Converting a 6x9 enlarger to (approx) 4x5 enlarger

[tonyowen]

Has anyone every tried, or know of any attempts, to convert a 6x9 (cm) enlarger into an enlarger that would (almost) cover 4X5 (inch) negatives??

I can visualize problems - but some problems can be minimized whereas others are immutable.

The (specific) enlarger in question is a Krokus 69 which I've had since the 1980s - but I'm after more general responses.

regards
Tony

[Doremus Scudder]

General response:

I don't know the situation in the U.K., but here in the States, 4x5 enlargers are relatively plentiful and cheap; relative, that is, to the trouble and time it would take to custom modify a medium format enlarger. If you want to work in 4x5, I'd start looking for a used 4x5 enlarger in good condition.

Best,

Doremus

[Jim Jones]

I agree with Doremus. If this isn't practical where you are, converting the Krokus would be difficult. The entire light source and condensers won't work. Perhaps the easiest conversion is to fix a box on top of the negative stage that holds the 4x5 film flat about 1.5 inches higher than the 6x9 negatives. The old Elwood enlargers used a wood negative holder that slid into a slot. Such a negative holder can be built up from slats of wood. Some Elwoods sandwiched the negative between two sheets of glass, but this may be unnecessary. Above the negative holder is an opal glass diffuser somewhat larger than 4x5, and above that, the light source. The opal diffuser could be replaced by condenser lenses, but this may place quite a load on the 6x9 Krokus body. Even if you fabricate such a modification, some tinkering may be necessary to get uniform illumination across the negative.

[Bob Salomon]

I agree with Doremus. If this isn't practical where you are, converting the Krokus would be difficult. The entire light source and condensers won't work. Perhaps the easiest conversion is to fix a box on top of the negative stage that holds the 4x5 film flat about 1.5 inches higher than the 6x9 negatives. The old Elwood enlargers used a wood negative holder that slid into a slot. Such a negative holder can be built up from slats of wood. Some Elwoods sandwiched the negative between two sheets of glass, but this may be unnecessary. Above the negative holder is an opal glass diffuser somewhat larger than 4x5, and above that, the light source. The opal diffuser could be replaced by condenser lenses, but this may place quite a load on the 6x9 Krokus body. Even if you fabricate such a modification, some tinkering may be necessary to get uniform illumination across the negative.
On top of all that the bellows on the enlarger is probably too short to use a 120 to 150mm 45 lens and the 69 lens that the enlarger does use would not cover a 45 neg.

[Luis-F-S]

Why bother? Used 5x4 DeVeres have to be as plentiful used as used Omegas are here in the States. All you'll do is ruin a 6x9 enlarger.

[tonyowen]

All you'll do is ruin a 6x9 enlarger.
Thank you all - you've confirmed by assumption, but it does not harm to ask - after all if you don't you don't get.
One geographic/market point - the availability of "used" 4x5 enlargers at a "reasonable" price is very small in the UK compared with North America. In addition their costs versus average income here is much worse than yours across the pond..
Again thanks to all
regards
Tony

[pdh]

For someone with the right mechanical & craft skills (and you presumably have them otherwise you wouldn't be considering the conversion), an alternative could be to build a light source & negative carrier so you can use your 5x4 camera as an enlarger.
I've seen numerous threads at APUG on this, and I'd be surprised if there were not a few here too if you have a look.

[tonyowen]

[QUOTE=pdh;1264440you can use your 5x4 camera as an enlarger.[/QUOTE]
Brilliant, thank you - why didn't I think of that!!!!!!
I've got a Calumet monorail, so as you've said I have the majority of the system.
regards
Tony

[Steve Goldstein]

I recall seeing a web writeup where someone converted a Beseler 23C to 4x5. As I recall he found that Omega carriers could be made to fit. It was a very nice job, and made me regret having sold my 23C (to get a 45MX) - the 23C could be moved in and out of my darkroom with ease, while the 45MX had to be disassembled to get it through the door and then very awkwardly reassembled in place.

Sadly, my link has rotted. I'll see if I can find it via the WayBack Machine.

[Steve Goldstein]

Found it! The first part of the article discusses the physical conversion of the 23C, the second is about an LED head the poster developed for it. The Wayback Machine didn't snag the photos, but the text description of the conversion is pretty good.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120607041152/http://www.deadbread.com/crumbs/23c.html

[Steve Goldstein]

Found it! The first part of the article discusses the physical conversion of the 23C, the second is about an LED head the poster developed for it. The Wayback Machine didn't snag the photos, but the text description of the conversion is pretty good.

https://web.archive.org/web/20120607041152/http://www.deadbread.com/crumbs/23c.html

Even better, I found that I'd saved off the entire web page including photos. It's about a dozen files, all of which are quite small. Send me an email with your email address and I'll be happy to send it along.

[pdh]

Brilliant, thank you - why didn't I think of that!!!!!!
I've got a Calumet monorail, so as you've said I have the majority of the system.
regards
Tony

also have a google for "graflarger" - in fact there's a couple on ebay.com at the moment, and though from the US they are "relatively inexpensive" and you might get away with paying < £100 even if you get hit with VAT&Import Duty.

[tonyowen]

Steve,
Absolutely fantastic
thank you very much
regards
Tony

[tonyowen]

[/B] with your email address and I'll be happy to send it along.
vtowen@btinternet.com
regards
Tony

[Drew Wiley]

I'd be worried about how stable and vibration-free a conversion would be. It's just so much easier starting out with something bigger. 4x5 enlargers are way more
common than 6x9 versions anyway. But whatever. If this is an excuse for a fun project, then best of luck!

[William Whitaker]

As I have done many times in the past, I would ask myself, "Do I want to be an engineer or a photographer?" The answer is almost always clear.

I would imagine shipping an enlarger from the States would be expensive, but would it really be unrealistic? So many old enlargers go wanting here that you may be able to find something serviceable for about the cost of shipping if you're patient. On the other hand, don't look for a DeVere here. They seem to be much more common in your corner of the globe. Best wishes with your search.

[Tin Can]

Look at Beseler 45MX as they have an easy to remove main unit, which is the light source,condenser head, negative stage, focus parts, bellows and lens stage. The whole thing can be shipped in smaller box and mounted with one bolt to anything that can be adjusted up and down for elevation and sizing the print.

These are thrown away in USA, most likely dozens every day.

I bought Linhof Kardan Color from EU and did not find shipping impossible or too expensive. It is bigger and weighs more than what I am talking about.

That said,

DeVere 504 is the best chassis ever made.

[Drew Wiley]

Heck. They've got plenty of vintage Durst in the EU, and not just here. I'd just aim for a 138 and be done with it. But that's me.

[tonyowen]

I heard you all and cannot disagree,
In terms of the Beseler conversion the enlarger's construction offers a lot of space to enable change - however ........
I'm still at the beginning stage of 4x5 (5x4) photography so there is a lot of time to consider the fundamentals of whether I go the enlarger or scanner routes.
Engineer versus photographer??? - as an engineer (now retired) I love and appreciate the old(???) mechanical (cameras, microscopes etc) devices. Digital is now a fact of life, but you can't muck around with them.
IN many ways consider cars - years ago it was a rite of passage to dismantle and rebuild a car - nowadays it is almost impossible to do anything with a car except change the tyre (tires) and fill up with gas.
However I'm rambling
Thank you all for your comments.
regards
Tony

[Drew Wiley]

You'd love a classic old Durst. While my neighbors down the street wear working on speedboats and hotrods, I was refurbishing enlargers made our of machined
stainless steel and diecast parts. Now everything is CNC aluminum and plastic. For the same reason I'm coveting a 60's or 70's vintage Letiz microscope. Maybe
lens technology has improved a bit since then; but the mechanical build peaked awhile back and will probably never be the same again.