View Full Version : Jobo 3025 vs Catlabs CL81 vs whatever else is out there for 8x10 daylight dev
I want to develop film more often but turning my bathroom into a darkroom every time is a really pain in the neck. I want to look into getting a development tank for 8x10 film. The only two I know of so far are the Jobo 3025 and Catlabs CL81. I was wondering if anyone had any experience with either of these and could let me know their honest opinion about them. Perhaps someone could also post some of your results from using either system? I'm so used to developing in trays that I am worried about uneven development in processing tanks. Would love to just see any results to prove my doubts wrong...because these processing tanks are very very expensive lol. I want to be 100% positive that I'll be 100% satisfied before clicking buy.
To anyone who has used either processing tank please let me know what your pros and cons are of using whichever tank you own.
Oren Grad
21-Jul-2015, 22:18
I want to look into getting a development tank for 8x10 film. The only two I know of so far are the Jobo 3025 and Catlabs CL81.
There are many options beside those. The Jobo Expert drums 3004 (four sheets) and 3005 (five sheets) are expensive but superb. Less expensively, there are many print drum options from Jobo and others than can handle one or more sheets of 8x10 film with good results if you are using standard (i.e., non-pyro) developers.
I see one seller on eBay right now offering Jobo 3025 drums for $299. That's way too much money for what it does. I'd either save up for a 3004 or 3005, or if that's not practical I'd begin with an inexpensive print drum and see how that goes. Afraid I can't speak to the CL81 from my own experience, but there's a thread on it here:
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?116084-CatLabs-CL81-experiences
jcoldslabs
21-Jul-2015, 22:39
In the "whatever else is out there" category are Cibachrome 8x10 drums. I use them on rotary bases for all my daylight negative developing and they work really well. (They are cheap, too.) The only two drawbacks are A) negatives need a final fix in a tray to clear the anti-halation backing completely, and B) you can only develop one negative per drum. Since my volume of 8x10 shooting is quite low, I don't mind. If you need to develop multiple sheets at once it might not be the best solution for you.
Jonathan
Jim Noel
21-Jul-2015, 22:47
The Expert drums are excellent. I have one for 4x5/5x7 and another for 8x10. A big advantage over Cibachrome, Unicolor, Beseler and similar drums is that the tubes into which the film is placed are barrel shaped. This allows solutions to reach the back of the film and there are no ribs which often leave streaks.
ruilourosa
21-Jul-2015, 23:56
Paterson orbital! i use two tanks for developing two sheets at the same time. i think for the price there should be a diy alternative as the technology is plain simple!
cheers
Sal Santamaura
22-Jul-2015, 07:23
...I'd...save up for a 3004...How much should I save up? :) Where can I buy one? :D
If only Jobo would resume production of the 3004. It isn't like I'm asking for Kodachrome. ;)
Oren Grad
22-Jul-2015, 08:54
How much should I save up? :)
These days, I'd reckon the price will be $400-500 - plus any opportunity cost one would incur with the substantial time investment that will be required to monitor discussion boards and auction sites for the very occasional appearances thereof. :)
If only Jobo would resume production of the 3004. It isn't like I'm asking for Kodachrome.
Aye!
StoneNYC
22-Jul-2015, 09:09
Yea buy the 3004 and not the 3005, because I'm looking for a good 3005 for about $300 :) if you take mine I will give you the stink eye :)
I think on the high side you'll find some of either for Oren's price of $400-$500 but they can be had for $300 if you are patient, all my expert tanks were $300 or less.
tgtaylor
22-Jul-2015, 09:18
For developing one or two sheets of 8x10, the Jobo 2830 is the way to go. For five sheets, the Jobo 3005. I have and use both. I don't put off developing so if I have only one sheet to develop like I did yesterday I'll use the 2830. The minimum amount of chemistry required by that drum is 100mL - the same amount of stock Xtol for each sheet according to Kodak.
Thomas
How big is the Jobo 3005? Would I be able to develop film by rolling it on a table or would I need to buy a motorized base? If I would need a motorized base could someone point me to one that would work well with the Jobo 3005?
Also, I've never used Jobo tanks (only stainless steel)...I'm a little confused on how the tank fills up when there are 4-5 barrels for the film to sit in. Do they fill up evenly? Are there ever any problems with one or two barrels not getting enough chemistry in them?
How big is the Jobo 3005? Would I be able to develop film by rolling it on a table or would I need to buy a motorized base? If I would need a motorized base could someone point me to one that would work well with the Jobo 3005?
You can use the Jobo 1509 or something like this: 137332
Also, I've never used Jobo tanks (only stainless steel)...I'm a little confused on how the tank fills up when there are 4-5 barrels for the film to sit in. Do they fill up evenly? Are there ever any problems with one or two barrels not getting enough chemistry in them?[/QUOTE]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCUSWwse1M4
Aside from the several folks who commented above to say Expert drums are excellent, you can deduce they work well even without understanding exactly how (though google will answer that question for you if you ask it), a great MANY thousands of others will also say the same over the past 20+ years since these have been around.
I've seen that video but I don't have a Jobo processor so I don't know if it would fill up the same when I do it by hand. If I pour the chemicals in like I would if it were a stainless steel tank would the 4-5 barrels fill up evenly? From the video it kind of looks as though one barrel always has more chemistry than the others...once the chemistry is poured in from the top do the chemicals stay inside the barrels or do they mix during agitation? (I couldn't tell from the video)
If you really wanted, you could use a flexible funnel to fill it while it is on its side and rolling.
There is always more liquid in the tube at the bottom, but as you are rolling the tank the chemicals are evenly and randomly distributed.
Without opening the dreadful (and somewhat silly) debate about fill time, i can say from personal (as other might), and commercial experience, these work, with or without a machine, and will blow away any other processing method (with a simple coca cola densitometer test) including the best refrema, tray or other gadget out there. Thats why they cost big bucks. There is nothing to compare. That and the fact it takes many human hours to make one of these.
Michael Cienfuegos
22-Jul-2015, 10:05
I don't shoot that much 8x10 either, and I have found the Unicolor print drum to be satisfactory. As others have mentioned, you can do only one sheet, but it is still easier for me than trying to completely darken my bathroom. I have three of these print drums, so I can up the production a bit.
m
If you really wanted, you could use a flexible funnel to fill it while it is on its side and rolling.
There is always more liquid in the tube at the bottom, but as you are rolling the tank the chemicals are evenly and randomly distributed.
Without opening the dreadful (and somewhat silly) debate about fill time, i can say from personal (as other might), and commercial experience, these work, with or without a machine, and will blow away any other processing method (with a simple coca cola densitometer test) including the best refrema, tray or other gadget out there. Thats why they cost big bucks. There is nothing to compare. That and the fact it takes many human hours to make one of these.
I'm less worried about fill time and more concerned about each sheet of film getting enough chemicals. So with the jobo tanks I would need constant agitation to keep the chemical levels in each tube "even"?
How big is the Jobo 3005?
StoneNYC
22-Jul-2015, 11:40
I'm less worried about fill time and more concerned about each sheet of film getting enough chemicals. So with the jobo tanks I would need constant agitation to keep the chemical levels in each tube "even"?
How big is the Jobo 3005?
Yes rotary drums need constant rotation to keep even development, this is true of all rotary tanks not just jobo 30004/3005.
Just get one, there's a somewhat cracked 3005 that's been repaired by a lab on eBay right now for $299
I won't buy that one personally but I'm anal and that one appears to be the older version without Roman numerals above each sleeve, I'm sure it works fine, but all mine have the numbers and I want them to match. Lol.
Just trust us, you won't regret getting one.
I'm going to get a Jobo 3005. Sounds like that one would best suit what I am looking for.
How big is the Jobo 3005? The one on ebay says it's 18inch x 8inch is it really that big???
StoneNYC
22-Jul-2015, 11:47
I'm going to get a Jobo 3005. Sounds like that one would best suit what I am looking for.
How big is the Jobo 3005? The one on ebay says it's 18inch x 8inch is it really that big???
Yes
What does the inside of a Jobo 2830 look like? If I were to buy one of these too is there anything else I would need to buy along with the drum for 8x10 film developing?
Are any that are on ebay right now worth picking up?
tgtaylor
22-Jul-2015, 19:37
You would need two print seperators to keep the sheets separate. Threse are little cylinders that slide on the tanks ridges to keep the prints, or in this case the negatives separate.
Thomas
Would those parts happen to be on ebay right now? If so could you link me?
tgtaylor
22-Jul-2015, 19:43
I have no idea but Omar (kOh303) should be able to fix you up.
Thorax
May just be my luck but I've had constant issues with a 2830 tank with X-ray film, but none with either of the 2840 extension tanks. . .
I don't shoot that much 8x10 either, and I have found the Unicolor print drum to be satisfactory. As others have mentioned, you can do only one sheet, but it is still easier for me than trying to completely darken my bathroom. I have three of these print drums, so I can up the production a bit.
m
If you have one of the larger Unicolor drums, like the 11x14, you can do more than one 8x10 at a time. Or four with the 16x20 (just like you can do four 4x5's in the 8x10 drum).
http://www.willwilson.com/unicolorinstructions.html
Koh303 (your inbox is full)
Sorry...ignore that last PM I just woke up. I was wondering if those clips are all I needed besides the drum to be able to develop 8x10 film or if there is anything else I need to look for and buy?
Michael Cienfuegos
23-Jul-2015, 09:05
If you have one of the larger Unicolor drums, like the 11x14, you can do more than one 8x10 at a time. Or four with the 16x20 (just like you can do four 4x5's in the 8x10 drum).
http://www.willwilson.com/unicolorinstructions.html
I also have the 11x14 drum, but didn't want to confuse anyone. The unicolor drums are fine unless you are developing xray film.
m
What's the difference with xray film?
Lachlan 717
23-Jul-2015, 10:06
What's the difference with xray film?
Many types are 2 sided.
Oh that's right I forgot...I got so used to ektascan b/ra I forgot there was other xray films out there lol
AuditorOne
23-Jul-2015, 15:47
I may be reading things wrong. Correct me if I am. I understand that the OP was trying to assess different systems for 8x10 film developing.
I have read several references to the 2800 print drums in this thread. It needs to be made clear, the print drum is not intended to be used for film. They were designed solely for print paper. Most films need chemical on both sides to develop the emulsion as well as to clear away antihalation layers that are frequently on the opposite side.
I have personally tried the following methods with success.
1. Tray development - Requires a dark room.
2. CL-81 Reel for 8x10 sheet film. Will accept 3 8x10 films. Used with the Jobo 2550 Multitank 5.
3. Jobo Expert Drum 3004 or 3005. One takes 4 sheets of film and the other takes 5 sheets. Considered by many to be the best option.
4. BTZS 8x10 Tubes. Each tube takes one sheet of 8x10 film.
Personally, if I am not doing individual development for each sheet I like the CL-81 reel. Once I got the hang of it I found it to be very easy to use.
If I need individual development times I use the BTZS tubes. It is a pretty slick system and is very intuitive. This system uses the least amount of chemical.
StoneNYC
23-Jul-2015, 16:16
Is it me or did the new 3005 drums jump in price dramatically? I remember them being around $550 now they are like $750?... :(
Is it me or did the new 3005 drums jump in price dramatically? I remember them being around $550 now they are like $750?... :(
Jobo implemented 2 price adjustments in the past year. Due to low stock globally many prices are only now being revised.
About 10 years ago this happened with Ilford, once, when a local distributor had not adjusted prices for about 2-3 years, and then when the distribution was handed over to a new company, the price hiked close to 100% relative to where it was until then.
StoneNYC
23-Jul-2015, 16:45
Jobo implemented 2 price adjustments in the past year. Due to low stock globally many prices are only now being revised.
About 10 years ago this happened with Ilford, once, when a local distributor had not adjusted prices for about 2-3 years, and then when the distribution was handed over to a new company, the price hiked close to 100% relative to where it was until then.
Understood, well that's a shame, this might raise the used prices too. The new price wasn't so bad before.
I wonder if you could have someone 3D print something similar to a Jobo...if I had one I could ask the 3D shop by my house lol
dodphotography
23-Jul-2015, 19:57
Pass on the CL81 if you ever want to contact print... Scratches film like a mother
AuditorOne
25-Jul-2015, 19:15
Pass on the CL81 if you ever want to contact print... Scratches film like a mother
I have heard people say that but I contact print CL81 developed negatives all the time. I am looking at negatives that I just developed with the CL81 this afternoon and they are fine, just like the rest. No scratches evident.
I hand load the reel while it is on its side and I rotate by hand. Most of the time I only load two films, not three. I have one film on the inside track and one on the outside. I use 350 ml of developer. No problems.
I would touch base with Catlabs and find out why you are having trouble.
kleinbatavia
27-Jul-2015, 00:45
Jobo is expensive, but convenient, however, you could always piece together an alternative. I have an old colordrum with three black abs pipes in it. They are 30 cm sections (around 12") with a 7.5cm diameter (3"). I cut a few square bits out at the bottom and made sure the tubes are positioned against the walls of the big drum. With the cut outs and open top chemicals can flow freely. This cost me about $10 for the drum and $2 for the pipes. Glue will set you back another $5 if you don't have it. I can do 3 sheets a time like this, which is plenty as many of my sheets need individual development anyway. As for the c81 solution? It may or may not work, but besides offering a service of making stuff available, I think catlabs is too commercial (read, expensive). I've done a lot of OEM sourcing in China over the years, and for something like a c81, production cost extremely low. Granted, the need for QC and export is comparatively high as you don't want any rough edges. Still at over $10 FOB the holders would be way overpriced. Maybe, just maybe under $15 if adjusted for low volume. Personally, I would just order 1000 to get a consistent batch in material and quality and stick them in a warehouse, grinning every time one sold. By the way, this is a personal opinion, I am not trying to knock anyone! It's great there's an alternative available. My preferred road id the DIY... Not just for drums, most LF stuff is affordable if you have time and some creativity...
I've been using the Jobo 28xx drums for X-ray processing;
the 2830 (based on my single sample of a previously unused one) is really good for giving you uneven development, and severe scratches (though seems to work a little better when you put the weighty magnet on the bottom whilst using the cog lid).
the 2840 (based on 2 fairly well used samples) gives near perfect even development, and either minimal or no scratches (unless you gouge one film on the other whilst removing it. . .)
Yet to determine the perfect volume, but the 2840s seem at their best between 200 and 240ml, with the way the 2830 seems to occasionally stop the cpe2 (without the magnet as an additional weight, or with it on the odd time) there's too many variables to contend with but the 100ml(?) volume printed on the 2830 is laughably too low for the X-ray film.
Lachlan 717
27-Jul-2015, 01:34
Jobo is expensive, but convenient, however, you could always piece together an alternative.
The Expert drums' tubes are barreled, not parallel. Straight tubing will not give the same results as an Expert drum. There is method in their madness, as they say...
I just bought a 2830 for 8x10 film development...I'm going to test it out with a few test negatives first before developing real negatives.... I'm actually having buyers remorse because of those who say the 2830 doesn't work well for even development. I hope it works out fine
kleinbatavia
27-Jul-2015, 10:45
The Expert drums' tubes are barreled, not parallel. Straight tubing will not give the same results as an Expert drum. There is method in their madness, as they say...
Hi Lachlan, I've noticed they were slightly different, but can only say that I've had good results with my home built drum. Once the anti halation layer on the back did not dissolve on an old kodak negative. Sorted itself in a post wash and fix. Wish I had the room for tray development though.
ic-racer
27-Jul-2015, 14:06
http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?122184-Marks-when-Using-Jobo-Print-Drums-for-B-amp-W-negatives-Possible-causes-and-solutions
For those who use the Jobo 2830 for developing 8x10 film can you show me a photo of the inside of your drum? I want to see how the clips are installed when you're developing 8x10 film. I just want to make sure I'm doing it right
I think I might still save up for a Jobo 3005...it looks more convenient lol
137741
137742
Just got my Jobo 2830 tanks in the mail today (purchased off ebay) and I am not sure what I am missing to make this a daylight tank. I only photographed the lids because those are the only things different from each other. Looks like I am missing some parts? Can anyone tell me what I am missing?
StoneNYC
29-Jul-2015, 20:42
137741
137742
Just got my Jobo 2830 tanks in the mail today (purchased off ebay) and I am not sure what I am missing to make this a daylight tank. I only photographed the lids because those are the only things different from each other. Looks like I am missing some parts? Can anyone tell me what I am missing?
You're missing the cup, if it's a print drum it had a cup or a closed light trap that looks like the funnel but with a closed hole like these... (Taken from another LF post)
137743
What you have is the light trap for a film drum, the center funnel hole is open so will leak light unless it goes into a center stem that goes all the way to the bottom. The film reels usually go on the stem.
If you had the stem I suppose you could still use it without reels and put the film against the drum wall.
Another pic the of a cup.
137744
AuditorOne
29-Jul-2015, 20:47
The one cap is for the standard daylight tank. It has the insert with the nipple that slides into the black tube that goes through the film reels.
The 2nd cap is used for the print tank but is missing the "hat" that sits in the same basic spot as the insert for the other tank but it is closed black hat. You can see what it looks like beneath the Jobo lid in this ebay posting.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jobo-darkroom-color-print-drum-Jobo-tank-2840-NEW-complete-in-box-/171850406039?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2803151897
EDIT - Stone's pic is a lot better.
Dang it...I don't have either of those I just have an empty drum...and I already left positive feedback on ebay guess I screwed up :(
If I just want to develop 8x10 negatives what would I need to find/buy? Is there a parts number I can search for?
Guess I'll just start saving up for a Jobo 3005
It is possible to do it without the cup as long as you're using the little funnel bit you have on the lid. Just make sure you cover the cog lid with your hand and keep it upside down until you put it on the processor.
Check Catlabs for either the long bits for the reel or the little cap for print processing (e.g http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jobo-03049-beaker-light-trap-for-ALL-Jobo-tank-lids-/271712805196?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f4358614c). It is best to process in subdued light (in my case West facing kitchen window in a typically overcast Scottish summer. . .).
I'll try to get a picture of where the clips go for you - just about to start a lovely 12hr shift on Live Chat. . . But basically I just use 2 of the plain round ones about half-way down the tank, directly opposite each other.
Yet to get the "Perfect" volume just yet, but it WILL be somewhere above the 100ml printed on the tank (for the 2840 tank which quotes 120ml or 140ml I use around 200ml).
Michael Cienfuegos
30-Jul-2015, 14:49
Dang it...I don't have either of those I just have an empty drum...and I already left positive feedback on ebay guess I screwed up :(
If I just want to develop 8x10 negatives what would I need to find/buy? Is there a parts number I can search for?
You should try and contact the person from whom you bought the drum. He might have the part and forgot to include it. Never hurts to ask.
m
Ill chime in here, even though the answer to all these questions is easily found online.
You need the light trap beaker (03049) for a print drum.
You can use the light trap funnel (03042) for prints, providing you plug the hole. There is a dedicated Jobo part which is a block stopper, for tanks or instances when you do not want to use the center core.
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