LF as a Spectator Sport

[Michael Graves]

It's leaf peeping season in Vermont, and naturally, I had to burn a couple of hundred dollars worth of 8x10 negative film. (Hope I can figure out where to get it processed!) So my wife and I headed out with the dog and the 2D. Darned dog wouldn't even carry my camera for me! Naturally, all of the really scenic roads in the state were packed with tourists and other jacka$$ types (like myself, for example) out staring at a natural phenomenon that occurs every year about this time. But we had fun anyway, and I got a few shots that I hope come out okay.

There was one place we stopped, next to one of my favorite trout streams, where there was a pullout. A hill rising up from the river was resplendent in fall color and the sky was showing one of its rare moments today where there was some blue peeking through the overcast. Two vans pulled up about the same time we did, and my wife and I watched a modern reincarnation of the Keystone Cops, as about thirty Japanese tourists piled out of those two vehicles. Or maybe it was just twenty...I didn't try to count them. They started snapping away with their digital cameras and paid no attention to me at first as I set the Eastman 2d up on a Berlebach tripod. When I went to move it onto the spot from which I wanted to shoot, I caught their attention. For the next fifteen minutes, we waited while each one in turn posed with my camera and had their picture taken. You'da thunk they'd want their picture taken with the lovely mountain in the background! Then when they were all done getting their pictures taken, they waited very politely and quietly and watched while I set up my image and took my photograph. When I was finished and put the dark slide back in place, they started clapping, like I'd just finished performing a string quartet all by myself. It was actually quite amusing, but I was afraid if I laughed, I would offend them, so I just shook their hands as they went by me, going back to their vans.

I hope they all got into the right vehicle.

[LabRat]

Could be worse, with a whole stadium of J-girls shrieking at you, and them lobbing their underwear at you...

Steve K

[Ken Lee]

As you probably know, they have a very long tradition of profound appreciation of nature and the seasons, of poets and painters - not to mention their love of photography equipment and of photography itself. That's why they traveled all the way to Vermont. They not only discovered a scene of great beauty, they found a kindred soul.

Therefore with regard to that crowd, consider yourself appreciated and admired many times over :)

[480sparky]

More than once I've had to stop being a photographer and start being a teacher. Once their curiosity has been addressed, I return to being a photographer.

But that's partly my fault because I chose a LF camera, at least in part, for it's looks rather than technical ability. If I can generate just one spark of interest in another person, my job will be done.

[Michael Graves]

Could be worse, with a whole stadium of J-girls shrieking at you, and them lobbing their underwear at you...

Steve K

That would be horrible!!!

[Fr. Mark]

When we (mostly) middle aged fellows hang out here all the time, I think we forget how unusual our choice of camera type is. I know I do. I took a Sinar P 5x7 and Sinar trunk fully loaded with gear and huge tripod to an outdoor art show to take pics of landscape plus painters or pottery (it holds still better...) or glass blowing etc. and lots of people stopped to look at the "ancient" camera (I do have a 100+ year old 1/2 plate camera, but the Sinar is 1970's, I think). I make a point of letting them look at the ground glass etc. A fellow with a modern digi-cam did say, "Wow, a Sinar, when I was younger I really wanted one of those!" But lots of people stopped to look and asked questions. I was not prepared for the attention I was getting with my new to me toy.

I agree with Ken above, Japanese culture prizes artists and craftspeople: a cultured person was supposed to write well (handwriting AND poetry like haiku), be elegant with his sword (particularly samurai), arrange flowers well (ikebana), have some facility with drawing, play go passably well, etc. Many of these arts are somewhat extemporaneous/involve movement or an attempt to capture what is fleeting about beauty. LF, esp. with 8x10, must be well considered, carefully executed, a near ballet-like performance in some ways. I'm not surprised, really, by their reaction.

Did you shoot transparency or negative film for the pics of the VT leaves (or both?)? It is very beautiful there based on my limited experience with the area.

I need to get some B/W film developed and put some color neg film in the 4x5 holders and put it in my car so I'd have even a chance of capturing the fall color here which is getting close to peak (S. Central PA)

[LabRat]

But seriously, consider it a good thing... We ALL have too many stories of the time it all started when someone yelled "HEY"!!!!

BTW, there are too many people out there that get suspicious when the camera rig comes out... Enjoy the good times!!!

I think of being out shooting somewhere as being under the sea... You are in an environment that is out of your normal element and only visiting... The inhabitants may be going along with their own way, or may be curious and might approach, and there are rouge or higher-in-the foodchain elements, too... But if you can bring good energy, and not be a threat, you can be accepted into that environment, and get good shots, too... Be part of it all!!!

Sounds like a good day!?!!!

Steve K

[Drew Wiley]

Hundreds of dollars worth of 8x10 film: isn't that about two sheets at today's prices? Since that happens to be the situation (almost), I decided to take a walk with
medium format (P67) instead, and save up my 8x10 film for next month, when the angle of lighting gets more moody and the air clearer after a few rains. But I still packed my big Ries tripod just for the sake of exercise. That combination forfeited the "nice camera" comments I'm accustomed to on the trail; but I still garnered a "nice tripod" comment from a German tourist. You can't win em all. The only real nuisance is when some young couple comes along and sees you with a serious camera of some type, so asks you to take their picture on their little cell phone, since you're obviously some kind of pro. I oblige, even though I can't even see what I'm looking at on those silly little arms-length screens without wearing glasses. In fact, I need to ask them what button or pad to push.
Why can't they just equip those darn things with dark cloths like other cameras?

[djdister]

It is interesting sometimes. They are interested if you have a 100 year old camera and lens because they are amazed the thing still works. But they are equally amazed (or more so) to see a "modern" (e.g. less than 20 year old) LF camera and lens. Got some equally open-mouthed stares at a Canham all-metal MQC or a Walker Titan SF with a modern lens and shutter because it "looks cool" and yet shoots big hunks of something called film...

[480sparky]

I've been asked what it uses for film, and I respond, "20-square-inch memory cards". :p

[Fr. Mark]

20 square inch memory cards! LOLROTF
thanks, that's great!

[djdister]

And next time if they're really curious, I'll offer to turn their $20 bill into a few sheets of film, right before their eyes...

[ImSoNegative]

I was going to do some LF photography in down town blue ridge Ga early this week, this town is a tourist hot spot in October, I had my C1 and I set it up, well here they come, most just looked and went on, a few walked by and said, wow that's a cool camera, then a couple came up that really engaged in some conversastion and the woman knew what she was talking about, she explained to her husband all about LF photography, she told me she had a speed graphic but she never really used it but she knew how to use it if she ever decided to, and she said she had heard of an 8x10 but never saw one, her husband thought it was cool and she asked if she could take a picture of her husband looking under the darkcloth like he was taking a picture, I said sure, so he looked and said "hey everything is upside down" before I could say anything she explained to him why everything was upside down, she then took a few snaps of the C1 said thank you and walked away

[Michael E]

I was taking a portrait of a classic railroad enthusiast at an event last weekend, when (among others) a woman asked about my camera. Turned out she used to be a photographer and had experience with view cameras, but had only worked with digital backs. She had never shot a sheet of film. Odd, I thought.

[Bill_1856]

Wonderful story -- I'm going to be smiling all day! Thank you.

[Bruce Watson]

When I went to move it onto the spot from which I wanted to shoot, I caught their attention. For the next fifteen minutes, we waited while each one in turn posed with my camera and had their picture taken. You'da thunk they'd want their picture taken with the lovely mountain in the background! Then when they were all done getting their pictures taken, they waited very politely and quietly and watched while I set up my image and took my photograph. When I was finished and put the dark slide back in place, they started clapping, like I'd just finished performing a string quartet all by myself. It was actually quite amusing...

You had a better crowd than I usually draw. My wife has made many pictures of people making pictures of me while I worked, but no one has ever made a "celeb" selfie with me and my camera, not even when we visited Japan! The thing I find really odd is that the onlookers don't ever seem to want to know what I'm making a photograph of, they are just about only interested in me and the camera.

On the rare occasion when someone asks, I always show them the groundglass so they can see the upside down and backwards image. Little kids are fascinated by it, adults seem more mystified.

But I've never had an ovation, either in the field on in a gallery. I bow to your superior skills Mr. Graves. ;)

[Michael Graves]

...but no one has ever made a "celeb" selfie with me and my camera...

Oh, they didn't include me...Just THEM and my camera.

[Michael Graves]

FR. Mark, I was shooting Ektar. Still looking for a place that still processes 8x10 C41. I may just buy a kit and process it in my Jobo.

[Drew Wiley]

C41 8x10 processing is routine here, though it's unfortunately clear across the country from you. I just wonder how much longer I'll be able to shoot 8x10 Ektar
since it has literally doubled in price in just a year. Or maybe that is just B&H's way of gouging when they temporarily have an exclusive. They've done that in the
past, like when 8x10 Tech Pan got scarce and they suddenly tripled the price. Still, better to have it available overpriced than not at all. But it sure tempts me to
shoot 4x5 more often.

[LabRat]

It is interesting sometimes. They are interested if you have a 100 year old camera and lens because they are amazed the thing still works. But they are equally amazed (or more so) to see a "modern" (e.g. less than 20 year old) LF camera and lens. Got some equally open-mouthed stares at a Canham all-metal MQC or a Walker Titan SF with a modern lens and shutter because it "looks cool" and yet shoots big hunks of something called film...

I find that if one uses some modern "high techie" looking LF camera, most people have a different response, as they probably assume that equals a $$$$$$$/commercial venture, where by using an "antique", someone is doing it for the joy of it...

I find the "antique" seems to "blend-in" better in public spaces...

Steve K

[djdister]

FR. Mark, I was shooting Ektar. Still looking for a place that still processes 8x10 C41. I may just buy a kit and process it in my Jobo.

The DC area has at least one lab that does up to 8x10 C-41 and E-6 -- DodgeChrome in Silver Springs, MD. You can do it all via mail too...

[Michael Graves]

C41 8x10 processing is routine here, though it's unfortunately clear across the country from you. I just wonder how much longer I'll be able to shoot 8x10 Ektar
since it has literally doubled in price in just a year. Or maybe that is just B&H's way of gouging when they temporarily have an exclusive. They've done that in the
past, like when 8x10 Tech Pan got scarce and they suddenly tripled the price. Still, better to have it available overpriced than not at all. But it sure tempts me to
shoot 4x5 more often.

I doubt if I'll shoot any more after this. I have one box of 400 left and after that, color is just too rich for my blood.

[Michael Graves]

The DC area has at least one lab that does up to 8x10 C-41 and E-6 -- DodgeChrome in Silver Springs, MD. You can do it all via mail too...

Thank you. I had not heard of that lab before. They must have popped up in the years since I moved away from Laurel.

[David Lobato]

This morning I had the Deardorff set up for a group shot at work. One of the guys looked under the dark cloth and remarked "It's in color!" Couldn't help but laugh, he's a good friend.

[rjphil]

Michael - Check with Edgar Praus in Rochester, NY - http://www.4photolab.com/pricing/. I have been using him since i shut down my wet lab. (You got a film dryer from me many years ago).

[Mike Lewis]

Thank you. I had not heard of that lab before. They must have popped up in the years since I moved away from Laurel.

Chrome was located in D.C. and Dodge Color used to be located in Bethesda, across the street from the Washington School of Photography (which I think has also relocated). They joined up as one company several years ago and moved to an office park in north Silver Spring. I used them when I still lived in Maryland. They do good work.

[Michael Graves]

Michael - Check with Edgar Praus in Rochester, NY - http://www.4photolab.com/pricing/. I have been using him since i shut down my wet lab. (You got a film dryer from me many years ago).

And indeed, I still have said film dryer. It is a wonderful piece from California Steel. Love it. I'm leaning toward getting a C41 kit just to say I did it myself. But having never developed color, I'm not sure just how complicated it will be. But I'm determined to try. But I'm starting with a couple of rolls of 120 before I drop 15-dollar sheets of film into the drink.

[480sparky]

C-41 isn't any more difficult than souping your first b&w roll. It's just a different temperature and the ingredients smell funny.

[Bruce Watson]

...having never developed color, I'm not sure just how complicated it will be. But I'm determined to try.

Thing is, it's not B&W. As long as you can resist that line of thinking, you should be OK. What I mean by that is that the parameters are not variables. They are fixed. Not negotiable. Use the correct temperature, use the exact times specified. You can't control C-41. Even a one stop push can be problematic.

This is antithetical to our normal B&W development ideas -- that we can have N-, N, and N+ development times, and can move highlight density around, etc. With C-41, you can't. And if you try, all hell breaks loose. I'm talking about color shifts (like variable color casts) that you can't easily, or at all, fix. Certainly not in a darkroom print. And almost certainly not in Photoshop.

So if you can just quit thinking, and follow the instructions to the letter, you'll be fine.


But I'm starting with a couple of rolls of 120 before I drop 15-dollar sheets of film into the drink.

Goes without saying.

The other thing is, read up on the process. There's lingering controversy over the kits. Some of them combine bleach and fix. There are religious fights over this. It would appear that a majority of opinion is that separate bleach and fix steps are better. But of course separate bleach and fix baths are hard to find in kits for home use because making a blix is easier (that is, cheaper) for Tetenal, Unicolor, etc. who are making the small kits.

There's a ton of information over on APUG. They've covered the C-41 ground quite thoroughly I think. For example:

http://www.apug.org/forums/forum40/55139-kodak-flexicolor-c-41-chemicals-2.html

Read particularly post #11. Poster "Photo Engineer" is a retired Kodak research chemist. He knows whereof he speaks, and he's still a very active poster on APUG.

I don't mean to make it sound harder than it is. Learning C-41 isn't any worse than learning how to use a view camera. You'll be fine.

[LabRat]

With C-41, it's not hard... You just have to "nail" the camera exposure (at the box speed), get temps exact (water bath everything and keep within a 10th of a degree), the times exact, follow the instructions exactly, and it comes out GREAT!!!!

If there is still a local minilab near you, they will sometimes sell you paper and chem at a great price...

Steve K

[Michael Graves]

With C-41, it's not hard... You just have to "nail" the camera exposure (at the box speed), get temps exact (water bath everything and keep within a 10th of a degree), the times exact, follow the instructions exactly, and it comes out GREAT!!!!

If there is still a local minilab near you, they will sometimes sell you paper and chem at a great price...

Steve K

I'ma gonna do it!!!. My local camera store (yes, we actually have TWO of them and one has a huge inventory of used and vintage film cameras) sold me a Rollei Digibase C-41 Mini Kit. It uses separate bleach and fix. So it must be one of the good ones. Now to destroy a couple of rolls of 120. Just how accurate is the temperature control on a Jobo CPA-2?