Anyone used Hydrogen Peroxide to prevent fungus in carbon printing?

[Max Hao]

I noticed some fungus on tissues I poured. I learned that Hydrogen Peroxide (H2O2) is good for killing off the fungus, but not sure what it does to gelatin. Is it an overkill if I added a few drops of this stuff in the gelatin?

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Max, you need to get the tissue dry faster. Use a fan to blow air on the tissue to dry it faster. I hang mine up and put fans on it for at least 24 hours. Never needed H2O2. What is your humidity?

[koraks]

Yeah, agree with Jim. Fungus means excess humidity. Under normal indoor conditions in a well-ventilated home, fungus doesn't have time to take hold as tissue dries. If it occurs during long-term storage, the storage location apparently isn't dry enough or the tissue is placed there before it has dried properly. In my house, tissue generally needs about 3 days to get really dry to the touch and about a week to dry all the way through. Dry tissue feels brittle; if it feels supple, it's not entirely dry yet.

[Michael Mutmansky]

I don't have experience making carbon tissue, but Thymol is used in other processes for a similar purpose. I don't believe that it is considered detrimental to the processes it is used in, whereas hydrogen peroxide will mess with the relative speed and contract of some of these processes.

Might want to look into putting a trace amount of Thymol into the goo before you coat the tissue. See if others have done this with success.


---Michael

[Drew Wiley]

Old-style brown Listerine is thymol. A small amt of that should work.

[Andrew O'Neill]

It must be quite humid where you are. I do my carbon work in the winter as the temperatures are better and it's much drier. Do as Jim suggested. Get your tissues to dry faster with a fan.

[Max Hao]

Many thanks for all the responses. Great carbon printers' community here. My home is generally pretty dry but maybe it's because the snow these couple of days. It took 4 days for the tissue to get dry enough. A follow up question would be, how do you place the tissues to get dry? If you put it vertical the top part might slide a little. I just place them flat on a shelf.

[Vaughn]

Once the gelatin has set (5 min in a cold room) I tack the tissues onto cardboard and stand them up verticallly. No movement of the gelatin. I then put a fan on the tissues for the first 12 hours (I pour thick tissues) and completely dry within 48 hours. This is at ~60% Rh.

Without the fan, I get mold.

[Max Hao]

I don't have experience making carbon tissue, but Thymol is used in other processes for a similar purpose. I don't believe that it is considered detrimental to the processes it is used in, whereas hydrogen peroxide will mess with the relative speed and contract of some of these processes.

Might want to look into putting a trace amount of Thymol into the goo before you coat the tissue. See if others have done this with success.


---Michael

Thanks Michael. I remembered somewhere thymol was mentioned as antifungus stuff. I'll give it a try if I can't get the tissues dry quick enough.
Cheers,
Max

[Max Hao]

Once the gelatin has set (5 min in a cold room) I tack the tissues onto cardboard and stand them up verticallly. No movement of the gelatin. I then put a fan on the tissues for the first 12 hours (I pour thick tissues) and completely dry within 48 hours. This is at ~60% Rh.

Without the fan, I get mold.

Thanks Vaughn. I just finished pouring a batch this morning :) Will try out vertical.
Cheers,
Max

[Jim Fitzgerald]

As Vaughn says vertical is the way to go. I use cardboard as well and hang them from a clothes line in my dim room. I put a couple of fans on them and leave it on as long as needed. I too have high humidity at times 50-60%. Also thick and large tissue takes time to dry. I print 14 x 17 and they can take a few days to dry completely. Once dry I store them in the plastic bags that print paper comes in. Keeps them protected.

[Andrew O'Neill]

I hang all of mine up (maximum 10) facing a gentle, oscillating fan. Dry in 12 hours in the winter here.

[koraks]

I place them horizontally for the first day or so and then hang them from a clothesline. I don't use a fan or anything. RH is between 40 and 60 where I live. I haven't had any issues with mold yet.

[Max Hao]

As Vaughn says vertical is the way to go. I use cardboard as well and hang them from a clothes line in my dim room. I put a couple of fans on them and leave it on as long as needed. I too have high humidity at times 50-60%. Also thick and large tissue takes time to dry. I print 14 x 17 and they can take a few days to dry completely. Once dry I store them in the plastic bags that print paper comes in. Keeps them protected.

Jim,
14x17 is a beautiful size. The biggest camera I have is 11x14. Once I got to bigger than 8x10, the chances of making mistakes is many many many times more, even starting from loading the film. But when looking at a large size good print you would say to yourself all the trouble is worth it.
Happy printing!

Max

[Max Hao]

I place them horizontally for the first day or so and then hang them from a clothesline. I don't use a fan or anything. RH is between 40 and 60 where I live. I haven't had any issues with mold yet.

Thanks. RH at my home is around 40 to 50 in winter time. I pour 2.5mm thick when wet, maybe too thick?

[Max Hao]

I hang all of mine up (maximum 10) facing a gentle, oscillating fan. Dry in 12 hours in the winter here.

Thanks Andrew. This is the way to go.
I started carbon about two years ago. Now I came to understand better the things between pigment load, exposure, negative DR, and others. I like carbon prints even more than traditional silver prints.

[koraks]

I only pour to 1mm, so they'll dry quicker. Sounds like forced circulation is the way to go indeed.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Jim,
14x17 is a beautiful size. The biggest camera I have is 11x14. Once I got to bigger than 8x10, the chances of making mistakes is many many many times more, even starting from loading the film. But when looking at a large size good print you would say to yourself all the trouble is worth it.
Happy printing!

Max

Max, I must say that for me 14 x 17 has more "presence" than 11 x 14. Don't get me wrong I have several beautiful 11 x 14 carbon prints. 14 x 17 is not easy the older I get. It is getting harder at 65 to haul the beast around be it on my back or in the cart I sometimes use. Getting it on the tripod is fun as well. The hardest part is pulling a good carbon print. So much can go wrong the bigger you go but when you get a good print all I can say is wow! It is absolutely worth the effort.

[Willie]

Even with HEPA filters going, how do you keep lint or hair particles off the tissue?

[Jim Fitzgerald]

I have a dedicated room that I use to pour my tissue in. Not a lot of cleaning going on in there to stir up any dust. No problems with lint or hair and I have no beard to worry about!

[sanking]

I have never used hydrogen peroxide as a preservative for carbon tissue, but would hesitate to use it without testing, or advice from a good carbon printer, because it is a strong oxidizer and might interere with the process.

My standard tissue forumula uses 1-2 ml per liter of glop of a 30% solution of thymol in isopropyl alcohol as a preservative. The addition of thymol prevents mold in slow drying, and in my experience also contributes to long term stability of carbon tissue. The thymol solution also severs as a dispersant. There is no down side to the use of thymol solution in tissue so far as I can see.

Ventilation from a fan promotes faster drying. I dry tissue on drying panels, in horizointal orientation. Depending on RH the tissue may curl a bit during drying. After dry, I roll the tissue around a large diameter tube for storage. At RH of 40% my tissue, made with a 10% gelatin solution to wet height of 1 mm (150 ml of solution per 12X19" tissue), dries in less than 12 hours, with ventialtion from a fan. With RH in the 55%-65% range drying the same tissue will take 24-30 hours.

Sandy

[Max Hao]

Max, I must say that for me 14 x 17 has more "presence" than 11 x 14. Don't get me wrong I have several beautiful 11 x 14 carbon prints. 14 x 17 is not easy the older I get. It is getting harder at 65 to haul the beast around be it on my back or in the cart I sometimes use. Getting it on the tripod is fun as well. The hardest part is pulling a good carbon print. So much can go wrong the bigger you go but when you get a good print all I can say is wow! It is absolutely worth the effort.

Jim, I can't agree more. While I can play with the big cameras I just enjoy the days. The first 11x14 I bought is all metal, and the beast is almost 40 pounds. It's tricky to mount it to the tripod because I had to try to find the screw to fit while holding the 40 pounds steady. I now use a wood camera. I'm still playing around more with 8x10, and leaving the bigger format for more 'serious' shots. Ordering film is another issue. 11x14 is quite pricy when I do get hold of it.

[Max Hao]

I have never used hydrogen peroxide as a preservative for carbon tissue, but would hesitate to use it without testing, or advice from a good carbon printer, because it is a strong oxidizer and might interere with the process.

My standard tissue forumula uses 1-2 ml per liter of glop of a 30% solution of thymol in isopropyl alcohol as a preservative. The addition of thymol prevents mold in slow drying, and in my experience also contributes to long term stability of carbon tissue. The thymol solution also severs as a dispersant. There is no down side to the use of thymol solution in tissue so far as I can see.

Ventilation from a fan promotes faster drying. I dry tissue on drying panels, in horizointal orientation. Depending on RH the tissue may curl a bit during drying. After dry, I roll the tissue around a large diameter tube for storage. At RH of 40% my tissue, made with a 10% gelatin solution to wet height of 1 mm (150 ml of solution per 12X19" tissue), dries in less than 12 hours, with ventialtion from a fan. With RH in the 55%-65% range drying the same tissue will take 24-30 hours.

Sandy

Thanks Sandy. All good information. I'm wasting glop pouring 2 mm :(
I noticed when using different paper, I needed to expose a bit more. Or is it because I left the sensitized tissue 30 minutes longer for drying? Sometimes when I thought I understood the relations between various factors, it started to give me surprises.

[Jim Fitzgerald]

Max, I will say that the nice thing about shooting 14 x 17( mine is 31lbs.) is that when you go to 8 x 10 it is a point and shoot! So light and easy to use.
Thick tissue takes more time to dry when pouring and sensitizing. I've waited 4 hours after sensitizing and not seen a huge difference. But I'm no scientist either so it is just my .02 from experience. It is all about finding a balance.

[Max Hao]

Max, I will say that the nice thing about shooting 14 x 17( mine is 31lbs.) is that when you go to 8 x 10 it is a point and shoot! So light and easy to use.
Thick tissue takes more time to dry when pouring and sensitizing. I've waited 4 hours after sensitizing and not seen a huge difference. But I'm no scientist either so it is just my .02 from experience. It is all about finding a balance.
Thanks Jim. I'm exploring with different papers. The watercolor paper I used gave a more artistic look, but less photographic. The good thing about carbon print is we can be free from BW photo papers, which become difficult to get hold of these days.