210mm (8 1/4") f6.8 Wide Field Raptar Lens

[neil poulsen]

I recently purchased a 210mm f6.8 wide-field Raptar lens from a member (hazardgs), and I'd like to find out more about it. It's in barrel, and it's factory coated.

A Camera Eccentric, Wollensak catalog lists three wide-angle f6.8 Raptar lenses at focal lengths less then 5" as having 88.5 degree, 84 degree, and 88 degree image circles. (I noticed that the "extreme wide angle" f12.5 lenses less than 7" have similar coverages.) If my 210mm lens is the same design, then it could possibly have an image circle in the neighborhood of 378mm to 409mm. But, I don't see mention of a "wide-field" Raptar, nor any kind of 210mm "wide-angle" Raptar in the Camera Eccentric catalogs. Of course, there were Wollensak catalogs that are not included in the their archives.

Kingslake includes mention of a "wide-angle" Raptar as being a double-gauss, which makes sense, given the angles specified above.

Does anyone have knowledge of this particular lens?

Once I figure out some sort of lensboard, I can mount this lens on a camera and see what kind of image it projects.

[John Kasaian]

Have you tried holding it and projecting the image on a blank wall in a dark room (with a tape measure handy) to see what kind of coverage it will provide you?

[Dan Fromm]

Neil, count reflections. I wouldn't be surprised if you find two strong and two weak (possibly quite hard to see) from each cell.

I make this suggestion because some 210/6.8 Raptars have been reported to be dagor types.

If it is a 4/4 double Gauss type you'll see four strong and no weak reflections from each cell.

[neil poulsen]

Neil, count reflections. I wouldn't be surprised if you find two strong and two weak (possibly quite hard to see) from each cell.

I make this suggestion because some 210/6.8 Raptars have been reported to be dagor types.

If it is a 4/4 double Gauss type you'll see four strong and no weak reflections from each cell.


Dan,

Thanks for the suggestion. It looks like the former: two large strong, two small strong (just a little over half the diameter of the two large strong), and four faint, quite small reflections.

That may explain why it's labeled "wide-field" versus "wide-angle". Dagor types could be considered "wide-field".

I'm wondering, would Dagor types violate the Goerz patents, or had they expired?

[neil poulsen]

Have you tried holding it and projecting the image on a blank wall in a dark room (with a tape measure handy) to see what kind of coverage it will provide you?

I tried to do this. It appears to have a circle of illumination that could include an 8x10 negative. But given the circumstances, ambient light, etc., it's difficult to tell from the faint image. I'm going to mount it on an 8x10 using a matte board as a lensboard.

[Dan Fromm]

I'm wondering, would Dagor types violate the Goerz patents, or had they expired?

They'd expired long, long before Wollensak started using the Raptar trade name.

Come to think of it, a 210 that covers 8x10 has to cover 71 degrees. There are disputes about whether dagor types cover the often claimed 85 degrees there are indeed disputes about this. I don't want to reopen that discussion.] but very few dispute that they'll cover 70 degrees or so.

[neil poulsen]

It'll be interesting to see how much of that circle of illumination is sharp.

[Jim Galli]

Neil, I doubt you'd find it in the Wolly lens catalogs designed for photographers. It was likely advertised to the graphic arts trades in the mid 1960's to use on their photo reproduction machines. Sounds like a dagor type. If that is the case, 378 is probably a good number. That's what the 210 G-Claron will do at about 82 degrees. Don't correct me with the "Schnieder" literature. I've done the tests.

[Keith Fleming]

I have one I bought about 10 or so years ago from Dagor 77. I then had it mounted into an Alphax shutter by LensN2Shutter (who also installed an inscribed piece with the correct fstops on the shutter). Around the lens it reads "Wollensak 8 1/4 " (210mm) f6.8 Graphic Raptar Wide Field Lens." Dagor 77 bought a bunch of these when Wollensak closed down, and then, of course, sold them. The image circle is about 15 inches across. My understanding from Dagor 77's original ads was that the lens is a Reverse Dagor design. It takes 46mm filters, and I use a 46-52 step-up ring since I already had 52mm filters. I find the lens quite sharp, and have not had any problems with fall-off in sharpness. It's a small lens, and I found I preferred it to my (now sold) Calumet IIN 210mm lens. I have mounting flanges for the Alphax shutter on both my 4X5 and 8X10 cameras. There have been earlier threads on this forum about this lens, but I have not done a search.

Keith Fleming

[neil poulsen]

Keith,

You know, being wide-field, I was wondering if this might be a reverse Dagor on which the Angulon is based. The name on the inside of the barrel is exactly the same as you wrote above. Guess I left off the "Graphic". The Wollensak C-W coated logo follows the f6.8. Who knows, maybe this is also one that Dagor77 purchased? Makes me wonder what manner of creative prose might have accompanied it's sale. :)

Thanks for your post. There's not much doubt now about the nature of this lens.

[Vaughn]

Keith, I bought one from Dagor77 also. He sold several of them. Nicely covers 8x10, tho I do not have it in a shutter, which would be nice.

I have not used it much since getting a Fuji 250/6.7. A 210 and a 250 are a bit too close to make it worth me carrying both!

[neil poulsen]

I will likely mount this 210 lens in a shutter at some point. I have a 250mm f6.7 for 8x10 in a similar manner that I have a 121mm for 4x5. But, I also have a Fuji 105 SW for 4x5, and that extra few degrees can be just what I need for a particular scene. So, I like the idea of having both the 250mm and the 210 available.

[Vaughn]

I can easy use the 210 (w/o shutter) in the redwoods...and the little wider angle is nice, but out from under the redwoods with that big bright thing in the sky, the 250 in the shutter sure is nice. I also have a 210mm in shutter for the 5x7 -- but it will not hit the corners of the 8x10 (Computar 210/6.3).