GAS BURST Agitation System DIY

[Tin Can]

I finally got it all in the box and running tests today. So far ten 10 minute cycles have run off my small air compressor. Air comp cycles on about every three 10 minute cycles, so air consumption is low.

The control unit is 1/2 done, as I am waiting on another timer, these are selling like crazy. System uses 8 watts for 1 second when solenoid is energized, timer wattage is so low I cannot measure it with a watt meter. Runs on 12 volt 1.5 amp wall wart. Overkill.

All parameters are adjustable under the LED with 4 buttons. The LED readout can be switched off and stay off. Box grounded to sink and house ground. Timer has power off memory maintain.

I will have N2 on the left side and compressed air on the right.

The water jacket tank set is 70's Calumet. I gallon tanks with 4-8X10 hangers of X-Ray. Water rise is adjustable by needle air valve and pressure. Set for 5/8" now.

Video https://youtu.be/9DddOzSUeRc I don't know what the ticking is and it's not the timer.


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[Jim C.]

Very cool, Randy !

[Duolab123]

I must say that's quite the set up. I found a new in box Kodak 90B timer and valve made by Lektra Labs. UPS shipping label says 1972, cost $1.27 to ship from Rochester to NYC. Seems like lately all I've been doing is work on my darkroom. That's half the fun! My hats off to you, splendid! !!
Mike

[Tin Can]

I must say that's quite the set up. I found a new in box Kodak 90B timer and valve made by Lektra Labs. UPS shipping label says 1972, cost $1.27 to ship from Rochester to NYC. Seems like lately all I've been doing is work on my darkroom. That's half the fun! My hats off to you, splendid! !!
Mike

I have one of those. Donated by member here, it was working for him and DOA here.

Have you looked inside?

Full of tubes...I couldn't find the problem and simply built this.

Mine counts down cycles and stops, yours needs an external timer. Are you using it?

I also like putzing about my darkroom. :)

[Duolab123]

Haven't even plugged it in, buts it adds to the ambience :-) I put casters on my 8 x 10 Elwood today, I just love this stuff. I don't have any gas distribution stuff just the pretty timer and valve. I look forward to seeing your progress!

[Tin Can]

I ran 2 sheets 8x10 X-Ray and 4-up 4X5 HP5 simultaneously in 1/100 Rodinal for 10 minutes with 1 sec burst and 10 sec delay. 55-11 second cycles.

Best looking negs I have done, not in trays. I can only do one sheet at a time in trays. My clumsy fingers have touch tactile, damage from diesel engine testing. Shuffling does not work for me.

I tried tank stand development for 12-8x10 at a time, but got bromide drag, so hello tiny bubbles!

I like this bubble system, I can cover tanks and turn on lights between dunks.

I will be adding a hose splitter for directing gas. I saw something that might be good in Beer Brewing gear.

[Duolab123]

I ran 2 sheets 8x10 X-Ray and 4-up 4X5 HP5 simultaneously in 1/100 Rodinal for 10 minutes with 1 sec burst and 10 sec delay. 55-11 second cycles.

Best looking negs I have done, not in trays. I can only do one sheet at a time in trays. My clumsy fingers have touch tactile, damage from diesel engine testing. Shuffling does not work for me.

I tried tank stand development for 12-8x10 at a time, but got bromide drag, so hello tiny bubbles!

I like this bubble system, I can cover tanks and turn on lights between dunks.

I will be adding a hose splitter for directing gas. I saw something that might be good in Beer Brewing gear.

I can sure relate to loss of sensitivity in my fingers, I'm pushing 60, anything that helps get the job done is a great help. I was reading on Adox's website ,they illuminate the darkrooms with IR and the workers where IR goggles. I use some toy IR Spynet goggles for loading my 2509n reels. Never had a problem but wouldn't think of trying it with extended red or IR film.I'm going to have fun. It's all about the journey 😊
Mike

[Michael Kadillak]

I ran 2 sheets 8x10 X-Ray and 4-up 4X5 HP5 simultaneously in 1/100 Rodinal for 10 minutes with 1 sec burst and 10 sec delay. 55-11 second cycles.

Best looking negs I have done, not in trays. I can only do one sheet at a time in trays. My clumsy fingers have touch tactile, damage from diesel engine testing. Shuffling does not work for me.

I tried tank stand development for 12-8x10 at a time, but got bromide drag, so hello tiny bubbles!



I use N2 burst with stand and semi stand development and it works great. Without the N2 it is a disaster. That I agree with you on.

[Tin Can]

I use N2 burst with stand and semi stand development and it works great. Without the N2 it is a disaster. That I agree with you on.

Doesn't seem to be many using Gas Burst on this forum. I posted a second thread with chemistry oxidation questions. No answers yet.

I see this will be a continuing path. Winter I will build plenums for 3.5 gallon tanks and a set of 7x17 tanks. Or Vinny...

Next month get a N2 tank. 150 CF tank handles pretty easily and my supply is 5 blocks away. The last piece as I have a N2 regulator.

[EdSawyer]

Where I work there is/was a Wing-Lynch 4 or 5 that could be available. It was complete, and set up for color (c41 and E6 I think.). But the throughput needed to keep it up and in shape was more than I could deal with, you really needed to be running pretty high volume through it to make it worth it. I think it's still sitting unused, but haven't checked in the last year or two.

[Tin Can]

Where I work there is/was a Wing-Lynch 4 or 5 that could be available. It was complete, and set up for color (c41 and E6 I think.). But the throughput needed to keep it up and in shape was more than I could deal with, you really needed to be running pretty high volume through it to make it worth it. I think it's still sitting unused, but haven't checked in the last year or two.

I saw a youtube of commercial D&D, way out of my league. I have one person suggest I setup for color and he will hire me. I don't want color and I don't want do OP processing.

The second timer arrived and installed.

My set-up will be fine. Next month a N2 tank and get a handle on gas consumption. N2 will be silent, my compressor disturbs the dark airs.

[Duolab123]

I saw a youtube of commercial D&D, way out of my league. I have one person suggest I setup for color and he will hire me. I don't want color and I don't want do OP processing.

The second timer arrived and installed.

My set-up will be fine. Next month a N2 tank and get a handle on gas consumption. N2 will be silent, my compressor disturbs the dark airs.

One thing I read in my booklets that came with my Kodak timer and valve was the need to humidify the N2 to keep the orifices of the gas distribution plenums from clogging with crystals. I think this was intended for labs running color that ran the system 8 hours a day continuously. I only mention this as it was news to me, I don't think that it was a problem with B&W developer. I wish I had the volume to do this, its very cool!! I have a friend that used a set up like this for sheet and roll film in baskets. This guy is a real darkroom Dude. He would load Nikor reels with 35mm B&W Tri-X back to back (2 rolls on one reel) Never had a problem. He shot catalog shots on 8x10 Ektachrome with a Deardorff. Got to keep this stuff Alive!

[analoguey]

I was wondering what a gas burst system actually did, thanks for the vid. Actually looks quite doable! Nice. (I'm assuming it's Best for film in hangers ie., LF only?)


Interesting. Just saw the response above - so it can be used for any film as well.
But would timing be changed much from say normally agitated development?

[Tin Can]

I was wondering what a gas burst system actually did, thanks for the vid. Actually looks quite doable! Nice. (I'm assuming it's Best for film in hangers ie., LF only?)


Interesting. Just saw the response above - so it can be used for any film as well.
But would timing be changed much from say normally agitated development?

I think it may be more like rotary processing which is continuous agitation. I can agitate any way I want by adjusting on time, off time and number of cycles. I could also do continuous agitation.

Michael Kadillak says in post #8, he does stand and semi stand with N2, which perhaps means he agitates with a long off cycle. Maybe 1 minute of initial agitation, then every 15 minutes for a short time. I am just guessing, I have no idea how Michael uses his system or his chemistry.

[analoguey]

Hmmm. Interesting, I'm following the other thread you started on chemistry. Looks a doable project but project nonetheless. :-)

[A_Tabor]

What kind of volume of gas release are these systems dealing with, and do you have to account for any kind of pre-heating of your incoming gas lines to avoid temperature shifts in your chemistry? (I've never dealt with a gas burst system in photography, other than to know of their existence, but have dealt with a somewhat similar process in a project for an industrial chemical production system in the past where we had real headaches with temperature control around the gas bubbles.)

[Jim Noel]

Randy,
A full size tank of Nitrogen will probably last you a year or more. You may want to consider the smaller tank which should last you several months unless you are doing a lot of film - that is more than 100 8x10's each month.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...] Next month a N2 tank and get a handle on gas consumption. N2 will be silent, my compressor disturbs the dark airs.

There are silent, or very quiet air compressors. Some are as quiet as normal conversation at three feet. The less expensive have CFM in free-air mode too low for power tools or spray painting, but are possibly adequate for burst, and with at least a 1 gallon tank they might work for you.

On my cheap compressor for the garage, the intake is the noisy part. Fortunately it takes common black gas pipe. Extending it considerably helps, but you have to experiment with length lest it 'burble' obnoxiously.

N2 is readily available here from welding and gas suppliers. Delivery is included.

I'm among the many following your thread. It's invaluable.

[Tin Can]

The only way to buy N2 reasonably is from the local welding supply. Some sell the tank, some rent, both are the same price! 150 CF costs about the same as smaller tanks. Refill requires pickup and delivery, in my area that's $25 next day. Gas is cheap.

Do NOT buy eBay new or used tanks from anyone. Your local will not refill it. They want only their tanks so they know what they have.

Also you should be well aware of proper handling of N2 tanks, pipe fitting, regulator requirements.

I am, since I used 300 Cf 4000 PSI N2 tanks by the dozens every day for decades. My N2 will be the 2000 PSI tank, which still requires a lot of respect. Here's a youtube 'expert' doing at least one thing wrong. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P14wdmmgheE) Can you spot his error?

[Jac@stafford.net]

[... snip great information ...] I am, since I used 300 Cf 4000 PSI N2 tanks by the dozens every day for decades. My N2 will be the 2000 PSI tank, which still requires a lot of respect. Here's a youtube 'expert' doing at least one thing wrong. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P14wdmmgheE) Can you spot his error?

The dummy does not have the tank in a stand or chained in a cart. God help him if it tips over. Gas Torpedo!
--
Jac who prefers 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen. :)

[Tin Can]

:).

[Tin Can]

My mistake perhaps as i have started 3 threads on this topic.

Here's a link to the first one which has more info.

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?121974-Woot!-I-just-found-N2-Burst-development-tanks-and-bought-them!&p=1239737&viewfull=1#post1239737