Darlot Artist Anachrom Pulligny and Puyo Lens Questions

[Jimmy Mathis]

Ok, I made a surprise purchase recently that I could not pass up. I bought a Darlot Artiste Anachrom Pulligny/Puyo lens. I make and shoot silver Bromide Dry Plate negatives and I thought this would be a great addition to my lens collection because it was made for blue UV films like what I make.

I have searched this forum and the web and have not found the info that will help me, so I thought I would ask here as I am sure I am not the only person wondering about the use of these lenses.

I am a “Newbie” to understanding the minds of Pulligny and Puyo, I have read most of their writings on these lenses and I am still confused, I have shot many dry plates with no success as of yet and now I am looking for some guidance.

First off the built in iris is labeled f/11,15,22,30,44,60; are these numbers in reference to measurements in millimeters or ?? How do I equate these numbers to modern f/stops?

Secondly, the gear drive scale: line 0 is where I focus, i understand the infinity symbol but the other numbers 6,5,4,3,2.50,2,1.50 are these measurements in meters? And if so how do I measure? From subject to where on the lens or camera? the iris or ground glass, front element/rear element.

Thirdly, What does the F.40 mean?

I love experiments but with the time and expense of making dry plates by hand I would rather not waste dozens of 5x7 and 8x10 plates.

Any help and guidance will be tremendously appreciated!!!!

Many Thanks,
Jimmy

[Steven Tribe]

F.40 means a focal length of 40cm for this particular combination.

There were 3 sizes of Objectif d'Artiste.

I can't see Darlot on the shown engraving, so I think this was made either before or after the two French gents association with Darlot.
There is an extensive previous post with links to the Photo Club de Paris's publication of the logic behind the lens design and it's use in practice. They include reproductions of the Mysterious numbers!

[anachromatic]

Your lens was made for 18x24cm plates.
Variable focal length pair or fix focal length?

Check here: http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?123048-Les-Objectifs-d-artiste-by-L-de-Pulligny-and-C-Puyo

[Jimmy Mathis]

Thank you Steven, I added another image of the lens.

Thank you Anachromatic!

Cheers

[Jimmy Mathis]

Fixed focal length lens

[Jim Galli]

Here was my simple approach, and I had some success. You focus for best visual focus with the 'scale' at 0 and then you calculate the distance to your subject and move the scale to the indicated distance. Fairly simple and I've had effective photos.


http://tonopahpictures.0catch.com/Darlot4444Sale/MagicLamp_1s.jpg
magic lamp / 385mm puyo anachromatique objectif de artiste

[Andrew]

interesting links.... thank you

so the need to refocus was because you focus on a full spectrum of light but the old glass plates were primarily blue sensitive and that generates a focus shift [as I've seen with infra red, but presumably in the reverse direction]

so surely if you're using panchromatic emulsions, rather than glass plates, it's a case of 'what you see is what you get' and you'll just get the same image on the film as you'd see on the GG after you've "refocussed"?

does anyone have an opinion about whether it'd be useful/ desirable to use modern film and a UV Pass filter so you're more selective to the blue end ??
.

[Jimmy Mathis]

Thanks All for the input…..

So I found out how to figure out the f/stops, I’m new to this large format thing after a life time of medium format/35mm. I also, thru trial and many errors, figured out I believe the whole 1.50, 2, 2.50 etc on the after focus at zero adjustment, Thanks Jim for the easier than expected approach….. Also I was setting those to the wrong place on the lens itself. I was setting it to the outside of the iris cutout on the lens, which looks like how Puyo got some of his more interesting out of focus/super soft look, like on the cover of the book Constant Puyo by Emma de Lafforest (in french).
137718

So when I move those points on the lens to the inside of the iris cutout, the focus and the image is magical. I have found that that adjustment is really tricky to get the focus dead on……or is it that I am not at all use to or familiar with focusing a soft focus lens. As this lens is way different than my 12” Wollensak Velostigmat Series II, the Puyo has much more distinct halos and a blue fuzz when focusing at the zero line…. I still need to try more on the measurements and the focus adjustments to get the exact point of measurement to get the setting dead on to my focus point, i.e. if I focus on the eyes do I measure from the eyes to the front element or the iris, etc…. to get the focus right or could it be focus drift??. I guess I could just stop down to get a greater depth of focus, I do like a shallow depth of focus thou.

I also shot some plates without any after focus adjustments and found that it is a stop or two overexposed( I shoot blue sensitive dry plates), mostly the red/yellow uv’s instead of the blue uv hitting the plate first, also found a loss in shadow detail as well. Which may explain the quality to Puyo’s images, the darker overall tonality of the image and the shadows, due to the mechanical means of the lens design for the blue uv, his technique and shooting on a real blue uv sensitive emulsion as I am doing today, which gets me excited about the possibilities. I shot some modern sheet film and when compared to the dry plates there is a tremendous difference in the end result….. So the fun is just beginning for me, I wish I had a scanner….

Andrew, I am not sure how a UV Pass Filter will work with these lens but I do understand now how steep the learning curve these magical lenses have, just getting that whole after focus adjustment down perfectly right as Puyo did so well I would guess its practice, practice, Practice makes perfect. FYI I think he was shooting not at wide open but stopped way down from my observations of his images.

I will post more as I shoot more with this lens and learn from the crappy plates I make, right now its just pure luck to my successes I do believe… so more practice it is for me.

Cheers!

[Andrew]

I just ordered a copy of "Constant Puyo"... I hope the illustrations are good because I don't speak French !

[Jimmy Mathis]

The book has really good images, as far as books go, its not like looking at originals. French is hard to translate, the verb/noun sentence structure makes it difficult. If you have a smart phone or an iPad you can get a translation app, I have “Scanner & Translator by Daniel Rekitar” which allows you to take a photo of the pages and translate them for you, as well as stores that info for you, you can email them as well, very useful. Just remember it still takes a little imagination to piece together the translation to make any sense out of the text. I feel it is worth the trouble to get a understanding of Puyo, his personal life and his approach to photography and how he worked, very interesting if you take the trouble and time.

[Jimmy Mathis]

I thought I would pass this article from "The British Journal of Photography, Volume 53, March 9, 1906 (https://books.google.com/books?id=zkk-AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA184&lpg=PA184&dq=Puyo+Pulligny+lens&source=bl&ots=7RUdilSSLw&sig=Cy2dR0VrHo8u9Fl-BDiCTchPL9k&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CDMQ6AEwA2oVChMI_LbmtPGKxwIVgigeCh3nYg8Q#v=onepage&q=Puyo%20Pulligny%20lens&f=false)", starts on page 184 - 189. It does talk about how to use the lens, so far this is the only writings on the use I have found........ and its in English not French, thankfully!

For those who care... enjoy! :o

[Mark Sawyer]

Thank you, Jimmy! :)

[Steven Tribe]

Lots of interesting links in Google books, but all I get is 1/2 sentences!

I think Jim's comments about adjusting to the distance scale, based on his own experiences, seems very logical.

But there still remains the use of the aperture scale which fills one side of the WHS cut out. At least, I think it is an aperture scale. On my trousse set it runs from 3.5 to 5.5 (cm - diameter of WHS?). Although it has uniform scaling (that is, there are divisions of multiples of 10) it is obviously a log scale. 3.5 to 4.0 has 10 units, whilst 5.0 to 5.5 has 30 units.

Because the trousse set has lots of focal lengths available, there must have been a table supplied with the set which gave the relationship between the aperture diameters and their effective F values for the various combinations.

What would be helpful is to find a different trousse size with similar (but different?) F centimeter markings. Mine is the 40cm focal length set.
I don't have the original casket box, but Darlot often had a concealed compartment in the lid for the flange and/or exposure tables.

[Jimmy Mathis]

Steven,

Andrew from Sydney, Australia, who's has commented in this thread has some interesting Pulligny and Puyo lens, he may have one like yours, none the less his assortment sound very interesting. I hope he may elaborate in this thread on his lenses, Thanks Andrew!!!!:roll eyes:

Cheers

[Steven Tribe]

At last I have a new card reader for my ipad. So here is a reasonable photo of the F scale on the WHS cutout of a 40cm Trousse.

[seven]

Jimmy Mathis, could you somehow post the 5 pages you're talking about here ? Google books is kind of restrictive towards us europeans it seems...

[Jimmy Mathis]

Seven,

Here's 4 pages

[Jimmy Mathis]

2 more pages...

[Jimmy Mathis]

I found articles on the usage of the Pulligny and Puyo Lenses. When I find more info I will post.

[Steven Tribe]

There was a lot of confusion in 1906, too! The two descriptions of use seem to have little relation to each other.

They are both trying to describe the 4 lens set O d'A. This is the post-Darlot era.