Can my enlarger lens be used in a 4x5 camera

[tonyowen]

I have a Componon-S f5.6 100mm enlarging lens (s/n 12236652 - smallest aperture f45).

According to a 1987 (??) “Schneider Kreuznack Enlarging Lenses” catalogue the lens has a M32.5 mounting thread and can be fitted into a Compur 0 shutter.

I know this lens is recommended for enlarging 6x9 negatives BUT could the lens be used in a 4x5 view camera, and if so what would be its scope and limitations.

Perhaps a silly question, but if you do not ask ...........

Regards

Tony

[IanG]

It could be used as a Macro lens but it won't cover the 5x4 format at Infinity. Schneider sold Componons in shutters as macro lenses at one time.

Ian

[Drew Wiley]

Certain Componons were prized for tabletop 4x5 photography, which is of course, is a near-range application. I wouldn't use one for general shooting.

[xkaes]

Two possible problems:

Coverage. As others mentioned you might only get 4x5 coverage for close-up shots. That might be OK for your purposes.

Distance. The rear of the lens might stick out too far to screw on without bumping into the shutter / aperture blades.

[Bob Salomon]

Ÿ
Two possible problems:

Coverage. As others mentioned you might only get 4x5 coverage for close-up shots. That might be OK for your purposes.

Distance. The rear of the lens might stick out too far to screw on without bumping into the shutter / aperture blades.
Your first answer is correct. But your second isn't. When you mount an enlarger lens the correct way into a shutter you unscrew the front and rear groups from the enlarger lens barrel and screw them into the front and back of the shutter.

[Dan Fromm]

Um, the 100/5.6 Componon S' cells are direct fits in a #0 shutter.

Some years ago I tried one out, in shutter, on a 2x3 Graphic and concluded that I had much better 100 mm lenses for shooting at distance. Not surprising, considering (but I can't document this) that the lens was recommended for enlarging no more than 12x. Other people have tried theirs out and concluded it is a good normal lens for 2x3. I'm not sure why we don't all agree.

xkaes, as far as I know there's no modern standard shutter whose front threads are M39x1 like many enlarging lenses' mounting threads. The likely shutters for front-mounting are #0 (M29.5x0.5) and #1 (M40x0.75).

[IanG]

Just a correction here the normal 100mm Comonon S cells don't fit a shutter without adaptors, the rear cell fit's a Compur #00 the front cell threads are 2 or 3mm les than the front threads of a Compur #0. The older 105mm f5.6 Compon probably doesn't fit directly into a shutter, mine won't unscrew easily and as it's very clean I don't want to try, however the cells are larger than the ones in my 80mm Compon which do fit a Compur #00 and too small for a Compur #0

I don't think you're necessarily wrong though Dan I can't find the PDF file but seem to remember the either the 105mm or 100mm Componon being sold in a shutter as a Macro lens.

Ian

[Luis-F-S]

Sure buy why would you want to? It won't cover except really close. L

[IanG]

Sure buy why would you want to? It won't cover except really close. L

Because they make good Macro lenses.

Ian

[Luis-F-S]

So don't they make "Macro" lenses for LF cameras? I know I own a bunch of process lenses optimized for 1:1. L

[xkaes]

I have a lot of enlarging lenses and most don't have the capability to easily remove the rear group. And of the ones that do -- mostly of German heritage -- I would be reluctant to try. First, the front and rear threads may not be the same size, let alone the same size of a particular shutter. Perhaps more importantly, placing a shutter in-between the enlarging lens groups will add a certain amount of space that the lens was not designed for, and will create some sort of unknown optical change -- probably for the worse.



Ÿ
Your first answer is correct. But your second isn't. When you mount an enlarger lens the correct way into a shutter you unscrew the front and rear groups from the enlarger lens barrel and screw them into the front and back of the shutter.

[xkaes]

They sure do. You can check out Fuji's large format macro lenses at

www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm

Their macro lenses are the "A" series (apochromatic) and ranged from 180mm to 1200mm! They all cover 4x5 film. The 1200mm will EVEN cover two FOOT by three FOOT film -- just in case you have any laying around..



So don't they make "Macro" lenses for LF cameras? I know I own a bunch of process lenses optimized for 1:1. L

[Dan Fromm]

Just a correction here the normal 100mm Comonon S cells don't fit a shutter without adaptors, the rear cell fit's a Compur #00 the front cell threads are 2 or 3mm les than the front threads of a Compur #0. The older 105mm f5.6 Compon probably doesn't fit directly into a shutter, mine won't unscrew easily and as it's very clean I don't want to try, however the cells are larger than the ones in my 80mm Compon which do fit a Compur #00 and too small for a Compur #0

I don't think you're necessarily wrong though Dan I can't find the PDF file but seem to remember the either the 105mm or 100mm Componon being sold in a shutter as a Macro lens.

IanIan, thanks for prompting me to check my sanity. I no longer have my 100/5.6 Componon-S, do have my 105/5.6 jes' plain Componon in Schneider #105 barrel. Its cells are too small to fit a #0, are direct fits in a #00. Yes, I have the shutters too and I did the test.

[Dan Fromm]

So don't they make "Macro" lenses for LF cameras? I know I own a bunch of process lenses optimized for 1:1. L

Well, as already has been mentioned there are Fuji's process lenses in shutter. Nikon's, too, the -M lenses. Nikon and Schneider both made a range of macro lenses for 4x5 and 8x10. Nikkor AM-ED 120/5.6 and 210/5.6, for example.

There are also very specialized lenses from microscope manufacturers or camera maker's microscope divisions. Zeiss (BRD)'s Luminars; Zeiss (DDR)'s Mikrotars; Leitz' Milars, Summars (macro lenses) and Photars; Nikon's Macro Nikkors; and less well-known ones such as Reichert's very fine 100/6.3 Neupolar. All of these cover 4x5 at their recommended ranges of magnifications.

[Dan Fromm]

I have a lot of enlarging lenses and most don't have the capability to easily remove the rear group. And of the ones that do -- mostly of German heritage -- I would be reluctant to try. First, the front and rear threads may not be the same size, let alone the same size of a particular shutter. Perhaps more importantly, placing a shutter in-between the enlarging lens groups will add a certain amount of space that the lens was not designed for, and will create some sort of unknown optical change -- probably for the worse.

Hmm. I have a heap of enlarging lenses too. I've been able to unscrew all of their rear cells. Front cells of some, e.g., Boyer lenses in their "re-entrant" mount are more difficult.

I don't understand your reluctance to try. Which size of standard shutter a lens' cells fit is easily asked without risking harm to the lens. As for spacing, well, Schneider's barrels for lenses whose cells fit #00, #0, and #1 shutters conform to the shutter standards. Been there, tried it. Understand, #1 shutters are asymmetric (front thread, M40x0.75, rear thread M36x0.75) so reversing a lens that fits one (or a barrel that matches one) takes a little creativity. Its been done.

Re barrel length, if cells taken from a barrel will fit a shutter at all checking whether the lens' total length in shutter matches its total length is shutter is pretty easy.

Not all enlarging lenses' cells are direct fits in standard shutters. I have one EL-Nikkor, a 105/5.6 and its a no go. But in barrel so easily reversed and front-mounted. None of my Boyer enlarging lenses' cells are direct fits in shutters even though the fiches techniques say they are. Finding that out was easy. For that matter, some of my Boyer taking lenses in barrel have cells that won't fit standard shutters, the fiches techniques notwithstanding.

[Luis-F-S]

They sure do. You can check out Fuji's large format macro lenses at

www.subclub.org/fujinon/index.htm

Their macro lenses are the "A" series (apochromatic) and ranged from 180mm to 1200mm! They all cover 4x5 film. The 1200mm will EVEN cover two FOOT by three FOOT film -- just in case you have any laying around..

I was being facetous. Guess it lost something in the typing. I own severa Artars, G-Clarons, etc. in shutters. L

[IanG]

Ian, thanks for prompting me to check my sanity. I no longer have my 100/5.6 Componon-S, do have my 105/5.6 jes' plain Componon in Schneider #105 barrel. Its cells are too small to fit a #0, are direct fits in a #00. Yes, I have the shutters too and I did the test.

Thanks Dan, I was sure I'd seen a 105mm Componon in a shutter, I tried my 100,, f5.6 Componon S and the front cell definitely doesn't fit a shutter.



So don't they make "Macro" lenses for LF cameras? I know I own a bunch of process lenses optimized for 1:1. L

You've had other answers but in the case of Schneider for a while they used their Componon enlarger lenses as Macro lenses before producing more specialist M-Componon's and Makro Symmar HM lenses.

Ian

[IanG]

I have a lot of enlarging lenses and most don't have the capability to easily remove the rear group. And of the ones that do -- mostly of German heritage -- I would be reluctant to try. First, the front and rear threads may not be the same size, let alone the same size of a particular shutter. Perhaps more importantly, placing a shutter in-between the enlarging lens groups will add a certain amount of space that the lens was not designed for, and will create some sort of unknown optical change -- probably for the worse.


Schneider sold the 135mm f5.6 Componon in a #0 shutter, and it's a direct swap. I have 2 and just placed my spare one's cells in a Compur #0. Dan says the 10omm f5,6 mm Componon cells fit a #00 shutter, and I can confirm so do the cells from a 50mm f5.6 Componon, so it's likely so do the cell from the 80mm f5.6 Componon.

Interestingly Schneider's later M-Componons were sold with shutters behind the lens, so their spacing is probably different.

Ian

[Daniel Unkefer]

I've just finished getting and "setting up" a set of Schneider Componons, to use on my Plaubel Makiflexes. According to the old Schneider literature, these lenses are optimized at 1:4 and are flat field. So they are different from my chrome convertible Symmars. They has superb color correction, and frankly, they are a joy to look through. :cool:

Here's my Makiflex Standard, with a 150mm Componon. Next to it are the 180mm Componon, the 210mm Componon, and the 240mm Componon.

[Dan Fromm]

Daniel, I think I have the Schneider propaganda you quoted from. If so, you misread it slightly and there's more:


Zur Schneider-Componon-Serie wird jeder Fachmann greifen, der das feinste Detail seiner Negative in Großfotos makellos wiedergeben muß. Die optimale Korrektion dieser Componon-Objektive liegt im 10-fachen Vergrößerungsbereich.

Die Schneider-Comparon-Serie ist zur Erreichung der allgemein geschätzten Compononleistung im 2-bis 6-fachen Vergrößerungsbereich neu geschaffen worden. Bei der Comparon-Serie liegt die optimale Korrektur im 4-fachen Vergrößerungsbereich.

Selbstverständlich kann mit dem Componon z. B. 2- bis 6-fach oder mit dem Comparon 8- bis 12-fach vergrößert werden, genau so, wie man mit Aufnahmeobjektiven nicht nur bei unendlich arbeiten kann. Außergewöhnlich hohen Anforderungen kann jedoch zuverlässig durch zweckentsprechende Objektiv-Wahl entsprochen werden.

In plain English, the Componon (not -S) is optimized for 10x and is best for 8x - 12x and the Comparon is optimized for 4x and is best for 2x - 6x. Of course, either can be used over the full range 2x - 12x. Buy our lenses!

I've tried out 105/4.5 and 150/5.6 Comparons as taking lenses around 1:2. They're ok, aren't the best, and can give great value for money. I'd rather have a Comparon than a roughly equivalent MP-4 Tominon.