PDA

View Full Version : Some things I'd like to see made.



Drew Bedo
11-Aug-2015, 08:31
I own two vintage/antique LF field cameras; Glowing brass and lusterus woods as nice as fine furnature . . .I like them.

However: I'd like to see a few things mad with 21st Century design , materials and methods.

How about a Holga-style P&S in 4x5, 8x10 . . .ULF too maybe. Later on: Simple to start. I'd be willing to seal it up with gaffer;s tape and do some shimming in early models. These early models followed by more complex ones with modular, swappable parts later. Hopefully, the Wanderlust TravelWide will evolve this path towards new products.

What about a modern film handling system? The Mido system from the 1980s comes to mind (it didn't work that well then and diew early). A redesign with new materials and mfg process.

Another direction would be a mostly plastic Grafmatic-typefilm magazine. Light weight,light-tight and low cost (I hope!).


What would you like to see?

Bob Salomon
11-Aug-2015, 09:06
Keeping in mind that this would be for a very small and shrinking market.

Vaughn
11-Aug-2015, 09:14
How about instead of the GG, it was actually a digital display (that was still WYSIWYG), and would still be showing the scene when you have the film holder in place! Runs on a single AA battery and/or solar cell, and weighs less than the glass it replaces.

Might as well have a switch on it that can invert the image (and/or reverses it)...for those of us who like to have the image upside down!

DrTang
11-Aug-2015, 09:22
an 8x10 reflex camera for studio use

(yeah..I know there were a couple made..but I don't have one)

Michael Graves
11-Aug-2015, 09:39
I'd like an application that runs on a tablet or smart phone that allows you to input all of the information about a particular exposure or shoot, and then when you get home downloads it to a SQL compatible database. Preferably one that is dictation friendly.

Tim Meisburger
11-Aug-2015, 10:07
I'm not sure I like it, but digital film. Similar to Vaughn's idea above (which probably would be difficult because the sensor would block the film). A holder-size apparatus (any holder size) with a sensor on one side and screen on the other. This could be used in any existing camera by merely removing the ground glass. Because the shutter would be in the holder, any lens (barrel or in-shutter) could be used easily. This provides color, black and white, a right-side-up image, unlimited images, and the ability to see what you are shooting at the moment you release the shutter. This will happen, I'm sure.

For the other ideas, and regarding Bob's comment, yes, it is a small market, but the ability to print/manufacture one-offs from a digital file already exists, and the capability of this technology is likely to increase while the cost decreases, so twenty years from now you could order a new plastic Grafmatic and it would be produced on demand.

cikaziva
11-Aug-2015, 10:50
Gowland did pocket 4x5 monarail back in the days. it would be nice to use todays methods to make pocket 8x10 monorail. one simple CF rod with tow standards only axsial tilts and rise fall. simple light and easy to tare down and pack in a small bag...

also new Carbon Fiber 8x10 film back would be grate :)

jp
11-Aug-2015, 11:00
New materials can integrate nicely with old. Here's a carbon fiber lensboard on my speed:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8669974874/in/photolist-ed8Ttq

I'd like Michael Grave's app but for the darkroom.

The holga LF thing would be tough as focusing is more precise with LF than MF. If you want soft photos with LF, there's a lot of nice options way better than a holga. If you want sharp photos, there are many options way better than a holga.

IanG
11-Aug-2015, 11:58
I'd like an application that runs on a tablet or smart phone that allows you to input all of the information about a particular exposure or shoot, and then when you get home downloads it to a SQL compatible database. Preferably one that is dictation friendly.

I think that's possible now with a rigid conformity to order etc. I used Voice recognition software to write many essays and my final project while at University in the late 1990's it was remarkably good then, these days it's even better. The voice recognition on my iPad is brilliant I just rarely use it and haven't used the voice recognition built into the lst few versions of Windows either, just had to check it's still here in Windows 10 - it is.

Not sure why I didn't use voice recognition when I went back to University again, maybe it's the time needed for training the software.

Ian

Bill_1856
11-Aug-2015, 12:15
I'd like to see a Linhof Technika with interchangeable bellows, and non-integral structural parts (such as the front door, lens boards, etc) fabricated from carbon fiber to lighten and strengthen it.
It's still a great and almost unique camera.

EdSawyer
11-Aug-2015, 12:55
A modern 4x5 SLR would be great, with a focal plane shutter and the ability (somehow?) to take 90mm lenses or even shorter. I'd use the Arca Reflex SLR as a starting point, and go from there, design-wise. Add a prism finder too for right-side-up-left-right-correct viewing. I bet it could be done and kept under 10lbs if done right.

Bob Salomon
11-Aug-2015, 13:34
I'd like to see a Linhof Technika with interchangeable bellows, and non-integral structural parts (such as the front door, lens boards, etc) fabricated from carbon fiber to lighten and strengthen it.
It's still a great and almost unique camera.

Bill,

The Master Technika accepts lenses and allows full movements with lenses from 45 mm up. Why in the world would you then need a wide angle bellows with one? And, if you do, the Wista RF does have an interchangeable bellows and accepts longer beds and bellows.

jp
11-Aug-2015, 13:57
A modern 4x5 SLR would be great, with a focal plane shutter and the ability (somehow?) to take 90mm lenses or even shorter. I'd use the Arca Reflex SLR as a starting point, and go from there, design-wise. Add a prism finder too for right-side-up-left-right-correct viewing. I bet it could be done and kept under 10lbs if done right.

kevlar shutter fabric, graflock back and body made of composites (body could be super strong with a few invisible ribs built in). Graflex SLRs had the image right side up, it was just horizontally flipped like with a TLR. Polarfleece fuzz around the eyepiece in your choice of bright colors. LCD readout showing the actual measured exposure. Doubt you'd get shorter than 150mm lens on it.

I'd pay $1k, probably cost $5k like the last rollei's and people would wonder why nobody was buying when old ones are still working. The gowland aerial was a pretty light camera that would be acceptable at twice the weight if you had to add focus track, shutter, mirror, etc..

Drew Bedo
11-Aug-2015, 15:44
I'd like to see a Linhof Technika with interchangeable bellows, and non-integral structural parts (such as the front door, lens boards, etc) fabricated from carbon fiber to lighten and strengthen it.
It's still a great and almost unique camera.


Why not make the "box" part from CF as well? That is the heaviest single part I think.

Drew Bedo
11-Aug-2015, 16:02
Wow . . .What a lot of great stuff!

I like the idea of a CF Pocket Viw.

The Littman 45 Single sold for 5-8K when "new" and still go for 1,5 to 2 thousand used (lets not go off into the weeds re-hashing old drama please). Based on that, I'd like to see a 4x5 RF folder based on the classic Zies, Voightlander and AGFA cameras of the 30s.

What about a 4x5 RF based on the Mamya-7?

Bill_1856
11-Aug-2015, 16:30
Bill,

The Master Technika accepts lenses and allows full movements with lenses from 45 mm up. Why in the world would you then need a wide angle bellows with one? And, if you do, the Wista RF does have an interchangeable bellows and accepts longer beds and bellows.
They could at least make detachable the socket which holds the buggy whip.

mdarnton
11-Aug-2015, 16:32
A modern 4x5 SLR would be great, with a focal plane shutter and the ability (somehow?) to take 90mm lenses or even shorter.

A split mirror---the front/lower half drops to the floor, the back/top rises--would let the lens get pretty close to the film Didn't Bronica or someone do that in their first model?

edit: Bronica, close. Mirror that drops: https://www.flickr.com/photos/14463685@N07/4133634554

Bob Salomon
11-Aug-2015, 16:34
They could at least make detachable the socket which holds the buggy whip.

You mean the old style QR Socket with the wire release or the current QR Socket that uses a very short flexible cable release similar to the Gepe wide angle cable release extension, only much shorter?

Drew Bedo
12-Aug-2015, 09:35
How about instead of the GG, it was actually a digital display (that was still WYSIWYG), and would still be showing the scene when you have the film holder in place! Runs on a single AA battery and/or solar cell, and weighs less than the glass it replaces.

Might as well have a switch on it that can invert the image (and/or reverses it)...for those of us who like to have the image upside down!



Schneider has made a set of quality suplimentary lenses for iPhones.

OK . . .So what about a sort of "Lens Baby" type of attachment for the tablet? Could be simple and sloppy or complex and precise.

BarryS
12-Aug-2015, 10:16
How about an oversized (4" aperture) Sinar-type shutter that easily mounts to popular 8x10 cameras, and line of rear focal plane shutters that replace the old Graflex shutters?

EdSawyer
12-Aug-2015, 10:20
The Arca Swiss reflex I am overhauling now is as close to this as I have seen. It has a plastic/composite frame with aluminum/steel panels bolted on, some die-cast parts, and lightweight fabric shutter curtains.

No need for exposure/readout, that's easy to do without. Prism finder would be ideal but add a lot of weight to get full coverage. the L-R reversal is annoying but at least it's rightside up, indeed.

Price-wise it would have to be something like $5k given the low quantity/high complexity. Even a nicely overhauled working Graflex RB SuperD with a Graflok back conversion will easily bring $1500-2k.

The Arca has a really compact set of rollerblind shutter curtains and a nice, all-mechanical shutter geartrain system that does up to 1/500th and down to something like 1/2 second. I'll post pics sometime when I make a rebuild thread for it in the DIY area.

And yes, a 2-piece or folding mirror of some type would be necessary to get shorter than about 150mm lenses. I was thinking some sort of 2-piece mirror with a hinge in the middle that folds backwards somehow could make it work (short lenses clearing the mirror)

-Ed



kevlar shutter fabric, graflock back and body made of composites (body could be super strong with a few invisible ribs built in). Graflex SLRs had the image right side up, it was just horizontally flipped like with a TLR. Polarfleece fuzz around the eyepiece in your choice of bright colors. LCD readout showing the actual measured exposure. Doubt you'd get shorter than 150mm lens on it.

I'd pay $1k, probably cost $5k like the last rollei's and people would wonder why nobody was buying when old ones are still working. The gowland aerial was a pretty light camera that would be acceptable at twice the weight if you had to add focus track, shutter, mirror, etc..

Michael Graves
12-Aug-2015, 10:38
...What about a 4x5 RF based on the Mamya-7?...

THAT would be amazing. I love my Mamiya 7! I'd sell my wife's car to get a 4x5 similar to it.

EdSawyer
13-Aug-2015, 10:04
There's plenty of good rangefinder (and non-rangefinder) hand-holdable 4x5s that can take great wide-to-normal lenses like the M7 system. They will never be as small/light/integrated/elegant of course...


THAT would be amazing. I love my Mamiya 7! I'd sell my wife's car to get a 4x5 similar to it.

Sal Santamaura
13-Aug-2015, 10:25
...What about a 4x5 RF based on the Mamya-7?Only if:


Its framing accuracy is as good as the Bronica RF645's is, i.e. vastly superior to the Mamiya 7's
The matching lenses perform as well as those for the Mamiya 7 do
HARMAN releases compatible 4-inch rolls of Delta 100

:D

David A. Goldfarb
13-Aug-2015, 10:30
Gowland made the Pocket View in 8x10" and 5x7" in various incarnations in addition to the 4x5", some more minimalist and lighter in weight, some slightly heavier with more features. I've been using the 8x10" for years. The weight of the camera alone is about 6-1/2 lbs with rear tilt and swing, front tilt, swing, shift, and rise, max extension 24".

Oren Grad
13-Aug-2015, 10:43
A modern 4x5 SLR would be great, with a focal plane shutter and the ability (somehow?) to take 90mm lenses or even shorter. I'd use the Arca Reflex SLR as a starting point, and go from there, design-wise. Add a prism finder too for right-side-up-left-right-correct viewing. I bet it could be done and kept under 10lbs if done right.

Wisner showed an SLR, the Freedom 45R, that was sort of Graflex-like with comparable FL limitations, but appears to have dispensed with the focal plane shutter:

https://web.archive.org/web/20031008183210/http://wisner.com/freedom.htm

I don't know if he ever sold any.

LabRat
13-Aug-2015, 20:32
I always wondered why there has been no ultra compact LF camera with a "folded" light path inside... Where there would be one or more FS mirrors inside so that the flat "folded" camera would pop up (maybe like a SX-70) to shoot... (maybe limitations, but compact size would MATTER...)

Always wanted a camera with an LCD or other electronic shutter, that would have no vibration/sound... (And a "Packard" or FP version of this would be helpful...) A LF camera with an FP like this, and a revised auto stack loading film holder would be great in the field and the film chamber would be clean from dust...

LF reflex cameras with one of those Canon "Pellix" type mirrors would have no "mirror bounce"... Retrofocus WA lenses for these could be designed...

One thing that could (or might) be in development (or developed), (I'm not saying I like the idea) is a "hybrid" film/digital camera, where the image is picked-up through a digital system, and transfered to a film based material... So let's say, a LF camera (say 8X10) could be the size of a large laptop or tablet, transfer an image to a sheet of film, and ALSO store it in memory... (But I can just see the epic battle online (or here) about "HELL NO!!!!", "Why???", or "Why Not"???...) Seems like something that some firm like Polaroid or Fuji would consider to "marry" different product lines to sell as a system... Like 8X10 instant access film (and/or prints) + digital storage all in one... Future Shock!!!!

Steve K

dsphotog
13-Aug-2015, 21:12
1. Lightweight, compact, fast, sharp, inexpensive, large format, zoom lenses....
With variable soft focus too.

2. Something like a "Lensbaby" for LF.


3. New, inexpensive sheet film holders, Grafmatics.


4. LF Kodachrome... With a home processing kit.

John Kasaian
13-Aug-2015, 21:22
Power line filter. I could really use one of those!

Wayne
13-Aug-2015, 21:25
I'm happy with what I have, including my old Midos, and content with what I can get. I don't feel a need for new things, but it would be nice to have someone carry what I already have. I've always wanted a burro. Are those still being made? :)

RichardRitter
14-Aug-2015, 04:28
A lot of good ideas.
Coming up with the idea is the easy part. bringing it to reality is a whole different story. Plus the cost to do it and the time required to design and make the prototypes and then the production models.

On my bucket list is a 3 pound 4 x 5 I have a prototype made back in the 90's. Just ran out of funding.

Drew Bedo
14-Aug-2015, 06:35
Thanks for the reality check Richard.

My father-in-law was a successful businessman and manager in the HVAC industry for 40 plus years. He and I were discussing one of my wild ideas on day and his reality checj went something like this.
"Well many ideas are good or even creat on paper. The problem is always money."

My OP was looking for a light weight, cost-effective and simple alternative 4x5 cameras. I hoped that this and a few other ideas would be possible now due to developments in design tools, materials science and production methods. The closest thing right now is the WanderLust project.

Sure, I'd like to see a 4x5 Leica M-4 or Mamya-7, yet I know that if such a camera were commercially viable, The tempest over Polaroid conversions would have lead to a new line of real products.