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Randy
8-Jul-2015, 07:56
When contact printing, I am not particularly fond of that clear, unexposed area around my 8X10 negs - that border area that doesn't get exposed due to the way a sheet of film has to be held in it's film holder. If it was perfectly even and symmetrical, the same dimensions all the way around the neg, I probably could tolerate it.
Contact printing 8X10 negs onto 8X10 paper is no problem because the area can be covered when framed, but I am about to start coating my own paper for doing cyanotypes and very likely I will be leaving the border area of the print showing, brush strokes and such.
From my mind, the only way for that negative border area to not show up in the print is for me to cut it off with a razor knife.
Am I not thinking clearly about this?

Vaughn
8-Jul-2015, 08:14
Showing the film rebate (the area that remains unexposed) is a personal choice. However this is the first time I have heard of someone wanting to show their brush marks but not the rebate. If it is important for how you see your images, go for it! But you may find that the rebate sort of disappears when showing the brush strokes -- the rebate becomes a non-issue.

Cutting off the rebate is easily done. I have sliced 8x10 negs down to 4x10 (exposed two 4x10s images on an 8x10 sheet of film) with no problem.

Another avenue to explore would be film holders that do not cover the film (no rebate). They are rare, but there are holders out there that use an adhesive to hold the film in place (very flat) instead of the rails. Or perhaps glass plate holders could be adapted to hold film.

Mat5121
8-Jul-2015, 08:23
You could create a mask slightly smaller than the negative to prevent exposure through the rebate area.

Randy
8-Jul-2015, 08:39
I got this off the web (hope I don't get sued). This is kind of the look I am going for - I think the picture would be more pleasing without the notched rebate area (upper corners) showing.

http://static.photo.net/attachments/bboard/00S/00SXbV-111115584.jpg

Vaughn, if you look at the many cyanotype images on the web, there are a lot that are showing the brush marks outside the border of the image area. Not sure why, but I kind of like that.

koraks
8-Jul-2015, 09:22
Well, a possible solution is to do one exposure for the image itself including the border, and then mask the image area and expose the remainder. When done right, this will at least make the rebate and edges of the film much less apparent. The major drawback especially with cyanotype would be solarization occurring in the area that is exposed twice, but with a little bit of care in estimating the second exposure, this needn't be a big issue.

Jim Jones
8-Jul-2015, 10:23
You could cut a mask as large as the printing paper with an opening slightly larger than the film, and use lithographer's tape or any opaque tape to mount the film in the window.

koraks
8-Jul-2015, 10:58
That would leave the brush marks unexposed.

jp
8-Jul-2015, 11:11
Usually people who don't want film borders also don't want brush marks, so a border printed/taped on an acetate/mylar sheet is the usual answer.

Another option would be to fully mask it, print it, wash and dry it, then add some chemistry for brush marks, expose, wash, dry some more.

You also don't have to coat out to the borders either. A coated rectangle slightly smaller than the border can work if the negative isn't cropped too tight or doesn't need to be the normal rectangular shape.

Paul Metcalf
8-Jul-2015, 12:26
Rebate area shows that it is a full-frame contact print.

Sirius Glass
8-Jul-2015, 13:44
You can trim the boarder with a paper trimmer [http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/15509-REG/Dahle_508_508_Personal_Rolling_Trimmer.html] or cover it with a mat.

Randy
8-Jul-2015, 15:07
You also don't have to coat out to the borders either. A coated rectangle slightly smaller than the border can work if the negative isn't cropped too tight or doesn't need to be the normal rectangular shape.I think that is what I will try first. I think I have watched a few videos where they coat an area slightly smaller than the neg.

Bill Burk
8-Jul-2015, 21:39
You could double-burn... Make a blackout rectangle the size of the image you want to protect from the second burn.

Then you would make everything black on the print outside the blackout shape, which could be crisp, serrated, soft, shaped, decorated, double-lined... Any number of ideas.

Me personally? I like the look of the brush marks, the original film rebate and a step wedge. But I can imagine a thin border could be tastefully done.

Kimberly Anderson
8-Jul-2015, 22:10
I get that you want what you want...but after trying to get what you want, I predict that you will decide to change what you want and will want something else. I predict that the want that you will arrive at will include the rebate area.

Good luck. It'll be an interesting journey and you will probably learn a lot.

Barry Kirsten
9-Jul-2015, 00:25
Most people seem to do alt processes via an inkjet internegative, either to allow enlargement of the original or to safeguard their precious and irreplaceable camera negative. Scanning your original neg (if possible), cropping out the film holder rebates, then making the internegative would solve your problem and not stop you displaying brush marks if you want them.

brucep
9-Jul-2015, 02:28
If you print to maximum black (blue) then the clear rebate should print out the same colour as the area outside the negative.

koraks
9-Jul-2015, 04:15
If you print to maximum black (blue) then the clear rebate should print out the same colour as the area outside the negative.
In my experience, it doesn't though. It always remains faintly visible.

mdarnton
9-Jul-2015, 04:36
What about cropping slightly by making your own masking frame on the neg or paper using pinstriping tape? That would make a narrow white border to replace the "mess", exposing everything inside and outside of the line. http://www.amazon.com/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=3m+pinstriping+tape

matthew blais
9-Jul-2015, 07:53
I use a masking film and tape the edges of the neg to it to give a clean border on the paper around the image.
Brush strokes still show outside that

Randy
9-Jul-2015, 17:16
Matthew, very nice. I will give that a try as well. Thanks all for the suggestions.

Randy
10-Jul-2015, 09:04
Please don't tell him I am using his first name...

Vaughn
10-Jul-2015, 09:36
Just some examples I have posted before. Platinum/palladium prints, not cyanotypes, but this gives one the idea of what is easily possible.

All are 5x7 negs except the last one which is an 11x14.

If one does like the "tabs" that are on the top of the (vertical) images (see third image), one can scrap off the emulsion there with a blade. I could also have done the same to the third print on the lower right corner (slightly fogged rebate).

Randy
10-Jul-2015, 12:03
Those are great Vaughn. I can't wait to get started.

Bill Burk
10-Jul-2015, 17:09
I use a masking film and tape the edges of the neg to it to give a clean border on the paper around the image.
Brush strokes still show outside that

That gives a very nice wide white border... much better than the idea I was thinking of

Tin Can
10-Jul-2015, 17:23
Please don't tell him I am using his first name...

I must have missed a wise crack. :(