Purchasing a 4x5 Speed Graphic

[VulpesVulpesVulpes]

First of all, hello! I'm a bit new here so sincere apologies if I've posed this question in the wrong place.

I recently decided I wanted to try my hand at large format, and took a shining to the Speed Graphic and how approachable it seemed for a beginner.
Thus far in my stupidity, I have bought two from eBay (in quick succession) which a kind user on Flickr pointed out have been incorrectly listed as 4x5, and are in fact one of the smaller models.

My question is, what is a reliable way to gauge from photos alone which model you're looking at? Given how similar they can appear.

(Before purchasing i read and re-read the graflex faq many times but still fell for the eBay trap)
(Will also add that I'm in the u.k and bought from the u.s so at this time neither have arrived yet)

Thanks for any responses!

[jp]

Pretty much everything is the same proportions but the rangefinder looks a little big on the smaller models.
If someone incorrectly listed it as 4x5, I'd return it. Speed graphics are fun, but 4x5 film is most available sheet film size, so that's most useful.

[VulpesVulpesVulpes]

I think I may have to return it when it arrives. I've heard the smaller sizes without a graflok back are especially useless to me.
any chance I could get a second opinion on the one I've bought? On the off chance it is a 4x5.

http://r.ebay.com/pCBCx8

[Old-N-Feeble]

FWIW, I don't see anything incorrect in the item description. The seller knows nothing about vintage Graflex cameras but he/she didn't try to hide anything nor did they describe things poorly.

The above stated, it has a spring back, not Graflok. That's fine if you don't need it. The 35mm Tessar lens is utterly useless... but the seller clearly described it so, again, they didn't try to hide anything. If I was the buyer and decided this isn't the camera for me then I'd politely ask the seller to accept a return and I would pay shipping both ways.

[Tim Meisburger]

It looks like a 4x5. The lens is incorrectly listed as 3.5cm, but that is because most of the "1" is worn off. The lens is actually 13.5cm (135mm), which is correct for 4x5, and everything else looks proportionally correct. So, you should be fine.

[DrTang]

the seller DID say it was 4x5 several times..although..with the 135 lens..it probably is

the 3x4's came with a 127..right?

so if it does turn out to be 3x4..I'd return it

[John Kasaian]

It's an Anniversary model. Take a look at www.graflex.org for info re your new camera.

[Kevin Crisp]

The lens is incorrectly stated to be an Ektar, but there is nothing wrong with the Optar.

[Jim Jones]

The camera pictured is indeed a 4x5 Anniversary model Speed Graphic, made between 1940 and 1946. There are at least two ways to distinguish between the 3x4 and the 4x5 in good photos. In the lower left of the first front-view picture, look at the focusing lock lever just to the right of the focusing knob. It is mounted on the raised focusing rail guide. The lower area between that guide and the focusing knob is slightly narrower than the guide in a 3x4, and slightly wider than the guide in the 4x5. With experience one can tell by comparing the size of the rangefinder to the body as JP says. Many sellers unfamiliar with Speed Graphics can't tell these differences, nor between the Anniversary and other models of Speed Graphics.

A first-time user of Speed Graphics will find Graphic Graflex Photography by Morgan & Morgan, 1st through 7th editions, useful. These cover the Anniversary model. Later editions also cover the Pacemaker series and other Graphic products.

[Louis Pacilla]

One thing I noticed is the tension knob seems to be missing on this Speed Graphic and I would want the focal plain shutter to work sometimes non camera folks have no way to tell that and many times when they talk of shutter working they mean the lens shutter not the FP shutter.

If you are not worried about the FP shutter then I would return this one even if it was a 4x5 and look for a nice Crown Graphic as you may as well have a lighter camera then one that does not work in the true sense of the word.which is a working focal plain shutter use w/ interesting barrel optics and hand holding w/ the Tessar @ faster shutter speeds then the lens shutter provides.

[Louis Pacilla]

The lens is incorrectly stated to be an Ektar, but there is nothing wrong with the Optar.


Hey Kevin

I think you made the same mistake I did. The 1st time I clicked on the eBay link the OP provided Somehow I wound up w/ a Pacemaker Graphic/Opatr lens w/ Graflock & a BIN price of $399. The OP actually bought a Anniversary Graphic w/ a Tessar lens & a spring Grflock back.

When I went back a second time (because like you I saw an Optar on a Pacemaker & Graflock back then I checked again and found the correct camera on discussion.

[BrianShaw]

The camera pictured is indeed a 4x5 Anniversary model Speed Graphic, made between 1940 and 1946. ...

probably closer to 1941. In 1940 the speed plate was on top.

[EdSawyer]

As mentioned, it's 4x5. but, I'd return it anyway and get a better one: Pacemaker with a graflok back, in better condition should only be in the $350-500 range. Ultimately a better choice than a beat up, dirty, older one with the less-desirable back.

[VulpesVulpesVulpes]

Thank you so much for all your replies; it's been extremely useful reading through as well as having it correctly identified.
It's been mentioned that the tension knob is apparently missing. I presume this means I won't have access to the focal plane shutter?
Is this easily remedied? as the fp shutter was the main draw for me of the Speed Graphic.

$350-500 is slightly out of my price range at the moment, so maybe it's a sensible idea for me to return it and wait until I can get a better condition Pacemaker, if it's true that the one I bought has no redeeming qualities.

[Old-N-Feeble]

It looks like a 4x5. The lens is incorrectly listed as 3.5cm, but that is because most of the "1" is worn off. The lens is actually 13.5cm (135mm), which is correct for 4x5, and everything else looks proportionally correct. So, you should be fine.

Ha ha... you're right. I missed that. :)

[BrianShaw]

Thank you so much for all your replies; it's been extremely useful reading through as well as having it correctly identified.
It's been mentioned that the tension knob is apparently missing. I presume this means I won't have access to the focal plane shutter?
Is this easily remedied? as the fp shutter was the main draw for me of the Speed Graphic.

$350-500 is slightly out of my price range at the moment, so maybe it's a sensible idea for me to return it and wait until I can get a better condition Pacemaker, if it's true that the one I bought has no redeeming qualities.

You may want to double-check that upon receipt. It looks present to me. Bent a bit but that may not affect its operation. I would suspect from the looks of the FP shutter axles that it may need servicing... which is quite normal.

If you ever need a Graflok back swapping the spring back for a Graflok is a very easy thing to do. But if all you are using are regular DDS then the spring back will be fine.

Saying this has no redeeming qualities is perhaps a bit of a stretch. It may have some challenges and not be 100% ideal, but it looks complete and usable to me.

[Louis Pacilla]

You may want to double-check that upon receipt. It looks present to me. Bent a bit but that may not affect its operation. I would suspect from the looks of the FP shutter axles that it may need servicing... which is quite normal.


YEP. Brian is correct the tension knob is present (sorry I missed that) so if the FP shutter is in the body and the other parts present then at worst you can do or have a CLA done & any repairs on curtain that may be needed. Hopefully it needs little to no work but in experience it probably will need some attention.

Hope it works out but & in NO way does this/your Anniversary have no redeeming qualities. It has plenty.

[Roboflick]

There is a seller I bought mine from who i recommend. PM me and i"ll share the details with you if you'd like.

[jp]

Looks like a great camera. I like those better than the Pacemakers. More shutter speed options, bigger lensboard (such as if you want an AE), you can build your own lensboards if you have a tablesaw. I use a pre-anniversary (older) variant for these reasons. You can add a graflock back later if you want. That looks like a 4x5. Graflock is only super important if you want to shoot instant film or use a roll film back.

[BrianShaw]

Looks like a great camera. I like those better than the Pacemakers. More shutter speed options, bigger lensboard (such as if you want an AE), you can build your own lensboards if you have a tablesaw. I use a pre-anniversary (older) variant for these reasons. You can add a graflock back later if you want. That looks like a 4x5. Graflock is only super important if you want to shoot instant film or use a roll film back.

Me too. I like anniversary graphic better than my supergraphic most of the time too. But I build lens boards with hand tools using 1/8" modeling plywood (two pieces glued). Not counting the time for the paint to dry it takes about 20 minutes.

[Oren Grad]

...bigger lensboard (such as if you want an AE)...

More comfortable fit for a universal iris clamp, too, which goes nicely with the focal plane shutter if one wants to play with lenses in barrel.

[VulpesVulpesVulpes]

Looks like a great camera. I like those better than the Pacemakers. More shutter speed options, bigger lensboard (such as if you want an AE), you can build your own lensboards if you have a tablesaw. I use a pre-anniversary (older) variant for these reasons. You can add a graflock back later if you want. That looks like a 4x5. Graflock is only super important if you want to shoot instant film or use a roll film back.

That's excellent! the AE prices are pretty crazy at the moment so I may settle for trying an old Buhl projection lens I've had lying around for a while, if I can figure out how to mount it onto a lens board.
If I manage to get hold of a graflock back down the line, what are the options in terms of instant films and polaroid backs? is there a recommended size I should look for?

[BrianShaw]

Think about Graflok back more for roll film back than instant. There isn't much out there for instant film anymore.

[Tim Meisburger]

Forget the Graflok back. If you want to shoot roll film use your medium format cameras, or get a Calumet Rollfilm back that will slide under a springback.

Easiest way to mount a projection lens with no flange is to cut the hole tight, wrap tape around the middle of the lens, slide the lens in and then wrap tape on the back, or use a hose clamp. It may not look to nice, but it will work, and thats all you want to get started.

[jp]

And if you want to mount numerous lenses with flanges, get a couple packs of different size small brass screws on ebay or amazon so you don't have to run to the hardware store for small screws anytime you make another lensboard to mount a lens.
If the lens isn't heavy and has no flange, hot glue works too, so long as you light-tight it with flocking or tape after.
I don't bother with roll film on these cameras. If I want to shoot rollfilm, I have a rolleiflex and yashica that are good at that.

[AtlantaTerry]

I have bought two from eBay (in quick succession) which a kind user on Flickr pointed out have been incorrectly listed as 4x5, and are in fact one of the smaller models.


Did you and I discuss this camera on Flickr? I believe I opined that some eBay sellers did not know of a new measuring invention called "a ruler".