View Full Version : 11x14 camera build attempt - Questions
The large format bug has really got me now and I would like to venture into ULF. Without going too big, I am thinking about building a 11x14 camera (never built one before) based on the design below. I would really appreciate help on the overall design of the camera and the questions below before I start building the camera.
Draft Design:
http://i.imgur.com/C9D93Ya.jpg
Questions:
Does this design seem appropriate? I know this is a loaded question but I have never built a camera before and I am looking for if I should attempt this or scratch it all together and start with a different design.
Is 3/8" Baltic Birch Plywood strong enough for framing the front and the rear standards?
Does anyone know a good play to get ball bearing rails? Actually, the question should be what rails should I use to support the base for the front standard?
I would like to use ball screw based focusing (similar to chamonix) but I can't seem to find these anywhere. Does anyone know what these are called and where I can find one?
Based on my CAD drawing, I should be able to get about 940mm bellows extension. Is this OK for 11x14 or will it be a problem for portraits with "normal" lens?
Does anyone know a good place for bellows? I saw a few on ebay but they seem to be from China and I would prefer to get them from someone in US.
Thanks, Pali
jbenedict
16-Aug-2015, 00:07
Looks fine. Are you a cabinet maker or journeyman machinist? To pull off this design, you need skills and tools. Drawing it on a screen and building it are two different things. There is another thread on here about designing a camera and doing a bulk buy on some of the parts. Might be a good thread to find and join.
Looks fine. Are you a cabinet maker or journeyman machinist? To pull off this design, you need skills and tools. Drawing it on a screen and building it are two different things. There is another thread on here about designing a camera and doing a bulk buy on some of the parts. Might be a good thread to find and join.
Thank you. My dad has a small machine shop and I plan to get the parts machined there. He'll probably be able to machine everything as long as I can provide blueprints for him so that is why I am building this in CAD first.
I'll look up the thread you mentioned.
Thanks again.
You can get most of the hardware you will need from McMaster-Carr
Linear Motion Bearings http://www.mcmaster.com/#linear-motion-carriages/=yiz449
Acme Threaded Rods http://www.mcmaster.com/#acme-threaded-rods/=yiz57r
Please keep us updated on the progress of you build, it looks very nice.
Jim
Tin Can
16-Aug-2015, 18:09
Buy the below from here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/304035-2-1-2-10-x-24-inch-2-foot-5-start-RH-Acme-threaded-rod-for-lead-screw-CNC-/131560890475?hash=item1ea1a3e06b). Much cheaper.
And this is also needed. (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-2-10-ACME-DELRIN-NUT-BLOCK-RH-for-acme-threaded-rod-5-start-CNC-3d-printer-/141739454906?hash=item21005471ba)
Use it for focus by adding a crank handle and make your load bearing ways from traditional woods.
See my website.
Baltic birch is great stuff. Use 1/2" or better yet 5/8" for the rear frame. Use finger joints made on the table saw.
This is the screw you're looking for:http://www.roton.com/page.aspx?id=16
Chamonix uses left hand screws in stainless steel. Roton doesn't list them on their site so i bought mine from chamonix. Most expensive part of the camera.
I made my front standard (lensboard portion) out of one piece of 3/4" baltic birch. No joints.
Look up the Phillips compact camera as well.
Linear guide bearings/rails from ebay.
Paul Metcalf
16-Aug-2015, 19:49
Well, I'm looking at a receipt that says "Camera Bellows" that came with my camera bellows that was made in Nov 2003 for a Conley 8x10 camera. The address is from Birmingham UK, but it lists the web address as "www.leefilters.com." I have a bunch of Lee Filters items that I use, but I simply don't remember getting this bellows from them. It makes sense that they could make bellows because they make the filter lens hoods for their systems which are kind of bellow-ishy LOL. I looked at their website, but it isn't obvious as to whether or not they make bellows, and since this was nearly 12 years ago I simply don't remember going through them to get my replacement Conley bellows. But, you might send them an email and tell them some crazy old fart got a bellows from them 12 years ago and can they make you one LOL. It was 180 pounds (money not weight) shipped 12 years ago to the US (Seattle) and it's awesome (heavy, well made). Unless you go with something used or hand-made I suspect THIS will be the most expensive part of your camera.
Thank you Jim, Randy, Vinny, and Paul. I just spent 30 minutes reviewing the links and the information you sent and placed a bulk order for parts from eBay. The project is officially ON and I am cautiously excited.
See my website.
Baltic birch is great stuff. Use 1/2" or better yet 5/8" for the rear frame. Use finger joints made on the table saw.
This is the screw you're looking for:http://www.roton.com/page.aspx?id=16
Chamonix uses left hand screws in stainless steel. Roton doesn't list them on their site so i bought mine from chamonix. Most expensive part of the camera.
I made my front standard (lensboard portion) out of one piece of 3/4" baltic birch. No joints.
Look up the Phillips compact camera as well.
Linear guide bearings/rails from ebay.
Vinny, so glad you chimed in because your beautiful camera is what inspired me to start this project. I am sure there will be many challenges ahead but knowing you are here gives me some comfort. I am going to follow your ideas with this design including milling the front standard from one piece. I went with 3/4" for the rear standard and 1/2" for the rotating back. BTW, I looked up the left hand screw but didn't find any so went with the acme screw that Randy posted. It seems that it will do the job and the price was really good.
I also lucked out and saw that there was a 11x14 holder for $250 so picked that up as well. Total so far is $440 with the film holder being more than 50% of it.
Here is the parts inventory to keep this DIY build logged for future.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/It%20beings.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/It%20beings%202.jpg
Back to CAD before the parts get delivered.
Pali
Well, I'm looking at a receipt that says "Camera Bellows" that came with my camera bellows that was made in Nov 2003 for a Conley 8x10 camera. The address is from Birmingham UK, but it lists the web address as "www.leefilters.com." I have a bunch of Lee Filters items that I use, but I simply don't remember getting this bellows from them. It makes sense that they could make bellows because they make the filter lens hoods for their systems which are kind of bellow-ishy LOL. I looked at their website, but it isn't obvious as to whether or not they make bellows, and since this was nearly 12 years ago I simply don't remember going through them to get my replacement Conley bellows. But, you might send them an email and tell them some crazy old fart got a bellows from them 12 years ago and can they make you one LOL. It was 180 pounds (money not weight) shipped 12 years ago to the US (Seattle) and it's awesome (heavy, well made). Unless you go with something used or hand-made I suspect THIS will be the most expensive part of your camera.
Paul, this is quite interesting because I too use lee filters and never would have thought they make bellows. I may go with the seller on eBay (ecbuyonline2008) which seems to have good reviews for past bellows sales. I am going to buy the bellows last once I have built the entire camera and know exactly what bellows will fit best.
Pali
Peter De Smidt
16-Aug-2015, 21:44
Lee Filters used to own Camera Bellows. The company is now called Custom Bellows, http://www.custombellows.co.uk/ .
Paul Metcalf
17-Aug-2015, 06:47
Thanks Peter for the info and link, you made my day. To know that this company is still in business and doing what they've done for a long time just warms the cockles of my heart. I guess it's because of all the changes (losses) in the photo industry. And again I'll vouch that they (now custombellows) make a very fine product.
Fr. Mark
17-Aug-2015, 21:24
You could make your own bellows. Tedious, but do-able. Non-tapering is easier than tapered, but there are instructions either on this site or on the net. I think Harlan may be a key word to look up.
Fwiw, people also grind lenses and make emulsions too...not sure how far you have to go to call it DIY!
You could make your own bellows. Tedious, but do-able. Non-tapering is easier than tapered, but there are instructions either on this site or on the net. I think Harlan may be a key word to look up.
Fwiw, people also grind lenses and make emulsions too...not sure how far you have to go to call it DIY!
Thank you. I looked into making bellows and it seems that it will take a great bit of time to get it right especially for one at this size. I feel that I can rely on being able to control the quality of the camera but not the bellows.
For ground glass, I will be doing this myself using #400 and #600 carbide grit. I should have most of the parts delivered by next week and the build will start soon after.
ImSoNegative
18-Aug-2015, 07:07
very cool Pali good luck with your project please post pictures as you are putting it together
calibre61
18-Aug-2015, 07:14
Well, I'm looking at a receipt that says "Camera Bellows" that came with my camera bellows that was made in Nov 2003 for a Conley 8x10 camera. The address is from Birmingham UK, but it lists the web address as "www.leefilters.com." I have a bunch of Lee Filters items that I use, but I simply don't remember getting this bellows from them. It makes sense that they could make bellows because they make the filter lens hoods for their systems which are kind of bellow-ishy LOL. I looked at their website, but it isn't obvious as to whether or not they make bellows, and since this was nearly 12 years ago I simply don't remember going through them to get my replacement Conley bellows. But, you might send them an email and tell them some crazy old fart got a bellows from them 12 years ago and can they make you one LOL. It was 180 pounds (money not weight) shipped 12 years ago to the US (Seattle) and it's awesome (heavy, well made). Unless you go with something used or hand-made I suspect THIS will be the most expensive part of your camera.
calibre61
18-Aug-2015, 07:16
Camera Bellows no longer exists, they restarted under the name Custom Bellows Ltd in 2008
I just think a frame (sturdier) and not pillars for the front standard...
Do you intend to make it fold up into the rear?
Remember that people are constantly throwing out old flatbed scanners wherein there are belts and lead screws of all sorts(support recycling) :-)
Tons of good wishes with the project and I will follow your progress with great anticipation.
I'm interested in how you're going to deal with the back
the back is the only critical part of the camera
I could make a camera with a cardboard box if I had a back with proper dimensions for film plane/gg plane
Jim Jones
18-Aug-2015, 11:44
I just think a frame (sturdier) and not pillars for the front standard...
Do you intend to make it fold up into the rear?
I agree. For many years I used a B&J flatbed with a front standard much like the ones the OP proposed. That camera incorporated slides and swings in the front standard, and tilts on the lens board frame. It could have been sturdier. If no slides and swings are intended, securing the front standard to the baseboard with a wider base as shown below would be much stronger. Slides can be eliminated if both front and rear standards have swings. In this case, rather than swing and clamp the front standard about a central screw, consider a clamping screw in a slot hear each edge of the front standard. This more directly clamps the front standard to the baseboard rather than relying on minimum torque of the base of the front standard.
As for the focusing screw, for readily available material and items, I'd use a standard hardware store V-threaded brass rod running in a threaded hardwood split nut. Lignum Vitae might be a first choice if available, but I grow an excess of Osage Orange at home. The split nut can be tightened as necessary to minimize backlash.
The support for the rear standard may be versatile, but looks awfully flimsy.
138579
very cool Pali good luck with your project please post pictures as you are putting it together
Thank you! All items have shipped as of this afternoon and they are all scheduled to arrive before Saturday. I will be taking many pictures and potentially videos to share with everyone here.
I just think a frame (sturdier) and not pillars for the front standard...
Do you intend to make it fold up into the rear?
Yes, I am hopeful that if done right - this should fold into 18x18 square about 4-5 inches high. I thought about the frame similar to my Deardorff V8 but I would think 3/8" aluminum pillars should be sturdy enough. They will most likely need corner support that is not pictured in the draft design.
I'm interested in how you're going to deal with the back
the back is the only critical part of the camera
I could make a camera with a cardboard box if I had a back with proper dimensions for film plane/gg plane
Agreed and I feel the same way. I ordered a film holder so the back can be built around it. I know the basics of what needs to be done but the key challenge will be springs and ground glass placement. I am hoping that having the film holder in hand while building will help. I also plan to mimic the Deardorff 8x10 back and scale to 11x14 as reference.
I agree. For many years I used a B&J flatbed with a front standard much like the ones the OP proposed. That camera incorporated slides and swings in the front standard, and tilts on the lens board frame. It could have been sturdier. If no slides and swings are intended, securing the front standard to the baseboard with a wider base as shown below would be much stronger. Slides can be eliminated if both front and rear standards have swings. In this case, rather than swing and clamp the front standard about a central screw, consider a clamping screw in a slot hear each edge of the front standard. This more directly clamps the front standard to the baseboard rather than relying on minimum torque of the base of the front standard.
As for the focusing screw, for readily available material and items, I'd use a standard hardware store V-threaded brass rod running in a threaded hardwood split nut. Lignum Vitae might be a first choice if available, but I grow an excess of Osage Orange at home. The split nut can be tightened as necessary to minimize backlash.
The support for the rear standard may be versatile, but looks awfully flimsy.
138579
Jim, these are all great pointers - thank you! I have been studying various camera designs and the svedovsky camera uses the double locks as you suggested. For me it's hard to compromise on movements just yet because I have no idea how things will come around and feel once the camera starts taking shape. I have plenty of wiggle room to learn from experience on the project. Also the general design is modular enough to build/learn/enhance as I go along and that is why I am being ambitious to start with a design that has all movements except rear swing. That one is easy to let go for me because I have never used it on my 8x10.
Regarding the focusing screw, I bought 5 Start ACME Rod and Nut that Randy posted in this thread earlier. I am hopeful the set will do the job just fine. Regarding rear standard support, I will be adding L shape support which is common to pretty much all camera designs along with heavy duty hinges. Haven't found ideal hinges yet so they may be custom machined from steel for this project.
I appreciate everyone interest and help on this project. Not everything is finalized in the design yet but that is by choice because I want to adapt as I learn more from the process. Really hoping that all of you will stick around to see the progress and help me make the decisions as things go along.
I will follow the following basic plan once the birch plywood gets shipped:
Camera base will be built first. Seems straightforward and should provide the platform to get things rolling. The base will have an aluminum plate very similar to my Deardorff V8 for mounting on the tripod.
I will then add the focus rail with all movements including focus screw and guided rails.
The front standard will go next. I haven't fully settled on if it should be a 8" square with 6" lens boards (to match my Deardorff) or 10" square with 6-7" lens boards. Waiting for the bellows maker to get back on what is the "typical" bellows size for 11x14 camera to help make the decision.
Next will be the rear standard and rotating back with springs. The hope is that by this point, there will be many opportunities to learn on what works and what doesn't giving the best chance to get the back right.
Pali
Jim Jones
19-Aug-2015, 05:35
Rather than the expense and construction inconvenience of an aluminum plate for a tripod socket, use either a T-nut inset into the top of the base plate and extending to flush with the bottom surface, or 1/4x20 brass insert threaded and epoxied into the bottom plate. These are cheaper and more durable than aluminum. Adding a 3/8x16 socket during construction is better than adding one later.
There seem to be variations in the dimensions of ULF film holders. Others with experience in ULF can advise you about this better than I can. A variety of holders that otherwise fit but have differing "T" spacing (the distance from the face of the holder to the back of the septum) can be used if the focus is adjusted by the variation in the T distance after focusing on the ground glass.
Rather than the expense and construction inconvenience of an aluminum plate for a tripod socket, use either a T-nut inset into the top of the base plate and extending to flush with the bottom surface, or 1/4x20 brass insert threaded and epoxied into the bottom plate. These are cheaper and more durable than aluminum. Adding a 3/8x16 socket during construction is better than adding one later.
There seem to be variations in the dimensions of ULF film holders. Others with experience in ULF can advise you about this better than I can. A variety of holders that otherwise fit but have differing "T" spacing (the distance from the face of the holder to the back of the septum) can be used if the focus is adjusted by the variation in the T distance after focusing on the ground glass.
Thank you again Jim. Will keep these in mind during the build. I ordered the Film holder that has arrived and quick tape measurements show that it matches the specs here: http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html
Here are the two parts that I have received so far - the start is getting near :)
http://i.imgur.com/P5hWuZp.jpg
Question regarding bellows. I contacted Rudy (ebay seller) for bellows size recommendations and I am having some challenge due to language differences. My question to him was how "thick" should the bellows fold be for 11x14. By this I mean, should the inner size be 1 inch less than the outer size making the rear outer size 17 inch square and inner size 15 inch square for my build? Does anyone know what is ideal size that I should provide for the bellows fold size?
Hey Paul, just checking if you have an update on your progress..... :)
Jim
Yes, I have been trying to sneak a full camera on you guys but you brought this back to the top : )
Here is the status on the camera:
- Machining for all parts except rotating back has been completed
- The lead screw still has to be sized and needs a slot done on a lathe machine before it is ready for the camera
- Dad just got the front and rear standard frames done this week and I now have final measurements to order the bellows - these will be ordered in a day or do.
The camera is mostly in ready to assemble stage but I do not have picture of everything just yet. I plan to take a day off soon to spend a full day with my dad and get the pieces assembled and transform them to take the shape of the camera. So far, things have gone slow but smooth and I am starting to get an appreciation for the size and weight of ULF. It won't be easy but sure will be fun.
And here are a few pictures that I think are probably of the most interest to all : ) BTW, my dad made some modifications based on his experience and swears he is making things stronger and lighter and not the other way around. I will be taking very detailed pictures when I assemble this so I can document how it all comes together.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20150830_101205.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20150830_102814.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20150830_105412.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20150916_130634.jpg
- Pali
Two more
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20150916_130810.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20150826_135829.jpg
phillip2446
12-Oct-2015, 19:36
updates please. i am about to start making an 11x14 back soon and eagerly waiting to see how yours is turning out.
Tin Can
12-Oct-2015, 22:34
Thank you again Jim. Will keep these in mind during the build. I ordered the Film holder that has arrived and quick tape measurements show that it matches the specs here: http://home.earthlink.net/~eahoo/page8/filmhold.html
Here are the two parts that I have received so far - the start is getting near :)
http://i.imgur.com/P5hWuZp.jpg
Question regarding bellows. I contacted Rudy (ebay seller) for bellows size recommendations and I am having some challenge due to language differences. My question to him was how "thick" should the bellows fold be for 11x14. By this I mean, should the inner size be 1 inch less than the outer size making the rear outer size 17 inch square and inner size 15 inch square for my build? Does anyone know what is ideal size that I should provide for the bellows fold size?
Did you get the bellows dimensions figured out? Sorry, but I only now noticed your question.
I had 3 Deardorff bellows made by Turner of Rochester a couple years ago, they no longer make custom bellows.
They were for a SC 11X14 Studio Deardorff. I just measured the inside dimension to be 14X14" with 1" square folds and the bellows are straight with no taper.
I need to make a 11X14 box camera this winter. :)
Did you get the bellows dimensions figured out? Sorry, but I only now noticed your question.
I had 3 Deardorff bellows made by Turner of Rochester a couple years ago, they no longer make custom bellows.
They were for a SC 11X14 Studio Deardorff. I just measured the inside dimension to be 14X14" with 1" square folds and the bellows are straight with no taper.
I need to make a 11X14 box camera this winter. :)
Thank you Randy but I managed to figure out the bellows dimensions. I am using 16x16 inner for the rear and 8x8 inner for the front which will give me room to shoot upto 16x16 plates if I ever want to upgrade this setup. Here are some parts that were made yesterday to support the front and rear standards. I am hoping the camera will be done by next week.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Front%20Standard.jpg
You definitely need to make a box camera this winter - always need more cameras :)
updates please. i am about to start making an 11x14 back soon and eagerly waiting to see how yours is turning out.
Phillip, the basic outline was machined yesterday but it is going to gets its real shape tomorrow. I'll post pictures as soon as I can.
phillip2446
13-Oct-2015, 17:08
thanks :)
I have been struggling to get the camera finished because of ridiculous deadlines at work and conflicting priorities for my dad. Even though the puzzle pieces are almost all done, there is still good bit of work to do on the back and mounting screws/nuts that there is several hours of machining time needed to finish the camera. My dad just mentioned that he has some rush jobs that will take pretty much all his attention for the next 3 weeks and the camera will have to wait.
With that, here are the pictures of what everything looks like right now. Bellows shipped from china a few days ago and should be here around time to start machining the remaining items.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151016_080919%20(Custom).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151016_080924%20(Custom).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151016_080937%20(Custom).jpg
On a positive side, the parts look very clean and I am sure sanding and finishing this will make it look really nice. I am also starting to get a sense for the final weight of the camera and this might actually be light enough to lug around a few miles.
BTW, what color should I anodize the aluminum parts? I am leaning towards red (vs black) which might go well with darker wood stain/finish and black bellows.
Tin Can
19-Oct-2015, 19:38
Red!
Red!
Done! Will go with Red.
StoneNYC
5-Dec-2015, 01:40
Wow! This puts my home made box camera to shame! I wish I could have someone make me those parts for my 14x17 (which would be 14x20 in case I wanted to do 14x20 or 12x20 backs for sometime in the future).
Amazing!
Thanks Stone. I started working on it again this week and have a few more parts ready. So close but still some work left to do.
It's moving slower now because I keep running into things that require some thinking and ordering parts that will go best with it. For example, mechanism to clamp the rotating back on the camera and etc.
Bellows are here so will be making bellows frame and attaching it to assembled standards soon. Will post pics when things look materially different :)
Picking things back up and now it's time for the smaller items.
Front standard with Deardorff board
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151129_180924%20(Custom).jpg
Lead Screw Mount - Custom Part
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151207_175337%20(Custom).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151207_175351%20(Custom).jpg
Lead Screw Focusing Knob - Custom Part
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151208_123742%20(Custom).jpg
I also ordered a good bit of knurled nuts and bolts to use as the locking hardware for the standards that should arrive next week.
Jim Fitzgerald
8-Dec-2015, 14:12
Pali K nice looking build so far. I've built five ULF cameras now and it id best o take your time. You have to think backwards from time to time. No matter how much you plan you always have to adjust as you go. Great learning experience.
BTW, where did you find the lead screw. It is still one of those things I have not researched yet.
Pali K nice looking build so far. I've built five ULF cameras now and it id best o take your time. You have to think backwards from time to time. No matter how much you plan you always have to adjust as you go. Great learning experience.
BTW, where did you find the lead screw. It is still one of those things I have not researched yet.
Thank you Jim! I certainly am taking time to think through things because I know that small mistakes at this stage will likely cause bigger headaches. The latest challenges for now is how to build a spring mechanism for the back that is clean and effective. The ground glass frame that will go on the back is quite large in this format and I know that I will need relatively strong spring system to provide adequate pressure. I would appreciate if you have any ideas on this that have worked for you in your previous builds.
Regarding the screw, it is a "acme rod" that was a suggestion in this thread earlier. If you do a search for "acme threaded rod" on ebay, you will get plenty of options. One thing to note is that right-handed rods are very common but it means that the front standard will move towards the back of the camera when you rotate the focus know clockwise. Based on my understanding, production cameras with this focus mechanism use left-handed rods so the focus movement is reversed. I figured if our minds can get used to upside down images, they can probably adjust to reversed focus as well :)
Nice work indeed.
Thank you Sergei! It has been a really exciting project so far.
Jim Fitzgerald
8-Dec-2015, 22:05
Pali, thanks. I think I may have read that somewhere and I'll look into it. As far as the springs go look on Mc Master Carr's website as I think my friend Vinny used some feeler gauge spring steel for his camera. I have always purchased mine on E-bay from the Deardorff guy.
On my 8 x 20 I used some brass that I laminated together (I forget how) that is working fine after many years. It was my first build and took m 18 months.
Lachlan 717
9-Dec-2015, 13:36
Pali K nice looking build so far. I've built five ULF cameras now and it id best o take your time. You have to think backwards from time to time. No matter how much you plan you always have to adjust as you go. Great learning experience.
BTW, where did you find the lead screw. It is still one of those things I have not researched yet.
Jim,
Search on eBay under something like "lead screw 5 start" or "lead screw start".
I've gone for 8mm (5/16" roughly) 4 start for my current build. This will move the standard 8mm/turn. 5 start would have moved it more; however, I could only find 1/2" and that was simply too thick/heavy. Also, I won't need the whole thread with the design I plan, making the finer movement a better option.
It's coming out of China, but very cheap and free postage.
Just searched for 8mm 4 start and Amazon has a nice 300mm with nut. http://www.amazon.com/L300mm-Lead-Start-Screw-Printer/dp/B00PXIEK50
I may get that to replace my original purchase I suggested here for the 1/2" 5 start.
8mm is almost exactly 5/16"
Jim Fitzgerald
9-Dec-2015, 19:45
So what is everyone using for the shaft guide support? I've found left hand threaded screws.
So what is everyone using for the shaft guide support? I've found left hand threaded screws.
Amazon shows suggested purchases with the one I linked to, such as supports. Look at that page. The screw I linked comes with 2 nuts.
Today's Update
Front and Rear Standards
Slot is for trapping light.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151210_113010.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151210_113318.jpg
With Rotating 11x14 Back
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151210_113020.jpg
MAubrey
10-Dec-2015, 14:57
This is really beautiful.
It seems that the more time I put into this - the more time the camera demands in return. Thankfully, I can see progress which is keeping me going. Here is the latest update.
Front Standard Complete and assembled.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151220_162512%20(Custom).jpg
Looks like the measurements worked. The camera folds...perfectly!
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151220_163135%20(Custom).jpg
On a not so exciting note, I made an error while milling a small slot for the film holder's lock position. I really think that the entire back frame needs to be redone which took multiple hours of machine time over many weeks. This is going to push the completion date back a week or so :( This is not all bad news because I can use this one as my 16x16 wet-plate back when I am ready for that project.
Here is what is remaining:
- Redo rotating back.
- Build and install bellows frames (Front and Back).
- Install custom hinges for rear standard. These were built today but haven't installed them yet.
- Need new cabinet drawer sliders. Changed design since the rail mount is really heavy. The camera is sturdy as is so going to go with cabinet drawer slider that are much lighter.
- Adjust several bolt lengths.
- Deal with any new surprises.
Wish me luck.
Tin Can
20-Dec-2015, 21:23
Looking good. Put a washer on the front shift bolt...maybe!
Looking good. Put a washer on the front shift bolt...maybe!
Thanks Randy! And Yes, there will absolutely will be washers where appropriate. Some of this is just temporary hardware to test things out.
Getting closer...
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151222_133549%20(Custom).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151222_140603%20(Custom).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151222_140921%20(Custom).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151222_144921%20(Custom).jpg
Fr. Mark
23-Dec-2015, 17:27
I am really enjoying watching this come together!
Also thanks for posting progress.
Greg
Stephen Thomason
23-Dec-2015, 18:52
Wow. That looks great. I'm subscribing to this thread.
Thank you everyone! I am super excited at this stage and my goal is to make some negatives before new years - I think I can make it.
I spent all day yesterday and today on the final parts that needed to be machined for the camera. They are all DONE! Now, it's time for the remaining assembly which I will likely start in 2 days to let the freshly glued bellows frames sit for 2 days. Also need to break away to enjoy the holiday.
I will have some exciting pictures and information on final specs to go along very soon :)
Looks like I pulled this off!
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151226_203041.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151226_203639.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151226_203656.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151226_203748.jpg
Craig Roberts
26-Dec-2015, 21:46
Nice work.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151226_203807.jpg
The camera feels super solid. Time for final clean up, coating with bees wax, light checks, finalize locking bolts and misc hardware, and then make some negatives!
Camera Specs:
Full movements front and rear.
Total Weight: 26.4 Pounds. I plan to machine out extra wood and replace steel bolts with aluminum. Hoping that that the final weight will be around 20-22 pounds.
Bellows: ~100 - 1100 mm
I really can't believe that I was able to pull this off. I am beyond excited! Thank you to everyone who guided me through the process - I truly appreciate it. Will keep posting progress photos until this is fully ready.
Regards, Pali
Nice work.
Thank you Craig!
Jim Fitzgerald
26-Dec-2015, 22:27
Nice to see that you have a great camera to take you into the new year. Congratulations!
Tin Can
27-Dec-2015, 09:05
Very nice!
Fr. Mark
27-Dec-2015, 21:23
Wow, that looks like a lot of fun to use! Congratulations.
Thanks once again everyone. I wanted to wait until everything was done (final hardware, custom back springs, red anodized aluminum, etc.) to post another update but last night's shenanigans are too exciting not to share.
So, the camera did extremely well with the light leak tests. I basically had no light leaks other than the expected area where the film holder needed to sit flat on the back. I knew that the plywood was not 100% flat and would need something. To fix this, I simply glued a layer of felt cloth which resolved all light leaks. The camera did extremely well under studio lights but true test will be when I shoot with it in full sunlight. Anyways, here are the pictures that are way more exciting than anything I can say at this point.
1st Setup
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_19591903.JPG
And.. 1st Negative!
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_22503005.JPG
Under more light to show the camera itself after sanding. Shows lens board locking plates.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_23085111.JPG
Using strong tape as temporary solution to hold the back and ground glass frame. Back is attached in the wrong direction in this photo which I must have done by accident after removing the film holder.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_23091813.JPG
Pali
And some more to show the flexibility of the camera.
Minimum Bellows
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_23192215.JPG
Maximum Bellows - Not pushing the bellows but camera can do 2-3 inches more.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_23140214.JPG
Snake
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_23203517.JPG
Rear tilt
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_23234718.JPG
Pali
It folds :) I need to do some fine tuning on the front standard frame so it folds perfectly flat. It's just so slightly off right now.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151230_23593322.JPG
Pali
Happy New Year!
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1598/23738622029_9c8e6ac5b1_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CaGDhH)
Flower Still - 1st ULF Negative 11x14 (https://flic.kr/p/CaGDhH) by Pali K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/), on Flickr
Fr. Mark
1-Jan-2016, 21:42
Pretty amazing!
Pretty amazing!
Thank you so much!
Took the camera out with the help of a photography buddy. The camera tested out great in outdoor lighting but I completely messed up the development on the negative. Turns out that my normal mix of 600ML chemistry is only good for 1 11x14 negative. Rookie mistake.
Negative is extremely thin with some uneven marks on edges and that is why I cropped it down to 9x14 and tried to recover as much as possible from a scan.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1621/24055857142_c750da42ca_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CDJyeC)
9x14 crop from 11x14 Negative (https://flic.kr/p/CDJyeC) by Pali K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/), on Flickr
I also managed to finally figure out a good solution for the back springs. Instead of using springs, I am using elastic cord with custom clamps. This system works extremely well but I don't know how long the tension will last. The cord was a mere $3 so if it goes bad, I will just simply replace it which should take no more than 10 minutes.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160104_003829.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160104_003838.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160104_003841.jpg
Pali
That's a clever idea. For $3, too, it isn't difficult to have a back up on hand.
I'm starting my own 11x14 build now and was thinking about using magnets, but this looks like it might be simpler.
Pali,
Your back is so close to being all you want. You need spring steel to replace the soft steel 'flaps and rubber'.
Don't stop, soon it will be perfect, darn there near right now!
Pali,
Your back is so close to being all you want. You need spring steel to replace the soft steel 'flaps and rubber'.
Don't stop, soon it will be perfect, darn there near right now!
Thank you Randy!
Do you mean I should replace the blue cords with a proper steel spring mechanism? If so, I spent a long time trying to find a product that would work with a back of this size. Ones I could find (e.g., feeler gauge, hack saw blades, etc.) were all too small in length or didn't provide adequate pressure. I looked into steel plates to manufacture a custom spring but based on my understanding, the steel would have to be hardened afterwards to get the best results. I intend on doing this in the future if this elastic cord solution fails or becomes impractical to use in the field.
This on the other hand, works amazingly well. Please share any ideas (with pictures peferably) on how you think I can improve on this back because I do plan to make more backs for the camera. Remember, this camera has an internal opening of 16x16 and I just realized that the bellows are 17.5"x17.5" square meaning I can adapt this to a 14x17 in the future. Endless possibilities to keep this project going a little bit longer :)
Tonight, I will be mounting the back locks which will eliminate all gorilla tape that I have had to carry with me to use the camera. As always, I will post detailed pictures to log the build. Next week, the aluminum will go to metal plating shot for a nice red anodize bath.
Pali
Fr. Mark
4-Jan-2016, 19:59
Randy: sometimes good enough is perfect!
Manufacturing custom springs? Bah, humbug.
Pali: Ektascan B/RA is available from ZZ medical in 14x17". It's a great single sided X-ray film. I love it in 8x10 which usually becomes 4x5 or 5x7 in my hands. I keep mentioning it because it may be some time before I get my 14x17 built and I want the film to still be around!
I made hacksaw blade springs for an 8x10 camera. First, I used a propane torch to anneal them. Next ground off the teeth and shaped them. I should have hardened them but all the shaping seems to have work hardened them enough. But, my camera back is like Earl Hoover's: there is a sort of slot into which the ground glass holder or film holder goes, so I don't need huge pressure.
I can understand Randy's sentiments on not compromising and he has motivated me to try one more thing before I give up on a spring back. Based on his recommendation, I found some spring steel material on eBay that is apparently used in tattoo machines - I just placed an order for some for $8.99. The measurements for these are not perfect but I have some ideas on how I can work with it. Once I get it in hand, I'll see what I can do and report back my updates. For now, the elastic cord solution works just as well as proper backs and even looks clean. As Mark mentioned, this seems "good enough and perfect" at least for now and let's me go out and shoot without having to carry tape with me :)
As for last night's update, I managed to get rid of all tape! I bought some small 1.5" tension locks from Amazon ($12.99 for 10 pack) that seem to be perfect for what I need. Below are some pictures of how I have mounted these for now but I do plan on updating the locking wire with a custom part that might be more ideal. Basically, I want to create a L hook that moves with the lock and clamps on the back with pressure without requiring any hardware to be screwed on the back. Goal is to have a slightly cleaner back.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160105_002536.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160104_235745.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160105_002549.jpg
For anyone curious, I built a spreadsheet to do a total for how much this camera has costed in raw materials and it is about $680 so far with bellows being the most expensive part. Some of the cost is related to wasted supplies/materials that I tried to use but failed for one reason or another. If I were to do it again, this camera would cost at least $100 less.
Mark - thanks for suggesting the xray film. I have read up on the xray film threads with hope to get into it soon. Based on what I know so far, my plan is to start with the single sided Extascan B/RA film because of the convenience it provides during development. I'll be ordering some in 8x10 later this year to get used to it and I too hope it stays around as I fully intend to shoot it in 14x17 when that back is ready.
BTW, do you have any pictures on how you made your "Earl Hoover" back? I saw a custom built 20x24 camera that had the back that you described and I wondered how it locked on the camera to trap all light. It'll be helpful to see how it's made to evaluate if this design is more ideal for the next back.
Thanks again to everyone for continued support!
Jim Fitzgerald
5-Jan-2016, 08:56
Pali, I'm in the middle of a build on my 3rd 14 x 17 camera. Once I get to the assembly stage I'll document the whole thing. I always build my backs starting with the film holder and build out from there. To hold the back on I use sliding clips at the top and a u shaped clip at the bottom. You have to make sure that this is as tight as you can make it and then I always put some sticky back felt on the back to insure a light tight fit. I'll try to post some images later.
I remember I cut some long pieces of brass and epoxied them together for the springs on my first build which was my 8 x 20. It holds great. I'll have to look a see if I kept any notes as to how I did that. I know I used a double layer of brass like a leaf spring. The tension is very good.
Pali, I'm in the middle of a build on my 3rd 14 x 17 camera. Once I get to the assembly stage I'll document the whole thing. I always build my backs starting with the film holder and build out from there. To hold the back on I use sliding clips at the top and a u shaped clip at the bottom. You have to make sure that this is as tight as you can make it and then I always put some sticky back felt on the back to insure a light tight fit. I'll try to post some images later.
I remember I cut some long pieces of brass and epoxied them together for the springs on my first build which was my 8 x 20. It holds great. I'll have to look a see if I kept any notes as to how I did that. I know I used a double layer of brass like a leaf spring. The tension is very good.
Thank you Jim and looking forward to the information on your camera. Good idea on locking system for the back - it makes sense and I can look into this for the future. BTW, I was able to completely block all light by simply making a light trap slot on the back. It's hard to describe but if you look at one of my earlier photos of the back standard (without the back) you'll see that it has a square pocket around each side. The back has the opposite extruded slot that sits into this pocket and based on my testing, it blocks off all light even if the back is not tightly secured to the standard frame.
Thanks for the info on the springs. I just noticed that Vinny posted in a different thread that you can get feeler gauges in rolls which is now news to me. I tried to look for anything longer than 12" and was not so successful but I never bothered to look for rolls. I'll look into it if the steel springs I bought do not work out.
I do have another question about a good solution for a darkcloth and a carrying bag for something this big. Do you have any thoughts on what I should look into? Thanks Jim!
Jim Fitzgerald
5-Jan-2016, 16:33
I use a lightweight cloth I think from Outdoor wilderness fabric. It is silver on one side and black on the other and weights next to nothing. Never can remember the link. For a pack my 11 x 14 fits in a MEI backpack. You should be able to find one on e-bay. Cheap but made real well. I have three of them.
Michael Roberts
5-Jan-2016, 16:56
Pali,
Regarding potential springs being too short, keep in mind your springs don't have to go all the way across. You can use four springs, one for each corner of your gg frame.
Andrew O'Neill
5-Jan-2016, 20:08
Very nice work, Pali K. Did you machine the end of the threaded rod to accept knurled knob, or did you buy it like that? I haven't been able to find any rods like that. I've been meaning to fix my 14x17...
Thanks Jim - I think I found the fabric on their website. It seems to be the only Silver Black fabric under their Taffeta fabrics. Thanks for the suggestion for the MEI backpacks. I am browsing the selection now and will order one soon.
Pali,
Regarding potential springs being too short, keep in mind your springs don't have to go all the way across. You can use four springs, one for each corner of your gg frame.
Michael that's a great tip - thank you! I'll do just this. My original thought was to connect it with a normal aluminum piece to extend the overall size to the desired length but this is much simpler.
Very nice work, Pali K. Did you machine the end of the threaded rod to accept knurled knob, or did you buy it like that? I haven't been able to find any rods like that. I've been meaning to fix my 14x17...
Andrew - thank you! The rod needed some machining which included sizing to required length and lathe cuts in two places to sized down the diameter. One was to support the knob fitting and another to mount a bracket that would hold the rod in place while focusing. Take a look at the picture below which shows the "holding bracket" that is mounted on a similar machined are as the end that is shown without the focusing knob. Hope this helps.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20151207_175337%20(Custom).jpg
Jim Fitzgerald
5-Jan-2016, 21:43
Where did you find the holding bracket?
Fr. Mark
5-Jan-2016, 21:45
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eeahoo/camera.html turns out it is Edward not Earl, sorry. I'll see about some pictures of what I'm talking about with my interpretation later.
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eeahoo/page3/64.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eeahoo/page3/47.jpg
The best pic of the springs is #52, I think. this is a 4x5 camera and things don't always scale up linearly...ex an 8x10 is not 2x as big it is 8x as big 2x2x2=8 and making springs 2x as big may not be enough...
Andrew O'Neill
5-Jan-2016, 23:15
Jim, I believe those brackets are on ebay...
Jim Fitzgerald
5-Jan-2016, 23:42
Andrew thank you.
Where did you find the holding bracket?
Jim, it was an easy part machined on a milling machine out of delrin material. It's built in two pieces that clamp together using the two screws that you see on top. BTW, I went to a locak fabric store (JoAnne Fabric) and found a material that is light and weather sealed. It is black on one side and light grey on the other and weighs next to nothing. I bought 3 yards for $20 and some change and I am pretty sure it will do well in the field.
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eeahoo/camera.html turns out it is Edward not Earl, sorry. I'll see about some pictures of what I'm talking about with my interpretation later.
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eeahoo/page3/64.jpg
http://home.earthlink.net/%7Eeahoo/page3/47.jpg
The best pic of the springs is #52, I think. this is a 4x5 camera and things don't always scale up linearly...ex an 8x10 is not 2x as big it is 8x as big 2x2x2=8 and making springs 2x as big may not be enough...
Thank you! I'll study these more - very interesting.
No major updates to the camera since the steel springs I bought were too thin (listing error). Returned it and found another set of steel springs that hopefully are the right thickness. While I am still waiting to add the spring mechanism, my elastic back is doing just fine as you can see in this image I took of my sister and her husband yesterday.
She wanted to see the camera which turned into - can you take a photo for us. Nothing fancy here, just a quick family snap.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/ULF/v700%20KALSICAM%2011x14%20Anoop%20Harpreet%20-%20SALL%20-%20II%20850px.jpg
MAubrey
11-Jan-2016, 21:04
That's a beautiful photograph--great couple!
I don't know if I've seen seen such smooth blur on a wide angle lens! But I suppose that's what ULF get you!
Is this x-ray film or something else?
That's a beautiful photograph--great couple!
I don't know if I've seen seen such smooth blur on a wide angle lens! But I suppose that's what ULF get you!
Is this x-ray film or something else?
Thank you!
The blur is indeed very smooth and I shot it at F8 which was just a tad stopped down from the F6.8 max. This was shot on HP5 which I developed in HC110-B for 6 minutes.
Thank you Randy for keeping me motivated to find a solution for the back spring. I should have listened to Vinny all along because the feeler gauge (.034") works extremely well. For anyone that works with it in the future, just keep in mind that you'll need high quality drills because this material is super tough to work with. I broke two drills on this today.
Here is the new back along with the ground glass protector. The back also has new glass ground glass that I worked on last weekend. Followed the "DIY" thread posted here.
Super excited about the back because it works and looks extremely well.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160114_234045.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160114_233522.jpg
Re-purposed the elastic cord holder to now be the rotating clip that secures the ground glass protector. I even managed to add fancy graphics with tape and permanent marker - ha!
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160114_225248.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160114_225220.jpg
Close up of the spring hardware. Only one side of the spring is secured to the back. The other side is held in place with the tension of the spring.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160115_000420.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160114_225225.jpg
Pali
case-ie
15-Jan-2016, 05:54
Congratulations on this build, looks perfect to me!
Did you mention the weight somewhere?
And a very nice picture of your sister and husband, with great bokeh,
If you get that with a Symmar I start looking for one.
Very nice work, Pali K. Did you machine the end of the threaded rod to accept knurled knob, or did you buy it like that? I haven't been able to find any rods like that. I've been meaning to fix my 14x17...
When I was building mine, I searched high a low for a source as well. I wanted stainless left-hand screws like Chamonix uses. No luck. These guys sell them in right hand though:http://roton.com/torqspline-screws-nav.aspx?line=Torqspline
Tin Can
15-Jan-2016, 09:09
Nice work. I knew you could make it great.
Feeler gauge is hard to drill. :)
Congratulations on this build, looks perfect to me!
Did you mention the weight somewhere?
And a very nice picture of your sister and husband, with great bokeh,
If you get that with a Symmar I start looking for one.
Thank you! Yes, the camera weighs 26.4 pounds according to my home weighing machine. Symmar-S is really a beautiful lens. I love mine on 8x10 and excited that it even does well on 11x 14.
Nice work. I knew you could make it great.
Feeler gauge is hard to drill. :)
Thanks Randy :)
Fr. Mark
15-Jan-2016, 22:04
Looks better than bungee cord and will not need replacing like elastics would. Good job!
Completely agree Mark. Thank you!
Here is another one from today. Looks like I'll need to re-learn my scanning methods for 11x14 since my Epson doesn't like to give me consistent scans for each of the 4 chunks that I need to scan this size.
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1686/24320031972_99bfe2c516_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/D45wd5)
Still [11x14 Film] (https://flic.kr/p/D45wd5) by Pali K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/), on Flickr
700 DPI @ 50% - 11x14 film is unreal :)
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/Scans/ULF/v700%20KALSICAM%2011x14%20Jan%20Still%20Table%20-%20SALL%20-%20Crop%20II%20FR.jpg
MAubrey
16-Jan-2016, 21:39
That's something I was going to ask: how you were scanning. That detail is beautiful--and 700DPI is puny. Incredible.
I'm so excited to finish mine when I finally get a few free weekends!
That's something I was going to ask: how you were scanning. That detail is beautiful--and 700DPI is puny. Incredible.
I'm so excited to finish mine when I finally get a few free weekends!
Good luck! You'll really enjoy it when you work on yours and let me know if you have any questions on my build to help you with yours.
Fr. Mark
17-Jan-2016, 18:21
Scan? Why go to all that bother when you can contact print? Slightly kidding.
Alternatively, depending on what you want to do with with the scans, I've seen a number of people make a serious case for getting a good macro lens on a DSLR and stitching together those photos of the negative on a light table instead of a scanner. This appeals to me because I would have a second reason for getting a good macro lens.
MAubrey
17-Jan-2016, 19:09
Scan? Why go to all that bother when you can contact print? Slightly kidding.
No, that's a point totally worth saying. And I have every intention of contact printing--I'm guessing that Pali is, too. If all I wanted to do was scan, I'd probably stick to 4x5! There's already more than enough resolution there for superb scans.
Still, contact prints are difficult to share and discuss here.
Fr. Mark
18-Jan-2016, 19:52
Scanning seems like overkill for sharing here unless you are going to scan for some other reason. A phone camera gives more pixels than we can use here, I think.
But, Inwant fewer electronic gadgets in my workflow than more. Y'all may be different.
Mark - I completely agree with your points but I do enjoy getting decent scans to share here and on social media. If it makes you feel any better, I do spend equal if not more time in the darkroom prints than my digital workflow and most of my images that get framed are the ones that have been printed in the darkroom :)
11x14 is primarily a contact printing camera but I do want to share my excitement with you guys too. Hah.
Pali
Fr. Mark
21-Jan-2016, 17:42
For those folks thinking lenses for this and larger formats must cost a ton, they might not. I stuck a 1 diopter (1000mm) focal length close up lens in a window today and more/less blocked out the rest of the window with towels. It formed a huge image on a whiteboard I used as a focusing plane. It covered something like 2x3 feet so there is enough coverage for way bigger film than 11x14. Nb lens wide open was about f22---it's designed to fit 49mm filter threads. If you need faster lenses for wet plate or dags see reinvented equipment site.
Thanks for pointing that Mark. It's good to know. I have been using my primary 8x10 lens (Symmar-S 360 f6.8) which also covers this format. Very well at portrait distance and fairly well at infinity.
I did however picked up a Nikkor 450 F9 thay just arrived today with primary goal to use it with this camera for both 11x 14 and 14x17 format.
Also restocked 16x20 bw paper so I can start contact printing my negatives. Wish it arrives before major storm but I know that the storm will likely delay the delivery until next week.
Finally made some contact prints last night - love the results.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/12596787_10153970973389668_1800259095_o.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/12631089_10153971012954668_482557086_o.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/12637319_10153971086144668_681035977_o.jpg
I also picked up a Nikkor 450MM for the camera. I think I can modify the camera slightly so the lens can fold with the camera. Will post pictures of this when I have it ready.
Pali
Since you have metal that sits higher than the wood on the camera back, I recommend putting your ground glass protector away from the glass instead of what looks to be directly on top of it. Polycarbonate flexes and will break the glass if something contacts it hard enough. Airspace would prevent that.
Vinny, I have foam spacers between the protector and the ground glass to give some breathing room (about 1/4 inch) for just the concern you mentioned.
Can you show how you switch from portrait to landscape ? I don't get it how that's done from your fotos - thanks a lot !
Lars
Alan9940
6-Feb-2016, 15:35
Thinking about attempting an 11x14 camera build myself. I believe I read--perhaps in this thread or one of the other camera build threads--that it's a good idea to buy a film holder, and then build the back assembly around it. Did I dream this up or would this be a reasonable plan? If yes, would a Chamonix holder be a reasonable choice? Should I look for something on eBay? Somewhere else?
Thanks!
Jim Fitzgerald
6-Feb-2016, 16:56
Alan, a very good question. If you use the Chamonix holder you will be tied into their dedicated size holder. If I am correct the other holders are larger. I think it is a must to have your holder and build the camera around the back. I always start with a holder and build the back first.
Alan, a very good question. If you use the Chamonix holder you will be tied into their dedicated size holder.
Sidebar: I have an 11x14 Chamonix and use 6 surplus "Fidelity MEDICAL CASSETTE" 11x14 X-Ray film holders without any problems. Would love to replace them with Chamonix holders but 6 times $585 per holder = $3,510.00.
For my Whole Plate Chamonix I just went ahead and purchased Chamonix holders. Had a small collection of old wooden Whole Plate holders but not one of them fit in the Chamonix.
Greg
Jim Fitzgerald
6-Feb-2016, 17:23
Greg, thanks for the confirmation. I must have been thinking that the 14 x 17 holders are different. Yes the holders are expensive but are some of the best I have seen. If you can find some fidelity the will work fine and save you some bucks.
Just wow
Lars
Thank you Lars!
Can you show how you switch from portrait to landscape ? I don't get it how that's done from your fotos - thanks a lot !
Lars
Yes absolutely. It'll be easier for me to show you how it works so take a look at these pictures that show the rotation process.
1. Back in portrait position.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160206_171359.jpg
2. Clamps (x4) that hold the back in place.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160206_171410.jpg
3. Removing the back from the back standard.
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160206_171444.jpg
Back Removed: http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160206_171506.jpg
4. Lock the back in landscape position. Done!
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/20160206_173832.jpg
Hope this helps.
Thinking about attempting an 11x14 camera build myself. I believe I read--perhaps in this thread or one of the other camera build threads--that it's a good idea to buy a film holder, and then build the back assembly around it. Did I dream this up or would this be a reasonable plan? If yes, would a Chamonix holder be a reasonable choice? Should I look for something on eBay? Somewhere else?
Thanks!
Alan, I don't have a chamonix holder but thankfully Jim already commented on this. I can tell you that mine are standard holders that do look larger (in length) than Chamonix versions based on the pictures. And yes, I would support the argument that you should invest in a holder before starting the build for the back. I don't think I could have started the back without having the holder first since the measurements have to extremely precise.
Took some pictures for my website after giving the wood a coating of bees wax. This is the final product minus the red anodized coating for the aluminum which I am holding because it takes 2-3 weeks end-to-end. I can't really give up the camera for this much time just yet. Hah!
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1425.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1430.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1402.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1400.jpg
Really enjoying the camera so far.
Pali
Thanks a lot for the clarifying pictures. I saw the clamps on earlier posts, but did't recognize their purpose.
Lars
Alan9940
7-Feb-2016, 12:43
Does anyone have any experience with S&S Film Holders? They seem pretty reasonably priced when compared to other options.
Thanks!
Jim Fitzgerald
7-Feb-2016, 13:31
Does anyone have any experience with S&S Film Holders? They seem pretty reasonably priced when compared to other options.
Thanks!
Alan, I use four S&S holders but for my 14 x 17. They are good.
Alan9940
7-Feb-2016, 13:40
Alan, I use four S&S holders but for my 14 x 17. They are good.
Thanks, Jim. Appreciate the feedback.
Lachlan 717
7-Feb-2016, 15:46
Alan, I use four S&S holders but for my 14 x 17. They are good.
Same for my 7x17".
Red!
Randy - it's red!
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/20160207_193951.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/20160211_195259.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1452.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1456.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1451.jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Final/_MG_1472.jpg
Now, I really need to start making photos with this.
Pali
Tin Can
11-Feb-2016, 22:43
Wow you got the anodizing done quickly.
Looks really nice!
Pali, that's a very nice red, looks great!
Alan, I have S&s holders in walnut. They're very well made, tight tolerance, I checked them with a Lufkin depth gauge.
Thanks Randy and Jeff. I called around for local companies (there are many in Baltimore) and one told me they could do it in a week. Dropped it off and the called me back two days later that it was done.
Looking forward to putting it to good use soon.
barnacle
12-Feb-2016, 06:55
That's really rather sexy, Pali!
Neil
In one of the first comments, someone questioned the stability of the support for the back.
Any conclusion now that the camera is ready?
Lars
Thank you Neil!
Lars, good question. I ended up going with a 1.5" square wood material for the feet that support the back which is double the material shown in the original blueprints. With it I can tell you that this thing feels solid even with full extension. I have zero concerns about this cameras stability. I actually think that I could have done with significantly less material in some places to reduce weight.
Pali
https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1569/25641949650_163bacce02_k.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/F4TGhb)
Flowers Still on Film (https://flic.kr/p/F4TGhb) by Pali K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/), on Flickr
11x14 HP5+ | Nikkor 450mm F9 at F22 | HC110 B | Epson V700 Scan
Fr. Mark
20-Mar-2016, 20:45
Did you scan several sections and stitch or is this a crop of the image?
Either way, beautiful!
Did you scan several sections and stitch or is this a crop of the image?
Either way, beautiful!
Thank you Fr. Mark! Scanning all of my 11x14 negatives using Epson V700 in 4 sections. I use the photomerge feature in Photoshop (all auto) to quickly merge the sections into a single negative file.
Pali
warmtone
21-Mar-2016, 03:07
Thank you Fr. Mark! Scanning all of my 11x14 negatives using Epson V700 in 4 sections. I use the photomerge feature in Photoshop (all auto) to quickly merge the sections into a single negative file.
Pali
Hi, I have just come across this thread tonight and wanted to add my congratulations to you in building such an impressive 11x14 camera - no mean feat.
Secondly, thanks for sharing the journey as it will inspire others to have a go.
I find the above still life photograph both technically excellent and aesthetically very pleasing. It quietly sends the message there is "no substitute for cc's"
It seems to have a unique signature that "superior" digital cameras cannot emulate.
I am not a purist and pleased to see good use of both large format analogue and digital processes to deliver a fine result.
In an odd sort of way the digital world (internet and this site) is enhancing the value of analogue photography for those who don't follow the crowd.
I have no doubt the print "sings" and the countless hours that have gone into camera construction pale into insignificance.
Keep up the good work!
Hi, I have just come across this thread tonight and wanted to add my congratulations to you in building such an impressive 11x14 camera - no mean feat.
Secondly, thanks for sharing the journey as it will inspire others to have a go.
I find the above still life photograph both technically excellent and aesthetically very pleasing. It quietly sends the message there is "no substitute for cc's"
It seems to have a unique signature that "superior" digital cameras cannot emulate.
I am not a purist and pleased to see good use of both large format analogue and digital processes to deliver a fine result.
In an odd sort of way the digital world (internet and this site) is enhancing the value of analogue photography for those who don't follow the crowd.
I have no doubt the print "sings" and the countless hours that have gone into camera construction pale into insignificance.
Keep up the good work!
Thank you for such nice words warmtone. I really appreciate it!
I am very much like you when it comes to understanding the value for both the digital and analog mediums and use both frequently. I do however find that my heart lies with film most days. As you have noticed, there is an element of simplicity and pureness that comes with the analog process. The recent flower image actually started as a digital only setup but after trying for a few minutes, I just didn't feel satisfied with the results (thanks to instant previews of my results on digital). I had a sheet already loaded in the 11x14 setup and decided to shoot and compare the results after the fact. I am posting links to the two digital (from a total of 5 I took) that I like best for comparison.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/25897090816/in/datetaken-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/25802229202/in/datetaken-public/
Regards,
Pali
warmtone
11-Apr-2016, 04:34
For me the large format image speaks to the heart with a an almost uncanny "presence". The image illustrates why large format film photography can be such a joy when the planets align.
The digital colour images are also "nice" but somehow do not command the same attention.... but to be fair the comparison should be made in B&W.
I am sure Lightroom experts will say the digital image can be made to look the same with some careful adjustments?
I am not so sure.
I would say the ULF analogue image will always carry a different signature that is created by the contributions from the lens, film, developer combination and the unique way light interacts with film.
And this is why many photographers are returning to large format film.
Incidentally which film developer combination are you using?
I look forward to seeing more images from this beast!
Thank you again Warmtone! All of these images were shot on HP5 developed in HC110-B.
So I finally got a bag that fits this monster and am hoping to take it out for a test run this weekend. Kept looking for an ideal bag and somehow stumbled into audio mixer bags that seem to come in a variety of sizes. I was able to find a size that is huge and fits my camera very nicely. Based on just look and feel of it, it seems strong enough to support the weight of the camera along with a lens, holder, and accessories. The bag I went with is Gator G-MIXERBAG with the dimension of 25" x 19" x 8" reasonably priced at just $79.99.
BHP Link Here (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1126498-REG/gator_cases_g_mixerbag_2519_padded_nylon_mixer_equipment.html)
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Bag/ULF%2025x19x8%20Bag%20(1).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Bag/ULF%2025x19x8%20Bag%20(2).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Bag/ULF%2025x19x8%20Bag%20(3).jpg
http://www.netsoft2k.com/Docs/Media/Pictures/ULF/Bag/ULF%2025x19x8%20Bag%20(5).jpg
Excited to finally take the camera for an outdoor photo soon. As always, will post pictures after the weekend : )
Pali
Tin Can
23-Apr-2016, 17:20
Nice bag Pali and of course nice camera.
I think I better make sure my 11x14 fits in there!
Thanks, I needed a constraint.
I added the bag to my B&H wish list...
Nice bag Pali and of course nice camera.
I think I better make sure my 11x14 fits in there!
Thanks, I needed a constraint.
I added the bag to my B&H wish list...
Wonderful Randy! I am sure you'll like the bag when your camera is ready :)
I absolutely love using this camera and still can't believe that I pulled it off. After months of use, I am amazed about how smooth the movements are and how well it locks in place. Here is my selfie with the camera!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8664/28680532600_7c28f6dade_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/KGpe8o)
Self Portrait on ULF Film (https://flic.kr/p/KGpe8o) by Pali K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/), on Flickr
Custom 11x14 Camera
HP5 in HC110-B
Eversmart Pro Scan
Pali
Tin Can
13-Aug-2016, 20:31
Good one!
Hi Pali,
Your camera looks amazing! I remember seeing this on a blog post somewhere before, but it's really awesome to read this thread and the making of.
I made a simple 8x10 (https://medium.com/@rosshj/my-diy-8-10-wet-plate-camera-37a434a35fa) about a year and a half ago and now I'm starting to build a 24x24. My first ULF camera. I'm wondering if you could share some pointers as I build it out? One of the first questions I have it how did you attach the bellows to the front and rear standard and is it removable?
Cheers,
Ross
Hi Pali,
Your camera looks amazing! I remember seeing this on a blog post somewhere before, but it's really awesome to read this thread and the making of.
I made a simple 8x10 (https://medium.com/@rosshj/my-diy-8-10-wet-plate-camera-37a434a35fa) about a year and a half ago and now I'm starting to build a 24x24. My first ULF camera. I'm wondering if you could share some pointers as I build it out? One of the first questions I have it how did you attach the bellows to the front and rear standard and is it removable?
Cheers,
Ross
Thank you Ross!
Yes, the bellows are removable. They were glued on to thin frames that were screwed onto the front and back standards. I will try to look for my pictures and see if I have any that show details of how I did this. BTW, your 8x10 and the wet plate photos are stunning!
Pali
Luis-F-S
17-Feb-2018, 18:57
Nice bag Pali and of course nice camera.
I think I better make sure my 11x14 fits in there!
Thanks, I needed a constraint.
I added the bag to my B&H wish list...
I've got one of the Gator bags for both my V11 and my V8's. I can fil the camera, dark cloth, and a lens and meter. They're great for the price. L
Thank you Ross!
Yes, the bellows are removable. They were glued on to thin frames that were screwed onto the front and back standards. I will try to look for my pictures and see if I have any that show details of how I did this. BTW, your 8x10 and the wet plate photos are stunning!
Pali
Thanks Pali!
I think I'm going to get the bellows made this time, it was insane making one last time and that was only for a 8x10. I heard custom custombellows.co.uk do a good job. I'm going to see if they can add plates to the end to make life easier in terms of attaching/detaching it. If you can post any photos, that would be great!
I also want to say thank you to not only you Pali but the others who have commented on this thread—it's an amazing resource of great information for making cameras 🙏
R.
Noticed that I didn't post some of the newer photos made with this camera. Here are two additional flower photos shot on this camera. I really need to use this camera more than just once or twice a year.
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/605/33320571831_f0071148fc_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/SLqD8M)
Flowers on 11x14 Film (https://flic.kr/p/SLqD8M) by Pali K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/), on Flickr
https://farm1.staticflickr.com/907/42119446611_da7a3ea83c_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/27aXb4n)
Roses Still on 11x14 Film (https://flic.kr/p/27aXb4n) by Pali K (https://www.flickr.com/photos/palikalsi/), on Flickr
Kalsi 11x14 | Nikkor 450mm f9 | Illford HP5+
JOBO CPP2 | HC110-B
Eversmart Supreme Scanner
Pali
I really need to use this camera more than just once or twice a year. Pali
Indeed, as these are stunning.
I've just read this thread from start to finish. Your camera is spectacular and the photos you're making with it are simply gorgeous.
I think I'm officially a bona fide camera nerd because that was a more exciting read than any Tom Clancy novel I've read and I was infinitely happier by the end, too!
Thank you for taking us along for the ride!
I've just read this thread from start to finish. Your camera is spectacular and the photos you're making with it are simply gorgeous.
I think I'm officially a bona fide camera nerd because that was a more exciting read than any Tom Clancy novel I've read and I was infinitely happier by the end, too!
Thank you for taking us along for the ride!
Thank you for the kind words Molli! I am glad to hear that you enjoyed the thread and the photos.
Pali
Took the beast out to strech it's arms and legs during the qurantine :)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49875685828_66541ab4f8_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2iZkVKJ)
KalsiCAM 11x14 | Nikkor-M 450MM | Illford HP5+
JOBO CPP2 | Adox Rodinal 1+25
Eversmart Supreme Scanner
Pali
Peter De Smidt
9-May-2020, 18:03
Looking good, Pali.
Ron (Netherlands)
10-May-2020, 11:33
Great craftsmanship, the camera and the photos! .....just read the whole thread :-)
Great craftsmanship, the camera and the photos! .....just read the whole thread :-)
Thank you Ron! It’s a pure joy to use.
I also just ordered some Portra 400 and can’t wait to shoot ULF color.
Pali
Johnluis
20-Aug-2020, 06:51
I am looking for these plans
Thanks
Holding a fresh batch of a unicorn! 11x14 Portra 400
208167
Tin Can
30-Sep-2020, 13:52
Cool!
brokenshutter
24-Nov-2020, 09:26
Holding a fresh batch of a unicorn! 11x14 Portra 400
208167
Looking forward to the pictures!!
Andrew O'Neill
24-Nov-2020, 14:26
I don't think I ever saw a photo of the finished camera, Pali K. I looked through this long thread and couldn't find one...
Sorry folks but my website host was being annoying with continued hidden charges and I ended up canceling everything with them. I’ll be setting up a new site for my stuff and will relink everything soon.
In the meantime, here is the final camera from my Flickr site :)
https://live.staticflickr.com/1709/24851970792_17f7e88cfc_h.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/DS5R63)
What a beauty. Nice work.
Peter De Smidt
27-Nov-2020, 08:50
Looks terrific, Pali!
John Layton
28-Nov-2020, 18:47
What a nice project...love the red anodizing! And those double-articulated rear struts - very cool!
barryjyoung
3-Dec-2020, 10:39
Hi vinny:
I went to your website, but did not see anything related to cameramaking. Love the Wood Mizer portable sawmill, I want one, and the spalted maple (?) made my mouth water. Did you make a 11x14 camera? I know it has been a long time since you posted.
Years of waiting and I can’t believe this unicorn is here! Time to take the big toy out.
Fresh E100 in 11x14
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220624/b9cce2df92e56eb96ed209047310b1f9.jpg
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