzzie flew all the way to America and drove to my house to pick up his boxes of Velvia50 8x10 :) that was pretty cool, great guy too.

Ok so he was planning to be here anyway for other purposes, but it was still fun to have a member from the LFF from Australia in my kitchen :)

Plus he saved on shipping :)

[Drew Wiley]

Jerry - yeah, I've been using the Norma quite a bit lately for several of reasons. It's been unusually cold here, and only a few hours a day are reasonably comfortable, so lugging a 4x5 is a bit smarter than an 8x10 folder w/bigger tipod for moving quickly up n' down hills without tweaking cold muscles or joints. Then I'm trending to a lot of long lens narrow perspective shots, and the long monorail concept is ideal for that; and third, I really don't want to thaw out any 8X10 color film at the moment due to its replacement expense, so am conserving that for a more appropriate time of year. But I consider the Norma to be a nearly ideal field
camera overall.

[Sirius Glass]

Welcome to Large Format Photography Forum

I also use Hasselblads.

When I find out that a film is being discontinued to buy up what I can and stash it in the freezer. I keep the disappearing films from the hoarders. I also keep a back up supply of available films so that I can quickly get as much film as I need at the moment.

[alen]

Thanks again everyone, appreciate the welcome and the comments. Good news about group buys and shipping to AUS, ill keep an eye out for that.

I've just recently bought a Linhof Master Technika, pending pickup and payment! So its exciting days ahead and look forward to the new year. Ill learn using black and white as I come to grips with learning the linhof, but am exciting by its potential! Also be keeping an eye out on the forums for tips and tricks as well.

[Wayne]

If you're planning to learn to print in a darkroom without any digital steps Ektar and Portra 100 is about the only game in town for large format color. Direct positive printing materials (for printing directly from chromes) no longer exist except in a few geezer's freezers (like mine, where it has probably gone bad). The premier positive process, Ilfochrome (formerly Cibachrome) went belly up a few years ago.



Hi

I plan on moving from digital to film photography full time. I love the detail that can be extracted from 4x5 and the quality and large size of prints. I currently shoot using Digital and Film using a Nikon D800 and Hasselblad 500c respectively. On the Hasselblad, i can readily purchase a roll of Fuji Velvia 50 - 120 film over a counter.
However from my limited research, sheet film, particularly Fuji velvia range has been discontinued but some stock can be bought from ebay. But what then, once theyve sold out, what other sheet films are still available and which are suitable for nature and landscape photography? Apologies for the rather "fresh" questions, im still pretty new to Large format and would appreciate your honest feedback. Last thing i want to do is sell my digital gear, spend thousands on a Linhof master technika 4x5 and find out its redundant.

Thanks.

[alen]

If you're planning to learn to print in a darkroom without any digital steps Ektar and Portra 100 is about the only game in town for large format color. Direct positive printing materials (for printing directly from chromes) no longer exist except in a few geezer's freezers (like mine, where it has probably gone bad). The premier positive process, Ilfochrome (formerly Cibachrome) went belly up a few years ago.

Yeah i was late to this and discovered Cobachrome/Ilfochrome earlier this year, one of the photographers i like (Christopher Burkett) has been using this process for ages and the finish looks fantastic! Too bad its discontinued. Ill end up getting high res drum scans of my direct positives and go down that path. Ive seen some impressive results and really look forward to this too. This with Fuji Flex print might be the next best thing, though its up to the eye of the beholder in the end.

[Fr. Mark]

With proper color separation filters you can get to full color from B/W negs and any of several contact printing processes. Gelatin, glass and silver nitrate will be around a long while, I hope.

[Wayne]

Is anyone actually still doing fully analog tri-color though? I know people are doing it with PS and digital negatives . I've wanted to try the analog method but am way too lazy/impatient/cheap.



With proper color separation filters you can get to full color from B/W negs and any of several contact printing processes. Gelatin, glass and silver nitrate will be around a long while, I hope.

[dwross]

I play with it. More work maybe, but also more fun :).

[Wayne]

I play with it. More work maybe, but also more fun :).

Do you have any examples posted anywhere of fully analog tricolors?

[dwross]

Hi! Wayne,

Thank you for asking. I really am still just playing. I put the work down for a while to finish a book, but I'm back at it and having a ball, but not posting pics yet.
I probably shouldn't have responded to your question in #17. My work is likely not what you have in mind, but for what it's worth, here's what I can show you (warning: nerd alert!).
http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmltutgen.py?content=05Sep2013
http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgen.py?content=24Nov2013

Handmade emulsions aside, BW commercial panchromatic film will likely be around for a good long time. There are quite a few beautiful color processes from all along the timeline that can be made with separation negatives. I made the easiest -- three-color gum prints -- in school. It was fun, and not hard. Have to want to, but that's a different issue :).

[Drew Wiley]

Sure, a number of individual are doing true film tricolor photography. It's kinda tricky in the field because things can move between exposures, that is, if your
exposures are sequential rather than simultaneous. You'll find more info on this kind of thing on carbon printing or dye transfer forums than here. A few people have even gone to the substantial trouble and expense to refurish and re-lens old Devin and Curtis sheet film tri-exposure cameras. Film still offers distinct advantages in term of the quality of color reproduction, though it's obviously more logistically demanding. Todd Gangler, a well know color carbon printer, had an
exhibition of this kind of thing not terribly long ago.

[Fr. Mark]

Could we take a slide (E6) (or color (c41) with more steps) picture put it in a b/w enlarger with cutting filters and make the (enlarged) negatives that way? This is sort of an analog approach to the same thing where we scan the color film and use PS to make the separations. This would avoid the three exposures movement problem. I will have to look up those multiple exposure cameras. I'd thought about building a stereo LF camera around 4" projector lenses but 3 lenses... Or figuring out a beam splitter? Scary. Heck put four lenses on it and make it a sort TLR ?qlr? (Quad lens reflex). For distant subjects it might work w/o color fringing. Maybe? Synchronizing 3 shutters---zip tie the cable releases together?? It'd be a strange camera. Maybe a simple way to build would be to use zone plates or pinholes and in camera filters. Don't know when I will ever have time to work on all these ideas.

[Wayne]

Thanks Denise. I like your models. :)


Hi! Wayne,

Thank you for asking. I really am still just playing. I put the work down for a while to finish a book, but I'm back at it and having a ball, but not posting pics yet.
I probably shouldn't have responded to your question in #17. My work is likely not what you have in mind, but for what it's worth, here's what I can show you (warning: nerd alert!).
http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmltutgen.py?content=05Sep2013
http://www.thelightfarm.com/cgi-bin/htmlgen.py?content=24Nov2013

Handmade emulsions aside, BW commercial panchromatic film will likely be around for a good long time. There are quite a few beautiful color processes from all along the timeline that can be made with separation negatives. I made the easiest -- three-color gum prints -- in school. It was fun, and not hard. Have to want to, but that's a different issue :).