Compur shutter serial numbers

[humdee]

I have two rim-set Compur shutters with 6-digit serial numbers prefixed by the letter "A" and with Zeiss lenses. According to the serial number lists that are on-line, the numbers themselves would date these from before rim-set Compurs were made. Something doesn't add up. Does anyone know what the "A" prefix on the serial no. means?

[David Lindquist]

Based on what I have, I think they must have started their serial number sequence over with an "A" prefix at some point (post WW II?). In particular I have an f/7.7 Ektar made in 1959 (S/N RT xxx) in a No. 1 Compur shutter, s/n A554776. That's a lower number than my oldest dial set Compur, s/n 573039. I also have several C.P. Goerz Am. Opt. Co./ Goerz Optical Co., Inc lenses in No. 1 Compur shutters bearing serial numbers with an "A" pre-fix.

I'd really like to see serial number data for these later Compur shutters. I'd really really like to see serial number data for Goerz lenses beyond what seems to be currently available (about 779xxx).

Refreshing my memory here: http://motamedi.info/serial.htm,
It looks like the "highest" non-A prefixed Compur shutter serial number is 8,500,000, circa 1952. So I'm guessing they started over with an "A" prefix after that.

And the "highest" American made Goerz serial number on this site is 791,500, circa 1955.
David

[humdee]

Thanks for the reply.
So both of us have 2 No. 1 Compurs with an A prefix, and the serial number lists don't mention this at all. Hmm. BTW, I expect both of mine are pre-war (no flash sync, old style script).

[David Lindquist]

Thanks for the reply.
So both of us have 2 No. 1 Compurs with an A prefix, and the serial number lists don't mention this at all. Hmm. BTW, I expect both of mine are pre-war (no flash sync, old style script).

Well that certainly doesn't fit with my speculations about when the "A" prefix came in to use ;). What lenses do you have mounted in these? That could help date them. Arne Croell has some publications here: http://www.arnecroell.com/publications about both Carl Zeiss Jena and Carl Zeiss Oberkochen that I think include information on serial numbers and years of production.

David

[humdee]

Well that certainly doesn't fit with my speculations about when the "A" prefix came in to use ;). What lenses do you have mounted in these? That could help date them. Arne Croell has some publications here: http://www.arnecroell.com/publications about both Carl Zeiss Jena and Carl Zeiss Oberkochen that I think include information on serial numbers and years of production.


The lenses are both f4.5 Zeiss Tessars, one 15cm (from 1930 based on serial no.), the other 13.5 (1939, and it's on a 1941 Speed Graphic). The interesting thing about the 13.5 lens and its shutter is that the first and last two digits of the lens serial no. match the first and last two digits of the shutter's serial no. Perhaps manufactured as matched pairs for Graflex?

[Embdude]

I also have a rim set Compur with an A preceding a 6 digit number (A468509)... It houses a CZJ Tessar with a late 1939 date, and was with a Technika II from the early 1940's. The shutter appears to be the same vintage as the lens and camera. The large format rim set compur disappeared immediately following wwII (summer 1945) and only dial set compur were sold for a couple of years until the newer rim set reappeared with flash sync. It has been speculated this was because of damage the Munich factory received when it was bombed twice near the end of WWII... does anyone know the details?

[Sean Mac]

A579254 Synchro Compur with PC synch socket and CZJ 210 F6.3 Tessar 5902857.

Came to me recently along with a side rangefinder Crown Graphic that had a '47 Ektar 127F4.5 on it.

Beautiful little shutter with plenty of aperture blades.

:)

[David Lindquist]

A579254 Synchro Compur with PC synch socket and CZJ 210 F6.3 Tessar 5902857.

Came to me recently along with a side rangefinder Crown Graphic that had a '47 Ektar 127F4.5 on it.

Beautiful little shutter with plenty of aperture blades.

:)

Per Hartmut Thiele's Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II Carl Zeiss Jena your 6.3 210 mm Tessar s/n 5902857 was one of a batch of 50, production of which started 29 April 1960. Further it was originally in a barrel mount. According to Arne Cröll a total of only 125 post World War II Carl Zeiss Jena 210 mm f/6.3 Tessars were mounted by the factory in the No. 1 Compur shutter, see here: https://www.arnecroell.com/czj.pdf I think his source is Thiele.

I don't think it's uncommon to see examples of these original barrel mount Tessars that have subsequently been mounted in a shutter. I have one, s/n 7,209,548; one of a batch of only four for which production began 29 July 1965. Its No. 1 Compur doesn't have a serial number.

David

[Sean Mac]

Per Hartmut Thiele's Fabrikationsbuch Photooptik II Carl Zeiss Jena your 6.3 210 mm Tessar s/n 5902857 was one of a batch of 50, production of which started 29 April 1960. Further it was originally in a barrel mount. According to Arne Cröll a total of only 125 post World War II Carl Zeiss Jena 210 mm f/6.3 Tessars were mounted by the factory in the No. 1 Compur shutter, see here: https://www.arnecroell.com/czj.pdf I think his source is Thiele.

I don't think it's uncommon to see examples of these original barrel mount Tessars that have subsequently been mounted in a shutter. I have one, s/n 7,209,548; one of a batch of only four for which production began 29 July 1965. Its No. 1 Compur doesn't have a serial number.

David

Thank you for taking the time to post this.

I haven't used the lens yet.

The Crown Graphic is now in the hands of my niece :rolleyes:

I'm hoping it will be a workable alternative to an 8 1/2inch Commercial Ektar that just barely fits in my technika when its closed.

Thanks again....

:)

[David Lindquist]

Thank you for taking the time to post this.

I haven't used the lens yet.

The Crown Graphic is now in the hands of my niece :rolleyes:

I'm hoping it will be a workable alternative to an 8 1/2inch Commercial Ektar that just barely fits in my technika when its closed.

Thanks again....

:)

I'm surprised your 8 1/2 inch Commercial Ektar even barely fits in your Technika when closed.

I'd known that the f6.3 Tessar covered a greater angle than its faster brethren but I didn't realize that it covered 70º stopped down until I re-read Arne Cröll's report that I cited above. The Commercial Ektars were described as covering an angle of 64º stopped down; the Symmar (plasmat formula) and the Symmar-S were said to cover 70º stopped down.

I think we are all aware of the caveats associated with the claims/statements of coverage of large format lenses. :D

David

[chris73]

I collect and have handled many little Retinas.
So far i have only found rim set Compurs with an A preceding an 6 digit serial on the 149 model (1939-40).
Range of serials between A058370 to A206573.
Also all that little "A" shutters have only 3 shutter blades and one can say the blade "compound" is inferior to the non "A" little Compurs that hold not only 5 blades but are of more "shophisticated" engineering design.

I have no further clues :)

[Sean Mac]

I'm surprised your 8 1/2 inch Commercial Ektar even barely fits in your Technika when closed.

I'd known that the f6.3 Tessar covered a greater angle than its faster brethren but I didn't realize that it covered 70º stopped down until I re-read Arne Cröll's report that I cited above. The Commercial Ektars were described as covering an angle of 64º stopped down; the Symmar (plasmat formula) and the Symmar-S were said to cover 70º stopped down.

I think we are all aware of the caveats associated with the claims/statements of coverage of large format lenses. :D

David

In my innocence I planned to use the Technika with a 100mm Wide Field Ektar and the 8 1/2" Commercial Ektar.

This summer has shown me the error of my ways...

The plan for next year is all Geman glass and shutters.

90mm Rodenstock and 210mm Zeiss.

The 90mm F6.8 Grandagon is in a Compur 0 that has no serial number :rolleyes: