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ryanmills
26-Oct-2015, 10:03
Anyone who shoots near water have any thoughts on wood vs metal cameras? I shoot a lot in and near water. Most of its not salt water but it happens. I have a metal sinar that holds up pretty well. few cheap screws I noticed have started to show some rust. I'm moving up to to 8x10 and while I have my eye on a Master View mainly because of its speed of use (or maybe a toyo 810m) and it seems it would hold up better in travel. I'm starting to wonder if a deardorff might be a better choice. Or does it really even matter?

Drew Wiley
26-Oct-2015, 12:27
I'm into it all nearly every summer weekend, salty beach fog, rain, often splashy beach conditions, freshwater lagoons. Makes no difference. I shoot wooden folders as well as metal Sinar monorails, sometimes medium format too. All the fittings whether camera or tripod should be nonferrous. I don't know why anyone would want a Dorff when there are so many more modern options out there. But that's starting a food fight. I'd rather have titanium or stainless hardware than brass, which is suscepetible to salt air and needs constant attention, just like on a boat. The Sinar main rails are steel; but they're so well plated
they've never tarnished. My Ries tripods have bronze and stainless hardware, and even my carbon fiber tripods contain nothing capable of rust. I simply hose off the tripods at the end of each day. The cameras get wiped down with a microfiber cloth, slightly dampened if necessary. Lenses are a different subject, but we should all know about those by now.

ryanmills
26-Oct-2015, 13:26
I'm into it all nearly every summer weekend, salty beach fog, rain, often splashy beach conditions, freshwater lagoons. Makes no difference. I shoot wooden folders as well as metal Sinar monorails, sometimes medium format too. All the fittings whether camera or tripod should be nonferrous. I don't know why anyone would want a Dorff when there are so many more modern options out there. But that's starting a food fight. I'd rather have titanium or stainless hardware than brass, which is suscepetible to salt air and needs constant attention, just like on a boat. The Sinar main rails are steel; but they're so well plated
they've never tarnished. My Ries tripods have bronze and stainless hardware, and even my carbon fiber tripods contain nothing capable of rust. I simply hose off the tripods at the end of each day. The cameras get wiped down with a microfiber cloth, slightly dampened if necessary. Lenses are a different subject, but we should all know about those by now.

Thanks, I really need a folding camera. I travel with a rail camera right now and its not work the extra drama. I really would prefer a KMV but finding one thats not priced silly has been a challenge lately. I never seem to have the money when a decent one pops up. The deardorff is really a last resort but wondered if wood mattered. Sounds like it really does not. Thanks for the insight!

jp
26-Oct-2015, 14:52
I use 4x5 gear near the ocean quite a bit. I live in a fog bank most of the summer which is hard on most steel and leather (gets moldy).

At the beach, tripod choice is the biggest thing for me. I really like Tiltalls for 4x5 and smaller but mine got sand up the legs and corrosion and that did it in. I have a Ries tripod now which handles the salt and grit much better.

If you have a few little pieces of hardware getting rusty it's probably dissimilar metals mixing with the salt air to accelerate the corrosion. Clean it up and wax it to prevent recurrence.

Drew Wiley
26-Oct-2015, 15:59
Storage is a problem on the coast. You want your gear either on shelves with good air circulation, or stored in a tight container with active dessicant, some of which are very bad for leather if in DIRECT contact with it; so such products must be correctly used. And yes, mold does love not only leather but leatherette too. Gear that get used routinely is less a problem, cause it gets aired out anyway. But anything that actually gets damp is dried out immediately, at the end of the same day. Around here everything rusts just from the climate. And various alloys start squabbling with one another in the presence of salt in a manner they wouldn't inland. No big deal if you understand this. But with wooden cameras per se, I'd be a bit concerned about any cheapo ones. Humidity changes = warpage, lack of consistent film plane, loosening joints, etc. The better brands understood how to properly cure, join, and finish wood for long-term reliability. But just because a camera looks pretty on a fireplace mantle doesn't mean it's equally functional. There have even been a few expensive ones that made me
suspect of their durability. In wooden folders I work with an Ebony 4x5 and Phillips 8x10, and they've been reliable year-in, year-out, all kinds of weather. My
only complaint with the Ebony is that their fresnel/GG sandwich easily fogs up; but I instantly replaced it with a Satin Snow GG, since I hate fresnels in general.

jp
26-Oct-2015, 16:36
Storage is a problem on the coast. You want your gear either on shelves with good air circulation, or stored in a tight container with active dessicant, some of which are very bad for leather if in DIRECT contact with it; so such products must be correctly used. And yes, mold does love not only leather but leatherette too. Gear that get used routinely is less a problem, cause it gets aired out anyway.

Yep. While my house varies in high humidity and salt air such that bathroom doors won't shut, I do keep the garage sealed tight and dehumidified.
What's good for the old car is good for camera gear, negative and print storage, etc.. I electronically monitor and get an email if humidity or temperature become a problem.
If I were five miles inland, none of this would be a concern.

Kirk Gittings
26-Oct-2015, 18:57
interesting question that I have not had to face living in the high desert.

Peter De Smidt
26-Oct-2015, 19:09
How about a Walker Titan?

Tin Can
26-Oct-2015, 19:20
Black Rock Desert (http://www.blm.gov/nv/st/en/fo/wfo/blm_programs/planning/Black_Rock_Desert-High_Rock_Canyon_Emigrant_Trails_National_Conservation_Area/black_rock_desert-high.html)can't be good for any camera for very long.

Alkaline sand storms. (http://www.sci.sdsu.edu/salton/ShrinkingSeaNToxicDust.html)

aka Burning Man. My lungs took several months to clear. The fresh Honda Civic never did.

Liquid Artist
26-Oct-2015, 20:22
I don't think it really matters what you use.
If you don't wipe the camera down with a clean damp cloth your going to have issues in the future.
If you do your camera may last your lifetime.
But then again you know what they say " there's no guarantee except death and taxes"

Doremus Scudder
27-Oct-2015, 02:50
Wood or metal, the most important thing is to keep the camera and lenses protected as much as possible from salt spray and moisture when setting up and using the camera and then to clean everything after exposure.

On nice days there's often a stiff offshore wind blowing a lot of salt spray with it (check your sunglasses after a while and you'll see). On some days, there's no wind and no problems, on others, there's so much moisture being blown in that I won't even set up. And, when you're working close to the breakers, there's a lot of salt water in the air and the occasional "sneaker wave" that'll drench you and your camera (hence my oversized Gore-Tex dark cloth...)

I keep my dark cloth draped over the camera as much as I can unless conditions are superb. I also mount a skylight or UV filter while focusing, etc. Just common sense.
After a day's shooting, sit down with your gear and clean it all up, even if it's been a "nice" day: slightly damp cloth for the bellows and camera body, cotton swabs for the nooks and crannies, microfiber cloth for lenses and filters and so forth. Every now and then I'll treat bellows with a high-quality shoe polish or boot black and use a little tung oil on the wood finish. Brass tends to get pitted and corroded, so keep it clean. That said, I have a Wista DX with fairly corroded brass work that's still going strong, just doesn't look so great. One of these days I'll remove it all and re-lacquer it all, but probably not for a few years.

Doremus

tonyowen
27-Oct-2015, 04:06
141470

I live almost on the beach with the Irish Sea sometime coming onto my property.
The attached image shows the results of last night's 8m tide and the unexpected strong east wind.
Living and working near to a sea or ocean that has a high salt content is murderous to anything that can corrode.
I once erroneously purchased some brass plated screws instead of solid brass screws. These brass plated screws lasted less than a week
before being totally consumed by the salt laden atmosphere.
The only materials that seem to survive are protected-and-treated wood, stainless steel, brass, and plastics.
As mentioned by others, lenses are quickly coated with salt, especially when wind driven.
Also, ignoring the inherent risk of being drenched by waves or spray, there is the fact that wind-driven salt will enter the slightest gap so even careful wiping of lenses will not necessarily remove all of the salt from between parts that move into or across each other.

regards
Tony

ryanmills
28-Oct-2015, 12:38
Thanks everyone, tripod wise I have carbon gitzo systematic that's quite nice. Sand build up is annoying but its easy enough to disassemble and clean. Nothing like a shower with your gitzo to bring you closer. The goretec on the dark cloth is genius, i have had to work in rain quite a bit with a 4x5 never thought to coat it. Will be doing that now. I do wipe and clean everything after a shoot. Just the nature of my work it's either sand or water getting things dirty. I think for now I will stick to the KVM and metal. Might have to swap some parts for stainless, i get lucky having a decent machinist locally. Hopefully nothing is too crazy on the camera.

Liquid Artist
29-Oct-2015, 01:42
Nothing beats a layer of Turtle Wax (or just about any other high performance) car wax for protecting a metal camera.