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View Full Version : Looking for someone who makes Busch Pressman boards



dimento
21-Oct-2015, 04:24
Found a guy maybe 8 years ago who made Busch Pressman boards at a reasonable price but various house moves, computer meltdowns etc mean I no longer have his details or even name
if anyone can point me towards someone who can make the boards that would be much appreciated.

Before anyone tells me how easy they are to make, I have zero metal work skills.

Thanks

D

Jim Noel
21-Oct-2015, 09:30
How about your woodworking skills. They can be made from firewall plywood available at model stores.

Jim C.
21-Oct-2015, 09:44
How about your woodworking skills. They can be made from firewall plywood available at model stores.

Maybe it could be wood, Busch Pressman boards have a tang inside that a thumb screw engages to hold it in.
Very unlike most lens board designs.

Old-N-Feeble
21-Oct-2015, 09:48
D... I posted in your WTB thread.

dimento
21-Oct-2015, 09:56
Maybe it could be wood, Busch Pressman boards have a tang inside that a thumb screw engages to hold it in.
Very unlike most lens board designs.

thanks for the suggestion guys, but I have no such skills, nor do I have the time or inclination to learn, looking for a ready-made solution, thanks, D

leighmarrin
21-Oct-2015, 12:22
There is currently a 4x5 Busch used lensboard with a 34.5mm hole on US eBay, from seller "mplspeddler".

dimento
22-Oct-2015, 01:14
There is currently a 4x5 Busch used lensboard with a 34.5mm hole on US eBay, from seller "mplspeddler".

thanks so much for the heads up, none earlier yesterday, now 2-3.... cheers, D

dimento
23-Oct-2015, 08:40
Trawling through the archives I came across the name Gary Deal, in Kansas, who used to make Busch lensboards, does anyone know him or have contact details, thanks in advance, Damian

leighmarrin
24-Oct-2015, 20:28
Midwest Photo Exchange lists Busch lens boards for about $40. http://mpex.com/busch-0-4x5-lens-board.html I don't know about Gary Deal..

dimento
25-Oct-2015, 00:51
Midwest Photo Exchange lists Busch lens boards for about $40. http://mpex.com/busch-0-4x5-lens-board.html I don't know about Gary Deal..
Thanks , I knew about MPEX, but at $45 for shipping it makes it very expensive. I'm talking to a member here who may be shipping one to me which would lower the cost. I did find a guy a guy who used to sell them but he was looking for $60 for one. It would be cheaper to get a few hours of metal work tuition. Cheers, D

Gary Deal
8-Apr-2016, 05:38
Trawling through the archives I came across the name Gary Deal, in Kansas, who used to make Busch lensboards, does anyone know him or have contact details, thanks in advance, Damian

That would be me. I've been out of this for a while, but I'm sticking my head back in it again...

I just sold what I think was the last of the Pressman boards I made. I originally kept relisting them on ebay until they stopped selling. Between then and now a few people have contacted me looking for them, and the remainder dwindled. I decided to sell my Pressman (with six boards), and figured I should sell the few blem boards that remained.

The first auction ended pretty quickly, and I sold the rest to the same buyer - five total. This made me wonder if I should see about making another batch, and I found my name mentioned here (look! I'm framous!).

Anyway, since I've sold the Pressman, I don't have anything to test-fit any new boards with. I still had an original board here, and now I'm wondering if I inadvertently sent it with the camera. But, if I think there's enough of a demand I'd consider doing what's necessary to get it done - it's not really that difficult.

On the other hand, if someone has the skills (my method included having the parts cut, milling a slot in the back, using some special alloy rod to weld the tab into the slot with a simple propane torch, then putting in the appropriate holes, just simple factory-style work), I could explain my method in detail. Or I could just write it up and put it here, if anyone would prefer that.

-Gary

Jac@stafford.net
8-Apr-2016, 06:42
That would be good, Gary. If necessary, I can provide the dimensions.
.

Rael
8-Apr-2016, 13:55
Wow, I can't believe on the day I'm actually looking for one of these, I find this thread. I'd be interested in buying some too if you get back in the biz.

Jac@stafford.net
8-Apr-2016, 14:23
The Busch D lens board is complex but it can be simplified. That's a separate post. Ask.

The outside vertical and horizontal dimensions are each 76mm (~3"). There is a rebate inside of the board of 63mm (2.5"). Finally, and most irritating is an expression from the inside of the board to accommodate the screw which secures it: 2mm by 19mm (3/4") located on top of the center of the rebate.

Of course you can see there is a build short-cut to make it yourself.

When the weather clears I can post photos. Yeah, no room in the house for light right now in our weather of MinneSnowta.
.

Gary Deal
9-Apr-2016, 03:25
That would be good, Gary. If necessary, I can provide the dimensions.
.

Thanks, three inches square, I don't recall the corner radius, the height and width of the tabs, or the exact location of the tab hole.

What I made was a flat board with the rear tab welded in and the little hole drilled in the tab. The original Busch boards were two attached pieces (still not sure if they were riveted or what) - the flat front and flat back section that fit into the throat of the camera, that had the retaining tab bent at ninety degrees and the hole drilled in it. I'd been using a plain flat style for years with no apparent problems, and had seen several original boards with their tabs broken off - so there may be a flaw in that aspect of the design.

The very first ones I made were when I had no power tools at all, just ingenuity and dedication. And no internet.

The only complaint I ever got was when someone drilled the tab hole out, too large. I swapped out the board at no charge, and just swapped a new tab into the damaged one.

I had the boards and tabs cut by Frigo Design (frigodesign.com). At the time, it cost $118.00 for a set of one hundred, delivered. I was considering a rerun a few years ago and I checked on the price and it was lower than the original, so there must have been a setup fee in there somewhere.

If they still have my file, I'd ok it's use by anyone, but I just sent them an original board to measure.

The material should be .062 inch thick aluminum. Frigo should have plenty. The tabs should be .030" - .035" bigger than the originals are tall, for reasons that will become clear.

Once the boards and tabs were in hand, I milled a groove in the proper position on the back of the board that was slightly wider than .062, and slightly longer than the tab - for a comfortable fit and room for the attaching material - to a depth of .030" - .035". Basically, halfway through the board.

If you don't have the right tool, this can be difficult (I have a pantomill). One of my former employers, Precise Panel Engraving in Garden Grove CA, would probably do a batch of 100 inexpensively, it's an easy job.

You'll need some aluminum "brazing" rod. I think it was called "Alumilite" when I got it, but that's also the name of a casting resin. The stuff will melt in the heat of a cheap propane torch, and when it's molten it will actually dissolve the aluminum it's in contact with. The bond effectively makes the two pieces into a single piece. You have to work quickly, because it will dissolve it's way through the board and leave unsightly (and harder) spots on the front. You have to scratch with it a little to get through the oxide that immediately forms on aluminum, but it becomes obvious when you try it.

Prepare by hammering the end of the rod pretty flat, then cleaning off any debris/contamination. Two inches or so is a good working length of flatness.

This part involves things being very hot! Make sure you have pliers and stuff, and a welding glove can be handy. **Remember to not touch things that are really hot**

Holding each tab in the torch flame, start rubbing the flattened rod against a long edge. Once it starts to melt, draw a bead along the edge of the tab, then set it aside to cool. Rounds of twenty worked well for me. This is a "Tip", it took me a while to figure it out.

Once you have enough prepped tabs, set up your board fixture. The board needs to be held horizontal, firmly, with as little heatsinking as possible. I used a small machine vise, clamped to a machine table, with only about 1/4" of the board clamped in the vise.

This is the part where you have to be quick:
Heating the area under the slot with the torch, start rubbing the flattened rod in the slot. Once it starts to melt, make sure there's a bead from one end to the other. Then, insert the prepared tab, bead side down, and move it back and forth a little to make sure the metal has melted - the molten stuff should overflow the slot just a little. Once that's attained, remove the heat immediately. Let it cool a little (the tab should be rigid by now) and remove it from the vise when you're ready. I put them on the steel tablesaw table and they cooled off pretty quickly.

Once you've made the first one, stop. Shut everything off. Let the board cool to room temperature. It's time for the required destructive testing:

Secure the board in a large stable bench vise. Securely attach a large pair of vise grips to the tab. Do whatever it takes to separate the two areas of the board.

The joint should be stronger than the metal of the board/tab. If the joint separated, practice some and do it again. If the metal tore but the joint remained intact, proceed.

It should be obvious that this could be done without the slot, but it provides locating that would otherwise have to be fixtured, as well as three surfaces that are joined instead of one.

Then fixture up and drill the tab hole, and test fit to a Pressman. Keep in mind that the hole should be centered slightly closer to the board than on-center with the retaining pin. The retaining pin is tapered so that it exerts pressure against the back of the hole, thoroughly locking the board in place.

Sanding the back and painting it flat black isn't a bad idea. The rod material is not compatible with an anodizing bath, so that's out, and when I've started with black anodized aluminum the black dye didn't hold up. I've never tried alodine, but I've also never had any black paint flake off, so it's up to you and YMMV.

I bored all my holes with the pantomill, so you're kind of on your own there. Remember to clamp things securely, wear/supply proper safety equipment, and observe all proper safety procedures. There should be no blood nor blisters.

That should pretty much cover it for the at least reasonably ingenious.

I sold them for fifteen dollars plus two fifty for shipping, or three for forty-five with free shipping. Yes, I could have gotten more, but I wanted to move them out, not hold out for as much as I could possibly get. These days I'd probably want about eighteen plus a couple bucks for shipping, unless the cost for blanks has gone up substantially. Over the years I've seen them on ebay for twenty or more.

My current photo-related project: Something modular for superwide 4x5 than doesn't cost $600+ and is as adaptable as possible. I'll try to post about it soon, I may need input or to just show off.

Gary Deal
9-Apr-2016, 03:30
The Busch D lens board is complex but it can be simplified. That's a separate post. Ask.

The outside vertical and horizontal dimensions are each 76mm (~3"). There is a rebate inside of the board of 63mm (2.5"). Finally, and most irritating is an expression from the inside of the board to accommodate the screw which secures it: 2mm by 19mm (3/4") located on top of the center of the rebate.

Of course you can see there is a build short-cut to make it yourself.

When the weather clears I can post photos. Yeah, no room in the house for light right now in our weather of MinneSnowta.
.

I'd be interested in seeing your take on them, i think that the more ways there are to do something, the better for all of us.

I find those stamped Graphic boards daunting, but I never had one I needed boards for.

It's getting spring-ish here now, we've had some upper 70's couples with low 20's, and I have to mow this weekend. You'll melt out eventually.

Jim Jones
9-Apr-2016, 07:26
I've made a functional substitute for the stamped Graphic boards by first trimming a metal plate to fit inside of a Graphic board. It is firmly clamped against a somewhat larger sheet of 1/16" aluminum and the aluminum bit by bit folded over the metal plate. The lens board can be trimmed down to the proper depth on a router table or table saw with a fence.

wombat2go
9-Apr-2016, 07:41
Here is my latest method of replicating the Graflex boards, out of solid 6061 Al.
(In this case a 2x3 and next time I will do the 4x5 board the same way)
https://app.box.com/s/0fepogc4gk8g4b3ol0g5osi0ardb733g
https://app.box.com/s/bautjx2ahquy66xff7sdkgx8dq2t12z6
https://app.box.com/s/ace5ftgq6qiddwlo1bayn5f2wnfx51v7
https://app.box.com/s/wrug4wlyfcbhqk9mou5niegenyrw7v3s
https://app.box.com/s/spfmw9nje7r64m5bgfi5ej23matz7gqe

Rael
9-Apr-2016, 08:10
I think this was posted elsewhere too, but there's a guy on etsy (https://www.etsy.com/listing/235160628/speed-crown-graphic-4x5-camera-lens?ref=shop_home_listings) who has the crown graphic boards made and sells them for 17 bucks.

Rael
9-Apr-2016, 08:20
I wonder if you could find some sort of epoxy or use a rivet instead of the brazing? Then it would be a no brainer -- just buy the parts from the supplier and sell them in pairs.

Chauncey Walden
9-Apr-2016, 15:17
I used epoxy to glue the inner board (with the tongue folded over 90 degrees) to the outer board. All made from hobby shop aluminum (.016 IIRC). Made many boards this way and used them for many years with no problems. You put the board in the camera and use the holding screw to mark the tongue for the correct spot for the small hole. Somewhere on this site are probably still the complete instructions I have posted in the past.

Rael
13-Apr-2016, 17:25
That would be me. I've been out of this for a while, but I'm sticking my head back in it again...

I just sold what I think was the last of the Pressman boards I made. I originally kept relisting them on ebay until they stopped selling. Between then and now a few people have contacted me looking for them, and the remainder dwindled. I decided to sell my Pressman (with six boards), and figured I should sell the few blem boards that remained.

The first auction ended pretty quickly, and I sold the rest to the same buyer - five total. This made me wonder if I should see about making another batch, and I found my name mentioned here (look! I'm framous!).

Anyway, since I've sold the Pressman, I don't have anything to test-fit any new boards with. I still had an original board here, and now I'm wondering if I inadvertently sent it with the camera. But, if I think there's enough of a demand I'd consider doing what's necessary to get it done - it's not really that difficult.

-Gary

So is this a dead project? :) If you still have the file (or if they do) I'd love to call them and see what the current price is for them to fabricate these things.

Gary Deal
19-Apr-2016, 03:35
Well, I suppose the question is whether I should make another round. I put nearly a hundred out into the mix, are there none showing up on ebay for twenty bucks or so?

Frigo design would only cut the parts, they'd still need to be assembled - I still have all the necessary stuff.

Rael
20-Apr-2016, 06:02
Not that I've seen... And I've been checking for a while. When I bought the camera without the lensboard I didn't realize they'd be so hard to find. Even if you didn't want to do the brazing and drilling I'd still buy a couple if they had the milling for the right angle piece. I can't do that part.

mackinaw
20-Apr-2016, 09:01
Here’s what I did. I had a piece of clear acrylic left over from another project (about 2.4mm thick) that I cut up to fit my old Busch Pressman. I used a fine-toothed saw to cut out the basic shape, then took a 1” drill bit to make the lens opening. I then took a circular file to enlarge the hole so as to fit a Copal #1 shutter. Since the acrylic was clear, I covered the backside with black tape. To attach the lens plate to the camera, I took out one of the two screws that helps hold the bottom of a Busch lens plate to the camera. I put that screw kitty-corner to the other, so to securely hold the lens plate to the camera. It took me less than an hour to make and works fine in the field (no light leaks). My 210mm Schneider isn’t rangefinder coupled, but I use the ground glass for focusing. Not the most elegant solution, but it’s cheap and it works.
149808149809149810

Gary Deal
20-Apr-2016, 14:45
Ouch, I looked on ebay and found one (original) board - $59.00. Obviously I haven't been looking for very long, but that seems high to me. Back when I was selling those continuously my price seemed to lower the commodity price for those.

I've been in contact with the vendor and they don't do .062" any more, only .050". Twelve thousandths is enough to deal with, whether with some extra flat black paint or at worst piece of tape - the way the retaining hole & pin work pulls the board flat against the standard anyway.

My only problem moving forward - and I'm thinking that I'll go ahead with it - is if there's a market for at least half of the batch. I've seen that the cameras are still changing hands, so there's probably at least close to that.

If someone else is going to do this for sales, whether based on my outline or not, please let me know, I'll step back and let you go ahead.

Gary Deal
23-Apr-2016, 18:25
Ok, I've made the arrangements and the original, original Busch board (that came with my camera, with the tab broken off) is packed up and ready to go to the vendor for them to check and make sure they get it right. I should have parts in a week or two. Once I have them I'll set up the machine and cut the slots, then welding in the tabs and drilling the holes in them might be able to proceed in a more leisurely manner - *might*, or I may decide to just run the whole batch at once, so it's done.

Rael
27-Apr-2016, 16:41
Thanks a lot for going through the trouble.

Fr. Mark
27-Apr-2016, 19:05
Please send me a PM when you get some done. I might use my Buschpressman D more if I could put a different lens and shutter on it.

Gary Deal
12-May-2016, 02:35
I've received the parts. Barring some other catastrophe, I'll be working on them this weekend in with everything else.

It'll be good to do something that doesn't involve a computer screen, I've been pushing vectors, coding, and photographing tiny parts for almost a year solid.

Jim C.
12-May-2016, 08:26
Hi Gary, would you sell the Pressman boards as unassembled ?

Jac@stafford.net
12-May-2016, 16:24
I have some photos and the dimensions for the inside of the Busch D press camera lens board if anyone is interested.
.

Fr. Mark
12-May-2016, 18:52
Please post the pics and dimensions. That's valuable information!

Gary Deal
13-May-2016, 02:04
Unassembled? Do you mean the raw parts, no milled slot or hole? Sure, why not. Going to PM to keep actual sales out of the discussion.

I should do the same regarding the dimensions, for comparative purposes:


Front section of board:
- Nominally 3 inches square with radiused corners and 0.060 inches thick, my two original boards are 2.990 - 2.995 inches square. After all these years I still don't have a radius guage, but they look the same as those on the rear section, about 0.160 - 0.0175 inches


Rear section of board:
- Appears to be 0.080 inches thick
- Is 2.44 inches square, with radiused corners, square section is centered to the front section.. Corners appear to have a radius of about 0.160 - 0.175 inches.
- Retaining tab is bent so that it's lower side is in line with the top of the square section.
- Retaining tab top is 0.215 inches from top of board, is 0.750 inches wide, and extends 0.315 inches from the rear side of the board.
- Hole in tab is about 0.075 inches in diameter, and is centered about 0.150 inches from the rear side of the board.

I've always just gone with a plain flat board and I've never heard of any problems, but if you're concerned with potential light leakage I'd suggest adhesive-backed black "foamies". It's a dense closed cell neoprene-looking stuff, generally available in craft stores/sections in a variety of thicknesses. The adhesive backed stuff might be a little harder to find, but, um, double-stick tape, like "carpet tape". Cheap, easy to cut, very non-reflective if you get the stuff without sparklies, should make a great light trap.

Geez, I've got to get some sleep in here somewhere ... and not wake myself up because I'm doing work in my sleep!

Jac@stafford.net
13-May-2016, 06:46
Busch Pressman D

Thank you to Gary Deal for the dimensions.
I had already done some measurements; if mine are different, use those that Gary gave.

Picture of the back. (http://www.digoliardi.net/busch-d/busch-board-back-1.jpg)
Dimensions in metric. (http://www.digoliardi.net/busch-d/busch-board-dim.txt)

What might be helpful is a better picture of the retaining tab, and I will try to add that later.

Jim C.
14-May-2016, 15:05
Jac, what part of the lens board is the "inside block" you mention in your measurements ?

This drawing is off my OEM Pressman model D lens board, the measurements in the drawing are as I took them with my calipers
and seem pretty close to Jac's measurements.
An interesting note is that the board I have has a ever so slight top and bottom bevel, more so on the bottom the sides seem square,
possibly as a relief for the lens board to tilt out.

150889

Jac@stafford.net
14-May-2016, 15:24
Jac, what part of the lens board is the "inside block" you mention in your measurements ?

Jim, the "inside block" is the expressed (raised) part of the inside of the front board. I am neither an engineer nor draftsman, so forgive my crude description, please.

One nuisance for an amateur like me is the placement of the hole for the lensboard lock hole. It happens to be exactly at the intersection line of the inside (second layer of the) board and the tab. I would make a tab, screw down the lock, mark the position and drill.

Illustrations such as yours make it all more clear.

Thanks for being there with good info.
--
Jac Stafford

Jim C.
14-May-2016, 19:34
No worries, naming unnamed parts on old cameras can be daunting, you say tomato I say tamata as the old song goes.

I had made some boards when I first got a Pressman D, same as the OEM one, how I wished I had a spot welder to fasten the inner
board rebate that has the tab back then. I screwed them together.

I used the lensboard lock screw to mark the hole on the tab, inked in the tab with a black Sharpie, installed the board and spun the lock screw
against the tab and that left a clean mark for me to center punch and drill. If I recall correctly I started the hole small and upped the sizes
till I had a good engagement. They were all wire gauge size drills.

Edited my previous post, I noticed I had a duplicate attachment, I deleted the duplicate attachment that was the same as the inline picture,
the inline picture is clearer in terms of which way the side view drawing of the board is oriented.

Rael
4-Jun-2016, 19:24
I've received the parts. Barring some other catastrophe, I'll be working on them this weekend in with everything else.

It'll be good to do something that doesn't involve a computer screen, I've been pushing vectors, coding, and photographing tiny parts for almost a year solid.

So....just wondering how it's going? No pressure. :)

Gary Deal
10-Jun-2016, 01:59
Getting there, anyway. Too many other things taking up my time and brainpower, but I have some slots cut and a couple of tabs attached. See your inbox.

Gary Deal
4-Sep-2016, 00:26
With some cooler, drier air, I've finally been able to do the last setup (tab-hole drilling), so they're technically available. PM me for info, and yes, I know, further posting regarding sales should go in the correct area.

Gary Deal
4-Sep-2016, 18:15
The lack of the ability to do a final inspection by mounting the board in a camera is bugging me (I wasn’t planning on making any more boards and sold the camera).

Does anyone happen to have a Busch Pressman Model D front standard (with retaining pin) laying around that I could borrow for a while?

Fr. Mark
5-Sep-2016, 18:33
I'd be happy to test one and pay for it, but I'd rather not send you the camera...

Gary Deal
5-Sep-2016, 21:01
Fr. Mark, PM sent, check your inbox.

Rael
6-Sep-2016, 16:17
The two you sent me fit perfectly, for what that's worth.

Fr. Mark
10-Sep-2016, 08:52
Lens board received. Fit is snug but will be fine with lens installed. The original lens board has two layers of metal and the tab is bent from the second one. This increases stiffness and may improve the light trap but I'm not sure it is needed, I doubt that it will be an issue and it would make the lens boards harder to make. Now I need to find a better lens and shutter for my Pressman D! Am thinking a 150 in a modern Copal shutter. :-)154827154828