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cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 10:01
Couple month ago Ari Tapiero started 810M tread and i think its grate, one place knowledge base tread.

couple days ago i got my self a 45AII and i love it. it needed some CLA and it needs new bellows so eminently i went looking for diagram but i had no luck. there is only one dead link. so if anyone has a shop diagram, exploded schematics, pats list or so it would be grate to post it

this is a link to a user manual for bunch of Toyo's, so that is covered http://www.butkus.org/chinon/toyo-view/toyo-view.htm

now this is a link to my tread in regards of bellows replacement:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?123902-Toyo-45A-II-front-standard-dissasebmly

again interesting tread on how to adjust focusing track tension and the focus lock:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?123851-Toyo-45A-II-sloppy-focus-track-how-to-tighten

keep them coming :)

Peter De Smidt
18-Jul-2015, 10:08
Great idea, Luka. For years my main 4x5 camera has been a Toyo AX. It's an outstanding camera for landscape photography.

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2015, 10:13
Luka, thanks!

One point of clarification: the 45CX is a big monorail camera, entirely different from the others in your title. Perhaps you meant the 45CF, which is Toyo's lightweight polycarbonate/carbon fiber field camera that is much closer in concept and function to the 45A/AII/AX? If so, we can fix the thread title.

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 10:52
Oren you are right Sir, CF not CX. i tried to fix it but i cant edit the title, Hope Admin can do it. sorry for that

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2015, 10:59
No problem, fixed now!

I guess for completeness we can also mention the 45AII-L, the version that takes Technika-type boards. Those aren't seen very often, and I imagine one could accomplish the same thing by using a lensboard adapter.

Alan Gales
18-Jul-2015, 11:17
No problem, fixed now!

I guess for completeness we can also mention the 45AII-L, the version that takes Technika-type boards. Those aren't seen very often, and I imagine one could accomplish the same thing by using a lensboard adapter.

Wow! I've never seen or even heard of a 45AII-L.

Toyo does/did make a Toyo to Technika adapter board.

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2015, 11:24
Wow! I've never seen or even heard of a 45AII-L.

http://www.toyoview.co.jp/sub14.html

http://www.toyoview.co.jp/pdf/130.pdf

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 11:25
there is a small difference in II-L and normal Toyo Field 110mm to Linhof Technica adapter. if adapter is used there is several that lens is moved farward and apperently this can be problematic for 65mm lens. now i dont know if this is real issue or just another theoretical fact. in any case i have toyo to linhof adapter incoming and i will be reporting on this as well.

Alan- toyo makes adapter and there is also a clone that Ruby makes

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Toyo-4x5-camera-110x110mm-To-Linhof-Technika-96x99mm-Lens-Board-Adapter-/281145083639?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41758d86f7

this adapter really makes life easier specially in my case where i often land or borrow, lenses from friends

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2015, 11:31
there is a small difference in II-L and normal Toyo Field 110mm to Linhof Technica adapter. if adapter is used there is several that lens is moved farward and apperently this can be problematic for 65mm lens. now i dont know if this is real issue or just another theoretical fact. in any case i have toyo to linhof adapter incoming and i will be reporting on this as well.

More generally, some lensboard adapters and some cameras have design quirks that prevent them from being used together. I can't speak to the Toyo 45 field cameras specifically in this respect, but I have a WP Century camera that has been adapted to accept Toyo field boards. However, because of the geometry of the opening, there are some Toyo Field-to-Technika adapters that won't fit.

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 11:37
just to illustrate what we talked about :)

this is L version and see how and where mounting flange is placed compared to axial Rise and then look ate where that position is with a adapter mounted

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/nejad_ljemani/_57_zpsesm8u0my.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/user/nejad_ljemani/media/_57_zpsesm8u0my.jpg.html)

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/nejad_ljemani/_57-3_zpsve01t3tc.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/user/nejad_ljemani/media/_57-3_zpsve01t3tc.jpg.html)

Alan Gales
18-Jul-2015, 11:37
http://www.toyoview.co.jp/sub14.html

http://www.toyoview.co.jp/pdf/130.pdf

Thanks, Oren. I learn something new everyday!

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 11:38
this is original Toyo adapter

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/nejad_ljemani/_57-2_zpsoeyuceis.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/user/nejad_ljemani/media/_57-2_zpsoeyuceis.jpg.html)

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 11:43
now to add some confusion to mix there was older 45A on ebay with L front standard. it was not an adapter but a barer like on II-L. normally i would say its retrofit but top lens-board lock was different shape. then again in link on this forum i see same type of a45 with what appear to be older L version. am sure there is tons of variations out there.

Alan Gales
18-Jul-2015, 11:48
there is a small difference in II-L and normal Toyo Field 110mm to Linhof Technica adapter. if adapter is used there is several that lens is moved farward and apperently this can be problematic for 65mm lens. now i dont know if this is real issue or just another theoretical fact. in any case i have toyo to linhof adapter incoming and i will be reporting on this as well.

Alan- toyo makes adapter and there is also a clone that Ruby makes

http://www.ebay.com/itm/New-Toyo-4x5-camera-110x110mm-To-Linhof-Technika-96x99mm-Lens-Board-Adapter-/281145083639?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item41758d86f7

this adapter really makes life easier specially in my case where i often land or borrow, lenses from friends

Thanks! I don't own a Toyo myself but my good friend Harold owns a 45A. I'll let him know about the Ruby clone.

tgtaylor
18-Jul-2015, 11:57
You can get the schematics on the Toyo's from the service department at MAC and can order the instruction manuals here: http://toyoview.com/AskToyo/toyo_orderbklts.html

Thomas

Oren Grad
18-Jul-2015, 11:59
And the original Toyo field-to-Horseman field adapter:

137097

137098

Yes, the foam on this one is badly deteriorated. Because of the deep recess, this adapter too may not fit on some non-Toyo cameras that accept Toyo field boards.

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 12:20
You can get the schematics on the Toyo's from the service department at MAC and can order the instruction manuals here: http://toyoview.com/AskToyo/toyo_orderbklts.html

Thomas

Thomas that a link to order users booklet and you ca download them directly using a link below

http://www.butkus.org/chinon/toyo-view/toyo-view.htm

as for a Diagram or shop Manuel Toyo wont give it, i already tried

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 12:22
Oren that Toyo 80mm Horseman recess must be a rare thing! i wounder if any of you guys have that rear standard extension box?

cikaziva
18-Jul-2015, 18:14
i know this is childish but... am looking in to ordering a custom bellows in case i decide to keep my new A45II as a replacement for my Technika. if am ordering custom bellows i could go Red, or Green or Gray... its a nice touch and it will make it more personal.

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/nejad_ljemani/colors_zpsswl6tew0.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/user/nejad_ljemani/media/colors_zpsswl6tew0.jpg.html)

Peter De Smidt
18-Jul-2015, 19:02
Fun. Go for it! I like the blue:).

Jordan
19-Jul-2015, 09:42
If anyone knows of a way to truly lock the front focusing TIGHT, please let me know. I've had a few Toyo metal fields and always think back fondly on them, but it was always a deal breaker that, at least on mine, the focus locking mechanism wasn't solid. I could still adjust the focus with ease even when locked.

cikaziva
19-Jul-2015, 16:02
If anyone knows of a way to truly lock the front focusing TIGHT, please let me know. I've had a few Toyo metal fields and always think back fondly on them, but it was always a deal breaker that, at least on mine, the focus locking mechanism wasn't solid. I could still adjust the focus with ease even when locked.

i just re did focus lock on mine its 15 minute job, that's all. this is a link on how to:

http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?123851-Toyo-45A-II-sloppy-focus-track-how-to-tighten

cikaziva
11-Aug-2015, 10:03
important info on a Tehnika adapter: camera can NOT fold with a adapter attached to front standard! this is a big turn down point for me. basically its adding one more thing to a bag, one more thing to be thanked about! it seams easier re mounting lenses on toyo boards before a shoot then fiddle with this.

cikaziva
11-Aug-2015, 10:23
http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/nejad_ljemani/IMG_20150811_130456_zpsubdl9gxf.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/user/nejad_ljemani/media/IMG_20150811_130456_zpsubdl9gxf.jpg.html)

now this is how standard folds without adapter attached

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/nejad_ljemani/IMG_20150811_130606_zpsiiuvbgnq.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/user/nejad_ljemani/media/IMG_20150811_130606_zpsiiuvbgnq.jpg.html)

and this is with adapter, obstructing 90 degree dropdown

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu96/nejad_ljemani/IMG_20150811_130536_zpshi1lz59i.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/user/nejad_ljemani/media/IMG_20150811_130536_zpshi1lz59i.jpg.html)

Chuck Pere
13-Aug-2015, 06:26
Using the adapter isn't that difficult. After you have done it 50 times it becomes a smooth part of the setup process. And it's small and easy to store in a bag. Don't forget every time you mount a lens on a board three things can happen and two of them are bad.

schafphoto
25-May-2018, 09:47
Lens for storing in folded Toyo.

Does anyone have experience with successful 4x5 lenses for folding into the Toyo 45CF. I have a Fuji 240A f9 in copal 0 that fits, but id like a 120mm and 90mm option to leave on the camera when folded.
My guess is that any lens with a filter thread larger than 62mm may not work.
Thanks for your replies.
-Schaf

B.S.Kumar
25-May-2018, 18:27
The Horseman LF Topcor 4x5 90mm lens should fit. The Super ER 90mm will just cover the 4x5 format with the very corners vignetted. The Topcor 120mm has a published image circle of 160mm, so that too will just cover 4x5. The 90 is usually found in the Horseman 80mm boards with the integrated flash sync. The 120 is in a Seiko SLV shutter that has lens threads slightly different from regular 0 size shutters.

Kumar

tgtaylor
25-May-2018, 19:52
The Rodenstock 150mm Apo Sironar-S folds with the Toyo 45CF. Its a little longer FL than you mentioned but it has an almost identical field of view as my 120mm Nikkor SW amd 75mm Pentax 67 SMC.

Thomas

schafphoto
26-May-2018, 12:43
Yes, the 150 is a little long for my needs and I do need movements since I primarily photograph architecture so the Horseman is out. (I had a 105 Nikon once that would JUST cover 4x5 and that would fit and fold because it was tiny but not a good choice fo me personally).

Thanks for the input though, I really should have prefaced my question with my needs. My bad. Since this is a resource page, it's still good info. The Geronars may work as well but I'd be willing to pay more for extra IQ.

My Fuji 240A f/9 definitely folds into the CF. I believe that the Nikon W 135 f/5.6 may fold in as well, and perhaps the Fuji 125 f5.6. The older version F125 with the silver ring in the copal shutter seems to have a smaller front filter thread than the newer black ring F125 copal 0 mounted lenses, which seem to have a wider front ring. I'm not sure this matters since the Copal 0 shutter seems to be the deciding factor in the fold. So I believe if the front lens element diameter is smaller than the diameter of the copal 0, then it should work unless it sticks forward unusually far. I may be able to fix that with a recessed lens board as well if I find a short, long, narrow lens... if there is such a thing ;-)

I may be wrong.

-Schaf

schafphoto
27-May-2018, 12:40
Does anyone know if the bellows of the 45CF is identical to the 45A?
It seems to be a shorter bellows.

tgtaylor
29-May-2018, 15:11
According to the specs, the CF bellows if longer than the bellows on the AX and will accommodate a 400mm lens vs a 360. I also own the AX (same as the AII) which I assume is similar to the A.

Thomas

B.S.Kumar
29-May-2018, 15:30
The CF bellows are indeed longer at 356mm, vs. 324mm for the AII. I believe the CF cannot accept the extension backs that can be used with the other A models. The AX is the same as the AII, except that it has a reversible back, not a rotating back. It is the same difference between the A and the AR.

Kumar

schafphoto
1-Jun-2018, 17:02
As a reference I was checking the GG of the Toyo 45CF and it appears to have a stock GG sandwich of Ground-Glass on the outside Fresnel on the inside. Upon further examination it seems I may have a 9x12cm back, because it crops the 4x5 down to 9x12.

The back of the glass is shiny, there is a matte surface on the interior side which rests on the left and right 9cm sides (horizontal) on a machined aluminum surface (looks like two silver rails at the focal plane). Inboard of this matte glass is the ring-etched fresnel surface of the clear plastic fresnel lens. The fresnel is not as wide and stops just short of sitting on the aluminum rails at the focal plane. The polished-smooth side of the fresnel lens faces the inside of the bellows and lens. The Toyo View script on the bottom right of the fresnel reads correctly from behind the camera (through the matte GG). This two piece sandwich is held together by two deep black U-channels top and bottom.
Toyo GG
178872

178873 Toyo GG and 9x12 springback

The 12cm wide side of the Toyo Glass is 126.25mm and as near as I can measure the space it fits into between aluminum hard stops on the spring back is 127.5mm* ( I have a Cambo 4x5 GG and that is 125mm wide exactly and it fits onto the focal plane rails (which are 122.75mm apart). It will work in a pinch, if you aren't careful it could slide and fall into the space between the aluminum focal plane rails. But I will use it as a backup fo now- The Toyo GG did not work on the Cambo, it is 1mm to wide)
cambo GG
178874

I could believe if this 9x12cm GG is the same actual "glass" as the 4x5 springback with a different mount, back and channels and perhaps the u-channels at the top and bottom might not be so deep on the 4x5. Let me know if that's the case. I'm an old hand at Cambo but new to Toyo this month, except for the 8x10 G that I rarely use. I believe the Toyo and Horseman 4x5 and 5x7 GG are the same but I may be mistaken.

schafphoto
11-Jun-2018, 11:25
I just purchased a bellows for the CF from MAC group. They have one bellows for the 4x5 the Toyo field cameras:

BELLOWS ASSEMBLY (11802) FOR TOYO 45A/Aii/CF part number 16-B2504, are available for $190.80 + $10.00 shipping by UPS gound.
To order, please call
Parts Department
914-345-5414
Macgroup
75 Virginia Road
White Plains, NY 10603-1430

schafphoto
11-Jun-2018, 11:27
According to the specs, the CF bellows if longer than the bellows on the AX and will accommodate a 400mm lens vs a 360. I also own the AX (same as the AII) which I assume is similar to the A. Thomas

Do the specs say it can accommodate a 400mm or a 400mm Telephoto?

tgtaylor
11-Jun-2018, 11:54
The specs say that it will accomadate a 400mm lens but I never used beyond a 300 with it. The Fresnel was a option and after a year or so I installed a Fresnel out of a Toyo 45 C ordering the spacer set from MAC group. The 45C back is not interchangeable with other Toyo cameras ( so I can't use the Robos's revolving back with it as I can with the AX) and it won't crop a 4x5 negative.

Thomas

schafphoto
12-Jun-2018, 00:05
The specs say that it will accomadate a 400mm lens but I never used beyond a 300 with it. The Fresnel was a option and after a year or so I installed a Fresnel out of a Toyo 45 C ordering the spacer set from MAC group. The 45C back is not interchangeable with other Toyo cameras ( so I can't use the Robos's revolving back with it as I can with the AX) and it won't crop a 4x5 negative.

Thomas

I dug up a CF manual and it says 360mm max non-telephoto, but also has applicable telephoto lenses out to 500mm Tele Congo.

179310179311

schafphoto
22-Jun-2018, 12:07
I just purchased a bellows for the CF from MAC group.

Bellows arrived... note the special taper and the smaller ribs where the bellows tucks under and into the 45CF or 45 A body.
179661

179662

Lee_V
28-Sep-2018, 13:28
Has anyone heard of World Field 45F? It looks just like a Toyo 45A. I found this one on eBay. It came out of South Korea. I have searched the web and come up with nothing on them. It had a bad pinion shaft. I ordered a replacement for a 45A from MAC Group and it fits and works perfectly.
Just wondering if Toyo cameras were sold under a different name or where this camera came from?

182847182848182849182850

B.S.Kumar
28-Sep-2018, 16:57
Toyo view cameras were sold under the Omega brand name in the US for some time, but not the field cameras, to the best of my knowledge.
This camera may be a copy, just like the Penta (also out of South Korea) is/was a copy of the Wista 45N. The leatherette seems to have been applied rather clumsily, so it may actually be a Toyo 45A with a new covering.

Kumar

firstlightimaging
31-Oct-2018, 12:09
Just getting back into 4x5 after dabbling with one several decades ago in a studio and I'm near done building a fairly robust core kit based on a Toyo View 45A II. I ave 45 yearsof experience with small and medium (6x7) format film and digital both on the shooting and developing/printing end. Of course the moment I took the plunge for the camera itself I couldn't resist building out a full kit on both the shooting side and also upgrading on darkroom to support 4x5. It took me a long time to decide which camera (mostly for landscape work, but maybe for other things too)

LOVE LOVE LOVE the 45A II !

Mike

chassis
7-Nov-2018, 18:50
Welcome back Mike! The 45AII is a great camera. It works well in studio and field.

schafphoto
5-Jan-2019, 18:34
Just a FYI,

I was doing some measuring on my Toyo CF tonight.
With the Toyo CF, the front standard is about one inch away from the carbon fiber body when a 90mm (flat board) is focused at infinity. Plenty of room to get your fingers onto the front standard knobs... The maximum possible front rise from center/zero on the CF is 35mm rise normally but at 90mm (infinity) its limited to 20mm rise by the bellows contacting the CF body.

-Schaf

tgtaylor
6-Jan-2019, 09:44
I've been using a 90mm Grandagon on a flat lensboard with my cf and haven't noticed any rise limitation but if you are experiencing it just mount your lens on a recessed board. My 75mm Grandagon is mounted on a recessed board.

Besides a greater rise, the cf offers greater front shift than the AX/AII (28.5mm vs a measly 7mm) and a longer bellows (357mm vs 321mm). The MII offers 80mm shift and 90mm rise.

Thomas

schafphoto
30-Jan-2019, 10:23
Toyo CF. More measuring today.

Again the exposed part of my ground glass is 122.5mm x 92.5mm (edited) so I'm not sure that is showing me the entire 4x5 film area at 100% or if it is a 95% view.
But the question came up, what is the minimum size for a GG?

If I remove the 2 side metal clips (3-philips screws on each side) that hold the GG in place, I find the Toyo GG in my camera is mounted on the long ends. The GG itself is 126.5mm in the long dimension. I don't think you could mount an aftermarket GG shorter than 125.5 before it would fall into the hole.

nicemate1
30-Jan-2019, 10:52
Hello Shaf !

Thank you for your reply and for introducing me to this part of the Forum : )

In regards to the measurements of your GG, I don't quite understand the 192.5mm length... it seems a lot for a 4X5 camera.

However, after you write that your GG measures 126.5 on the long dimension, which sounds good for the purpose of using my GG which, luckily, is also 126.5 mm.
The short side of my GG, instead, measures 99.5mm so I wonder if it would be extended enough not to "fall in hole". Although you mention that your GG is resting on it's long side, it would be a bit annoying if also the short side would not rest on the frame. How much does the short side of your GG measure, at the end?

Thank you once again,

Pietro

I am


Toyo CF. More measuring today.

Again the exposed part of my ground glass is 122.5mm x 192.5mm so I'm not sure that is showing me the entire 4x5 film area at 100% or if it is a 95% view.
But the question came up, what is the minimum size for a GG?

If I remove the 2 side metal clips (3-philips screws on each side) that hold the GG in place, I find the Toyo GG in my camera is mounted on the long ends. The GG itself is 126.5mm in the long dimension. I don't think you could mount an aftermarket GG shorter than 125.5 before it would fall into the hole.

schafphoto
30-Jan-2019, 11:29
Yep, sorry it is 92.5mm between the masking clips when viewed.

I'm going to assume we are looking at the spring-back GG frame horizontally and the sides are short and the top and bottom are long. (I hope this makes sense)

The sides are the mounting points that the GG rests on.
The side mounting clips each have 3 Philips screws, total 6.
The top and bottom have 'masking' clips (or rails) that crate a smaller viewable frame by cropping into the GG, but are not part of the mounting scheme.
The top and bottom 'masking' clips are clipped to the glass
The top and bottom masking clips are removable and the result would be a bigger viewable image on the GG.

The GG extends under the top and bottom (when horizontal) masking-clips a couple millimeters so 99.5 may fit in the physical frame. If the short dimension of the replacement GG is larger than the metal Spring-back frame, the glass will not fit. If your GG is less than say, 94mm the masking clips may not fit, but your GG will not "fall in the hole" if it touches the 126.5 sides mount points.

I'm not at my studio, so I can't measure 'til next week. I didn't measure the short dimension of the GG because that would require removing the masking clips and I remember that being a pain to refit last time I did it. if I had to guess, add 1.5/2mm to the 92.5mm and the guess would be around 96mm. So the dimension you need to be worried about is if 99.5 will fit in the actual spring back frame without hitting anything top/bottom.

tgtaylor
31-Jan-2019, 09:55
Here's a view of the GG on the Robos from a product brochure:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7862/46025796565_4418f03207_o.jpg

Note the horizon and vertical scales in centimeters - 12 and a little over 9. The scales cover the rebate area of the film so what you see is exactly the picture area of the film.

Thomas

nicemate1
1-Feb-2019, 11:40
Hi Schaf! Got it. All clear.
So basically 99.5 of GG measurement, in it's shortest side, might be too big to fit perfectly in the Toyo 45CF Graflock back.
Many thanks for your kind help.
Pietro




Yep, sorry it is 92.5mm between the masking clips when viewed.

I'm going to assume we are looking at the spring-back GG frame horizontally and the sides are short and the top and bottom are long. (I hope this makes sense)

The sides are the mounting points that the GG rests on.
The side mounting clips each have 3 Philips screws, total 6.
The top and bottom have 'masking' clips (or rails) that crate a smaller viewable frame by cropping into the GG, but are not part of the mounting scheme.
The top and bottom 'masking' clips are clipped to the glass
The top and bottom masking clips are removable and the result would be a bigger viewable image on the GG.

The GG extends under the top and bottom (when horizontal) masking-clips a couple millimeters so 99.5 may fit in the physical frame. If the short dimension of the replacement GG is larger than the metal Spring-back frame, the glass will not fit. If your GG is less than say, 94mm the masking clips may not fit, but your GG will not "fall in the hole" if it touches the 126.5 sides mount points.

I'm not at my studio, so I can't measure 'til next week. I didn't measure the short dimension of the GG because that would require removing the masking clips and I remember that being a pain to refit last time I did it. if I had to guess, add 1.5/2mm to the 92.5mm and the guess would be around 96mm. So the dimension you need to be worried about is if 99.5 will fit in the actual spring back frame without hitting anything top/bottom.