Pyrocat safety/cleanup

[RodinalDuchamp]

I have been using pyro now for about 6 months as a main developer. I have always worn gloves, don a long sleeve shirt/coat and try to limit exposure as highly as possible.

That being said I've started wondering if Pyro is spilled is there a proper protocol for neutralizing the dangerous parts? Is simply warm soapy water enough? I usually take a small steam cleaner to the floor after I'm done just in case anythings been spilled.

I wonder if vinegar or baking soda may deactivate any dangers. My fear is that if I were to spill on the floor and it dries, What if someone walked over it barefoot? Would dry pyro potentially be harmful?

[Peter De Smidt]

Yes, dried pyro could be harmful.

[RodinalDuchamp]

Oh an additionally. Once the Pyro has been used to develop film, does it become any less or more dangerous? I believe I read once the developer interacts with the emulsion it becomes neutralized and that it wasn't as dangerous as straight from the bottle.

I've looked all over the internet but haven't found a satisfying answer.

[Jim C.]

Isn't Pyrocat, pyrocatechol ?
You can always look up the MSDS using pyrocatechol or if the container has a CAS number use that to get a MSDS
or more info on accidental spill procedures.

Found this -

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0109.pdf

[Liquid Artist]

There should be an MSDS sheet available for all photographic chemicals.

In the case of Pyrocat HD Freestyle has a link to the PDF.
My phone won't let me post the link.

[RodinalDuchamp]

I have read the MSDS but there is not such mention of a means to neutralize this substance. The spill portion of the MSDS says only to wipe up or sweep spills no additional steps are listed.

[Liquid Artist]

It should be the same for getting on your skin.

If it doesn't list anything else then it must be considered as Non Hazardous.

I do have a transportation of dangerous goods book in my car.
I will see if pyrocatechol is listed in it.
If it is I will let you know what it says, if not I won't.
I don't expect it to list anything related.

[Wayne]

I doubt the emulsion neutralization rumor is anything more than rumor. I'm no chemist but I've never heard that said for any other reducing agent, so I highly doubt its true for p-cat.

Having said that, I don't think you need to worry about "neutralizing" spills, you just need to clean them up good. There shouldn't be anything left for a barefoot person to step into if you clean it up good. Make sure the area around your wet space is spongeable/ moppable. Don't have it carpeted, like I do (which I shouldn't, but I don't use pyro/pyrocat either).

[Michael R]

Spilled working solution is far less dangerous than spilled concentrate for obvious reasons, but in either case, no, you can't "neutralize" the toxicity of catechol by throwing vinegar or bicarbonate on it. All that does is decrease alkalinity. If you spill liquids containing catechol, clean it up the way you would clean other messes, and with extra water rinsing. As an aside, catechol is not quite the same as pyrogallol as far as toxicity goes, but it still needs to be treated with respect. Working solutions are quite dilute, and there is no need to wear a hazmat suit when developing film with Pyrocat.

A few extra precautions should be taken if you are mixing from scratch using solid catechol. Powders can create dust, and catechol has a high vapour pressure.

[RodinalDuchamp]

Spilled working solution is far less dangerous than spilled concentrate for obvious reasons, but in either case, no, you can't "neutralize" the toxicity of catechol by throwing vinegar or bicarbonate on it. All that does is decrease alkalinity. If you spill liquids containing catechol, clean it up the way you would clean other messes, and with extra water rinsing. As an aside, catechol is not quite the same as pyrogallol as far as toxicity goes, but it still needs to be treated with respect. Working solutions are quite dilute, and there is no need to wear a hazmat suit when developing film with Pyrocat.

A few extra precautions should be taken if you are mixing from scratch using solid catechol. Powders can create dust, and catechol has a high vapour pressure.

Thank you. I thought just simply wiping up the solution seemed not enough for something which is apparently quite dangerous. I steam clean the floor afterwards always anyway just an extra precaution though I'm not sure the heat would destroy the chemistry but it would at least in my mind help break it loose from the surface better than just a paper towel.

I use one of those steam sharks with reusable pads, then wash the pad separetly before using it again in another area.

http://www.girlsjustwanttogogreen.com/product-reviews/shark-s3601-professional-steam-mop-review (http://www.girlsjustwanttogogreen.com/product-reviews/shark-s3601-professional-steam-mop-review)

[Jim C.]

Thank you. I thought just simply wiping up the solution seemed not enough for something which is apparently quite dangerous. I steam clean the floor afterwards always anyway just an extra precaution though I'm not sure the heat would destroy the chemistry but it would at least in my mind help break it loose from the surface better than just a paper towel.

I use one of those steam sharks with reusable pads, then wash the pad separetly before using it again in another area.


Would that be a good idea ?
In my mind the steam is carrying the catchechol as a vapor, not to mention some chemicals do
not react well to heat.

I had found a MSDS that did contain neutralizing instructions but for the life of me I can't find it again.

[Michael R]

Thank you. I thought just simply wiping up the solution seemed not enough for something which is apparently quite dangerous. I steam clean the floor afterwards always anyway just an extra precaution though I'm not sure the heat would destroy the chemistry but it would at least in my mind help break it loose from the surface better than just a paper towel.

I use one of those steam sharks with reusable pads, then wash the pad separetly before using it again in another area.

http://www.girlsjustwanttogogreen.com/product-reviews/shark-s3601-professional-steam-mop-review (http://www.girlsjustwanttogogreen.com/product-reviews/shark-s3601-professional-steam-mop-review)

I think you're overdoing it. Clean it well with soap and plenty of water. Nothing more fancy is required. You can steam clean afterward if that's how you normally clean the floor, but it isn't necessary.

Seems like you're thinking about catechol as some sort of virus or bacterium which can be "inactivated" and rendered harmless. Doesn't work that way. Catechol can no doubt be reacted with other compounds in some sort of specific process to convert the catechol into something else, which might be a non-toxic reaction product. But this is beyond the home worker, and way beyond what is necessary. Just clean it up.

[Jim Noel]

Isn't Pyrocat, pyrocatechol ?
You can always look up the MSDS using pyrocatechol or if the container has a CAS number use that to get a MSDS
or more info on accidental spill procedures.

Found this -

http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/docs/81-123/pdfs/0109.pdf

No, Pyrocat is pyrocatechin, no pyrocatechol. Two entirely different compounds.

[Michael R]

Jim,

Catechol, pyrocatechol and pyrocatechin are all the same compound (catechol), which is 1,2-dihydroxybenzene. It has many other names, of course, depending on convention (Kodak still calls it 1,2-benzenediol).

[Liquid Artist]

I always wear rubber gloves when dealing with chemistry, but that is about the biggest precaution that I take.

I am more worried about fixer. I have left some developer (although not pyro) in a tinfoil dish, and fixer in another tinfoil dish for a few days. The developers dish didn't show any obvious reaction, however the fixer ate a hole right the tinfoil.

[Doremus Scudder]

I've been following this thread with interest hoping that one of the recognized chemists who participate here would chime in. I'm not one, but I remember reading somewhere (I think in a thread on disposal of photochemicals) that both pyrogallol and pyrocat... oxidized very quickly in working solutions and that after oxidation they were significantly less toxic. Can anyone out there confirm or deny this?

Best,

Doremus

[RodinalDuchamp]

I've been following this thread with interest hoping that one of the recognized chemists who participate here would chime in. I'm not one, but I remember reading somewhere (I think in a thread on disposal of photochemicals) that both pyrogallol and pyrocat... oxidized very quickly in working solutions and that after oxidation they were significantly less toxic. Can anyone out there confirm or deny this?

Best,

Doremus

Doremus, This is akin to what I mentioned earlier though you put it much more elegantly. In my apprenticeship I was taught to take specific precautions against placing solution A into solution B because they would rapidly degrade. So I use 2 seperate syringes for each solution.

[Michael R]

You're referring to oxidation of the developing agents. This is a complex process and can follow various paths to different end points depending on pH, other compounds present and time. A variety of oxidation products are created, some of which may or may not be less toxic.

Clean the spill with soap and plenty of water and that's all there is to it.

[originalphoto]

I always wear rubber gloves when dealing with chemistry, but that is about the biggest precaution that I take.

I am more worried about fixer. I have left some developer (although not pyro) in a tinfoil dish, and fixer in another tinfoil dish for a few days. The developers dish didn't show any obvious reaction, however the fixer ate a hole right the tinfoil.

Activity of a compound to metal tin is diff from how it is toxic to human being.