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Mike V Florida
18-Aug-2015, 00:25
Wondering when the bulb flash holder was first used. Did a pre anniversary Speed Graphic ever have a flash during the time it was produced? If so what kind?

LabRat
18-Aug-2015, 05:26
Don't know if this is helpful, but there was an article in Mod or Pop photo magazine long ago, (some title like "If you build a better mousetrap, the world will come to your door") that explained about the guy in Hollywood that made/marketed the first synchronizers for the new flashbulbs that appeared in the early '30s... I think the company was called "Sol"...

Hope that will provide some clues on where to look...

Steve K

Jac@stafford.net
18-Aug-2015, 06:16
Wondering when the bulb flash holder was first used. Did a pre anniversary Speed Graphic ever have a flash during the time it was produced? If so what kind?

Graphic Graflex Photography, first edition 1940 mentions that on-camera bulb flash had been in use since 1931, so yes the Speed Graphic could use a flash. Labrat mentions the "Sol" which was made by Heiland. There were a few other brands, too.

If you happen to be assembling a Speed with flash, the whole outfit should include the synchronizer which attaches to the lens board and the proper flash gun and cord to fire the flash and trigger the synchro which trips the shutter. The synchro was a solenoid and called a synchro because it included a delay between the flash and the shutter actuation. Delay (usually 1/50th of a second) was necessary to allow the bulb to reach full potential before the shutter fired.

Jim C.
18-Aug-2015, 07:04
Sol was King Sol, now known as Paramount cords. I have a Heiland branded flash gun so they were their own brand.

Jac@stafford.net
18-Aug-2015, 07:15
Sol was King Sol, now known as Paramount cords. I have a Heiland branded flash gun so they were their own brand.

So, King Sol was a different company. I'm pretty sure that Heiland eventually bought SOL and marked some that way. I was confused. Thanks for the information.

LabRat
18-Aug-2015, 07:41
As I remember, all the above information seems about right...

I 'm trying to scrape old thoughts from inside my mind about it... I do remember playing with a old (I think) Sol synchronizer many moons ago, but I do remember that the housing for it was much bigger than the later, smaller electromagnetic solenoid (high tech!!!), and operated differently, with something like an air piston inside, that made contact and then released the shutter (with some sort of "cocking button" to ready the unit for firing)... And the shape was like, (but smaller) one of those old bicycle headlight generators... Sometimes you will see one on an old Graphic... (They were VERY in demand back then, as bulbs had to be used in "open flash" modes before that!!!)

Do we have any old-timers here that can swat me on the head for not remembering all this correctly, and give us the skinny??? (The old timers knew flashbulbs + systems like their professional lives (really did) depend on it!!!

Steve K

Jac@stafford.net
18-Aug-2015, 09:07
[...]Do we have any old-timers here that can swat me on the head for not remembering all this correctly, and give us the skinny??? (The old timers knew flashbulbs + systems like their professional lives (really did) depend on it!!!

I will shake your hand, but not swat your head.

There have been many different kinds of bulb flash guns and synchronizers. Most synchros operated electrically from the flash unit. Some had a given delay (20 milliseconds), some had adjustable delays (a pain to calibrate). They would trip the shutter's lever rather than plug into a cable release socket. Here is just one kind (http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h160/beefy172/flashSynch.jpg). Then there were simple little mechanical units that plugged into the cable socket; they were X and M capable and adjustable. I have a Russian version like the one pictured on this site - here (http://ussrphoto.com/UserContent/synch%202.jpg).

I know of only one American battery-less flash (other than flash cubes), the Flash Tronic mentioned here in another thread. One turn of the winder is all that's needed to fire. Most were universal and only two were made for specific cameras (http://www.digoliardi.net/leica-flashtronic.jpg). I have several, and a scanned manual if anyone is interested. I combined a Flash Tronic with a three-way head (http://www.digoliardi.net/nobat_flash.jpg) just for the halibut.

It might surprise some that old flashbulbs are usually still usable. I've rarely had a failure or explosion. Probably the two scariest bulbs I have are the Mazda 75 which was used for night aerial photography, and another (forgot its Id) which burns very bright for 1.75 seconds and burns a thin plate rather than foil or wires. Welders glove for handling.

Jim C.
18-Aug-2015, 16:18
So, King Sol was a different company. I'm pretty sure that Heiland eventually bought SOL and marked some that way. I was confused. Thanks for the information.

There's a nice little history on the Paramount Cord site (http://www.paramountcords.com/about/) in regards to Sol/King Sol branded flash,
as far as I can tell it was never sold to Heiland.

Jac@stafford.net
18-Aug-2015, 16:21
There's a nice little history on the Paramount Cord site (http://www.paramountcords.com/about/) in regards to Sol/King Sol branded flash,
as far as I can tell it was never sold to Heiland.

More information is good. Thank you.
.

LabRat
18-Aug-2015, 17:59
Thanks Jac, but a swat across the head is fine (just like the old days)...

I was thinking that maybe it was the Jacobson synchronizer I was thinking about (that was first)... Revolutionary at the time, as it gave the proper delay, all the time (without depending on the finger speed that someone would press to fire bulb with the pre-burn, and then open shutter at peak output...)

Sounds like a question for Charles Monday or Bert Saunders at Graflex.org...

I had started using bulbs long ago,(as I couldn't afford a strobe) and the old salts were WELL versed in the seeming endless amount of information required for FB's... And could "lecture" you at the drop of a hat... (With the required swats on the head at will...)

Funny, as I had found a dirty old Heliand/Honeywell 65C "Futurematic" Strobonar manual "potato masher" on camera strobe (with the Graflex mounting clips ) in a photo junk box, that I carefully re-formed the caps inside for days, and FLASH, it fires!!! I had remembered that those were like "Star Wars" tech (and price) at that time, and probably was one of the larger hammers that nailed the FB coffin shut...

Oh, us little X-sync weenies...

Steve K

Mike V Florida
18-Aug-2015, 19:14
Excellent information, thanks. I have a pre anniversary, the board does have a Sol unit on it. The lens dates from 1936 and I'm not sure of the actual camera. I plan to show the camera along with my 1930 Ford at car shows. Over 85 years of the cameras life who knows what was done to it and I can see updates on the camera. I will start my search for a flash unit but based of what I see the star war geeks have driven up the prices of Graflex units to more than you can buy a camera. I know I will receive questions on the camera/flash so I want to be able to intelligently answer the questions. I also don't want a 60's flash on the camera if I can help it. Who knows I may even try to take pictures with it as I do with my Model B vest pocket.

Thanks again!!!

LabRat
18-Aug-2015, 19:55
You should be able to find a flash holder now, as the "light sabre" craze seems on the out these days... And there are other brands that that the "geek freaks" might turn up their noses at, so sanity returns...

I remember a prop guy telling me that for the "Star Wars" movies, that the prop guys would do a "locust run" of thrift stores to find ANYTHING that might resemble old tech, that could be adapted for the film... (So they probably found some old Graflite flashholders at the bottom of a thrift store box for 25 cents...) The sound of the hovercrafts was recorded with mics placed inside of old vacuum cleaner attachment tubes of traffic on the Hollywood Freeway...

Good luck with the show!!!!

Steve K

Bryen6611
21-Aug-2015, 09:14
when was the bulb flash holder first use,
This is what I got in the wikipedia,
"A flash is a device used in photography producing a flash of artificial light (typically 1/1000 to 1/200 of a second) at a color temperature of about 5500 K to help illuminate a scene. A major purpose of a flash is to illuminate a dark scene. Other uses are capturing quickly moving objects or changing the quality of light. Flash refers either to the flash of light itself or to the electronic flash unit discharging the light. Most current flash units are electronic, having evolved from single-use flashbulbs and flammable powders. Modern cameras often activate flash units automatically.

Flash units are commonly built directly into a camera. Some cameras allow separate flash units to be mounted via a standardized "accessory mount" bracket (a hot shoe). In professional studio equipment, flashes may be large, standalone units, or studio strobes, powered by special battery packs or connected to mains power. They are either synchronized with the camera using a flash synchronization cable or radio signal, or are light-triggered, meaning that only one flash unit needs to be synchronized with the camera, and in turn triggers the other units, called slaves."

Jac@stafford.net
21-Aug-2015, 09:29
Bryen, Wikipedia can be helpful if you search for the correct subject. This thread is concerned with the first flash bulb unit for a particular camera.
.

Jim Jones
21-Aug-2015, 11:35
For a particular camera it might be the one made specifically for the 1938 35mm Mercury camera. The Mercury had the World's first hot shoe. It also had a 1/1000 second rotary focal plane shutter which was more accurate than the shutter in Zeiss and Leica cameras, and perhaps more reliable. Unfortunately, it also had a proprietary 35mm film system that was used in no other camera, and no rangefinder. Other flash guns of the era could probably be adapted to a variety of cameras. The flash for the Mercury had no other way of connecting to the camera except through the hot shoe.

barnacle
22-Aug-2015, 07:23
If it's of any help, I have a couple of old medium formats to hand: the first is a Sanderson Junior quarter plate of unknown vintage, but probably around 1900 according to my limited research, has a Carl Zeiss Tessar 1:6.5 15cm lens with *no* synchronisation for a flash.

The second is more recent: a late 1940s MPP MicroPress. This was built in cooperation with Graflex to be very similar (I believe it may share some parts) to the Speed Graphic, at a time when import restrictions in the UK made the SG unobtainable. It's a rather wonderful thing: all the front movements, viewfinder via the ground glass or a sports finder, focus via the ground glass or a split image rangefinder, and exposure via the Schneider-Kreuznach Xenar 1:4.7/135 or through a multi-slot cloth focal plane shutter. There are synchronising connectors for a flash from both the lens (coaxial connector) and the focal plane shutter (male and female connector pegs). Odd that they're not the same... The rear shutter has F and S synchronisation selected by a lever on the side.

Neil

Edit: the MPP has what appears to be a post-factory modification to support a flash bulb holder - the flash gun consists of a collapsible-petal parabolic reflector and a battery holder. I have it around somewhere still, I think, but I can't put my hand on it.

Jac@stafford.net
22-Aug-2015, 08:42
If it's of any help, I have a couple of old medium formats to hand: the first is a Sanderson Junior quarter plate of unknown vintage, but probably around 1900 according to my limited research, has a Carl Zeiss Tessar 1:6.5 15cm lens with *no* synchronisation for a flash. [... snip excellent information ...]

No synch is where the Bulb setting came from. :)

It was not unusual to find shutters with no flash synch outlet. The ingenious little electric solenoids did the trick. Then there was the Flash Tronic which synchronized at the flash unit by an internal rotating cam which pushed the shutter release via the shutters socket.

Mike V Florida
29-Aug-2015, 02:21
You should be able to find a flash holder now, as the "light sabre" craze seems on the out these days... And there are other brands that that the "geek freaks" might turn up their noses at, so sanity returns...

I remember a prop guy telling me that for the "Star Wars" movies, that the prop guys would do a "locust run" of thrift stores to find ANYTHING that might resemble old tech, that could be adapted for the film... (So they probably found some old Graflite flashholders at the bottom of a thrift store box for 25 cents...) The sound of the hovercrafts was recorded with mics placed inside of old vacuum cleaner attachment tubes of traffic on the Hollywood Freeway...

Good luck with the show!!!!

Steve K

OMG if the prices I'm seeing are those that have died down, what were they before? The red button, just the button SOLD on ebay for 105.00 on the 12 of this month. Just the 3 battery holder, with two days left to bid is at 704.00 US dollars.

LabRat
29-Aug-2015, 02:32
Try hitting camera stores, camera shows, online camera stores, etc... Or look at Bay's listings in the camera/photo sections (for flash/flashholders, etc)... I started seeing some in the $25-$40 range... And look for brands like Sol, Kalart, Heiland (HR), etc...

They're out there...

Good Luck!!!!!

Steve K