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View Full Version : Which lens to achieve shallow DOF on 4x5" RB Graflex Super D?



AtlantaTerry
26-Jul-2015, 16:47
Dan,

OK, if an Aero Ektar can't be used on my 4x5" R.B. Super D Graflex to create soft focus images what other lens might you suggest I look for?

Golly, it kinda makes me mad that I've had that camera for who knows how many years and have done nothing with it until my sunset years. :(

Thanks,
Terry

Dan Fromm
26-Jul-2015, 17:12
Terry, I can't answer your question. I've never been interested in soft focus lenses and know very little about them. Aero Ektars aren't soft focus lenses. USAF didn't buy soft focus lenses.

Since you want advice I suggest you start a discussion in the Lenses etc. section. You might also click on this link http://research-repository.st-andrews.ac.uk/handle/10023/505 and click to download. You'll get doctoral dissertation on soft-focus lenses and pictorialism, not a lens catalog per se, but people interested in pictorialism or soft-focus lenses might find it an interesting read.

SF lenses are very specialized and there's not a lot of agreement about them except that when needed they're good things. Do check your budget, though, respected ones don't go cheap. I say this even thought I once bought a 210 Busch Nicola Perscheid Objectiv for only $42. I don't expect to see a deal like that ever again.

goamules
26-Jul-2015, 17:18
Good point. Aero Ektars were made to take high resolution reconnaissance photos from altitude. I'm not even sure why they needed fast lenses.

goamules
26-Jul-2015, 17:20
Are there other versions? Different focal lengths? Different apertures?

Probably. Is there an internet?

Dan Fromm
26-Jul-2015, 18:21
Good point. Aero Ektars were made to take high resolution reconnaissance photos from altitude. I'm not even sure why they needed fast lenses.Well, for one they sometimes shot at night. For another, the primitive cameras that used Aero Ektars didn't have forward motion compensation, instead used high shutter speeds to reduce motion blur.

Jac@stafford.net
26-Jul-2015, 19:51
OK, if an Aero Ektar can't be used on my 4x5" R.B. Super D Graflex to create soft focus images what other lens might you suggest I look for?

I am not Dan, of course, but soft focus is not the same as de-focus, shallow DOF, diffused focus or just plain screwed up Softar or Vaseline smeared lenses.

RSalles
26-Jul-2015, 19:56
What about a Dallmeyer Pentac? I have seen this lens going til f2.9 and and it have been used by the British Air Ministry staff. Maybe a lens to consider also, in this days where an Aero Ektar is costing so much, and few of them are in mint condition,

Cheers,

Renato

EdSawyer
26-Jul-2015, 20:49
I was going to suggest the 8" f/2.9 Pentac. It's probably the best aero/fast lens to use on a 4x5 RB camera. It will reach infinity without any modifications to the camera (unlike the 7" AE). A 210mm f/3.5 Xenar might be another nice choice.

AtlantaTerry
26-Jul-2015, 20:53
Terry, I can't answer your question. I've never been interested in soft focus lenses and know very little about them. Aero Ektars aren't soft focus lenses. USAF didn't buy soft focus lenses.
<snip>


Yes, of course an AE is not a soft focus lens! Silly me. :p I wrote that in haste when other folks in the house wanted to go out to get something to eat. My bad. Sorry about that.

What I should have asked for was a suggestion for a fast lens that would work on my 4x5" R.B. Super D Graflex, one that would give me a shallow depth of field. Much of my work is on the sets of film and television productions where I create character photographs of actors in costume and makeup that will be used to promote the production in press releases, ads, posters, magazine covers, etc. So I am always looking to give the producers photographs that are different or something "interesting" about them. A fast optic that is sharp, such as an Aero Ektar, would be the kind of tool I am looking for.

BTW, since I would be mainly creating portraits with fast sharp lenses, I don't have to worry very much about focusing to infinity.

Here are some of my large format portraits of actors from the set of an 1845-era film about slavery in the southern United States, "Doin' Time". These were created with a 240mm f/6.8 TeleCongo on my Crown Graphic, both of which were stolen in 2014.

https://www.facebook.com/Terry.Thomas.Photos/media_set?set=a.10205139158575159.1073741832.1130413908&type=3

Oren Grad
26-Jul-2015, 22:13
Thread re-planted in the proper garden.

LabRat
26-Jul-2015, 22:46
Before you go bonkers on this, get a Tessar and shoot it wide open, first... They have a pretty look to them... And trying old copier lenses that have an adjustable iris (that were made for 1:1 repro) have a very shallow DOF when used at normal shooting ranges... (Those will set you back about $20)

Soft focus lenses have gotten scary expensive, and you are limited to it's range of effects, that might work (or not) for you... And the process will work/not work with the look/feel that you are to achieve... (Either make or break it, only if you can "line up the stars" in the lab...)

The fun thing about these cameras, is that you can try all kinds of lenses and see what you get... (From bare lens elements, to old unmarked barrels and anything else you can mount, get focused, and set an exposure for... Everything will have it's own "personality"...

Let IT show you what it can do...

Steve K

IanG
26-Jul-2015, 23:15
I was going to suggest the 8" f/2.9 Pentac. It's probably the best aero/fast lens to use on a 4x5 RB camera. It will reach infinity without any modifications to the camera (unlike the 7" AE). A 210mm f/3.5 Xenar might be another nice choice.

Some of the air Ministry f2.9 Pentac lenses aren't very high quality and they also have restricted aperture ranges, a normal Pentac would be better, another option is the f3.5 Dalmac sometimes just marked "Press" Kodak sold this lens along with TTH Cooke Series II (Aviar) and Ross lenses in the UK, other options were a Kodak Anastigmat or the much faster TTH Cooke f2.5 Serues X.

The easiest lenses to find would be the Dalmac or a SeriesII Cooke.

Ian

richardman
27-Jul-2015, 00:06
A lot of people are DoF enthusiasts - The best way to do that is just to move to 8x10. If you look at the (Month) Portrait threads, you would see a lot of examples of razor thin DoF.

Or use a long lens. A 300mm at F9 at 10 feet, the DoF is ~5 inches.

I like the soft focus effect from the Cooke lens myself, not at the softest setting, but just soft enough and the background melts away.

IanG
27-Jul-2015, 00:23
A lot of people are DoF enthusiasts - The best way to do that is just to move to 8x10. If you look at the (Month) Portrait threads, you would see a lot of examples of razor thin DoF.

Or use a long lens. A 300mm at F9 at 10 feet, the DoF is ~5 inches.

I like the soft focus effect from the Cooke lens myself, not at the softest setting, but just soft enough and the background melts away.


The Cooke Series II 6", 7", & 8¼" (& shorter) lenses don't have the soft focus settings, this was only added to the longer focus lenses 10½" upwards which are marked as Portrait lenses.

Ian

richardman
27-Jul-2015, 01:11
The Cooke Series II 6", 7", & 8¼" (& shorter) lenses don't have the soft focus settings, this was only added to the longer focus lenses 10½" upwards which are marked as Portrait lenses.

Ian

Not true. I have a 7" with soft focus. It's not a setting, but you screw out the back cell. It's actually documented as such, so it's not a "hack".

IanG
27-Jul-2015, 01:49
Not true. I have a 7" with soft focus. It's not a setting, but you screw out the back cell. It's actually documented as such, so it's not a "hack".

Yes there were Series IIa, b, c, d, and e's all with soft focus settings but these weren't sold in "Sunken" mounts for SLRs.

Ian

richardman
27-Jul-2015, 02:01
Ah yes, you are correct.

jp
27-Jul-2015, 04:58
IMO, the stock 190 optar totally rocks it for thin high quality DOF. Great rendering of the near out of focus and far out of focus and easy to use with the auto-aperture.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8546224880/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8608288220/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/13759696@N02/8311820995/

I have not put a soft focus lens on the RB Super D yet. (Simply because my speeds are doing that just fine)

Randy
27-Jul-2015, 06:06
A gallery (http://www.pbase.com/rsweatt/rb_mods) of the mods I did on my Series D with sample images.

monkeymon
27-Jul-2015, 08:44
Zeiss Tessar T 210/3.5 or Meyer Trioplan V 210/3.5. Both will fit in nicely without modifications. Pentacs do not fit in unless you slightly enlarge the opening. They also have a low contrast & glow, depends on what you like.

AtlantaTerry
27-Jul-2015, 17:57
<snip>
Or use a long lens. A 300mm at F9 at 10 feet, the DoF is ~5 inches.
<snip>


I already use a long lens. It is a 300mm f/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar-N that I picked up used a couple years ago. I was the only person to bid on it on FleaBay. I swear it was never used, it's beautiful! (And heavy.)

Here are some Dagorhir character portraits created with that Rodenstock on the Cambo:

"Kali" 1/8th at f/5.6:
137657

"The Moor" 1/15th at f/8:
137658

"After the Battle"
137659

My setup:
137660

4x5" Cambo (not sure of the model)
300mm f/5.6 Rodenstock Sironar-N
Cambo compendium
shutter release: rubber squeeze ball to air piston
10x20 foot grey fabric camera left to diffuse late afternoon sunlight
sandbags to hold down the 10x20 foot fabric :eek:
5-In-1 reflector for fill, if needed
Manfrotto video fluid head
Manfrotto video tripod
Arisa Edu Ultra 100
HC-110 "H" dilution
exposed only two sheets of film per person (primary and backup)
Epson scans to TIF by Dunwoody Photo Lab

richardman
27-Jul-2015, 19:20
So what's your question? :-) Great work.

BetterSense
27-Jul-2015, 19:57
Well, for one they sometimes shot at night. For another, the primitive cameras that used Aero Ektars didn't have forward motion compensation, instead used high shutter speeds to reduce motion blur.

Diffraction limit becomes relevant for such an infinity - focused application. Same with telescopes; bigger really is better.

EdSawyer
28-Jul-2015, 12:13
The 240 Congo f/6.3 is a nice lens - I have a couple of those now, they came on Cambo Maxiportraits which is how/why I got them. Wide-open, those are pretty sharp yet also have that really nice tessar quality of backgrounds blurring to a nice diffuse bokeh. F/6.3 at head-and-shoulders distance is actually pretty shallow. So if you can find another one of those for the RB Super D that would be a nice option too. THe pentac has some glow wide-open but it's basically gone by f/4. I would guess it is as good as most f/3.5 tessars in that regard, unless a modern coated lens is being compared. (the f/3.5 tessars I am familiar with are older lenses, uncoated, like the Pentac.)

-Ed

Pete Roody
28-Jul-2015, 12:33
I use a 7-1/4" F4 Verito on my Super D. It is a recessed mount and focuses at infinity. Closes inside the camera too. Also use a 9" Pinkham and a 9" Dagor. I like 9" lenses for portraits.

Jac@stafford.net
28-Jul-2015, 12:34
Diffraction limit becomes relevant for such an infinity - focused application. Same with telescopes; bigger really is better.

It would seem so. When I last checked, long ago, aerial mapping lenses were tested for certification wide-open even if they had aperture adjustments.

ic-racer
28-Jul-2015, 17:04
Which lens to achieve shallow DOF on 4x5" RB Graflex Super D?

Define "Shallow."
Aperture and magnification are your only two variables (assuming you are steady with your acceptable CoC). I suspect there are hundreds of lenses out there for you.