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PCC
4-Jul-2015, 12:15
I was very generously given the lens cells for a 150mm lens recently. All I need to buy to use this lens is a Copal #1 shutter and install the lens elements. Looking on eBay I can buy a complete lens with shutter for less money than just a plain shutter by itself. I don't get it. I don't want to buy a complete lens just to remove the elements to retrofit what I currently have. Why are plain shutters so expensive?

Bob Salomon
4-Jul-2015, 12:24
Most 150s Need a 0 shutter. Usually a 180 and 210 are in 1 size shutters. Which 150 do you have?
New shutters are no longer made and are used in a very small market so they are expensive.

ic-racer
4-Jul-2015, 12:51
I was very generously given...
Yes, as you have discovered, if you just need the shutter the lens cells alone are nearly worthless.

PCC
4-Jul-2015, 13:17
Most 150s Need a 0 shutter. Usually a 180 and 210 are in 1 size shutters. Which 150 do you have?
New shutters are no longer made and are used in a very small market so they are expensive.
It's a Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 150mm f/5.6 convertible. The threads for the front element and for the rear element are different and quite a bit larger than the threads of the #0 shutter that I have on another lens. S/N is 985XXXX.


Yes, as you have discovered, if you just need the shutter the lens cells alone are nearly worthless.
As I'm finding out. I guess I have this whole thing backwards since the lens makes the image and the shutter controls the exposure, I always thought the glass was the more valuable component here.

Fotoguy20d
4-Jul-2015, 13:19
what sort of lens is it. You might be able to get away with a Press copal shutter. They can be had much cheaper.

Dan

Dan Fromm
4-Jul-2015, 15:39
Be careful with Polaroid Copal press shutters. Some have restricted apertures that don't open as wide as the spec says they should. And the #1s that hold Tominon lenses for, e.g., the CU-5, have tubes that are longer than the #1 standard. I have no experience with Prontor press shutters for the Polaroid MP-3 system, have no idea how safe they are.

Be careful with Compur, Copal and Prontor press shutters. Their diaphragms are closer to the end of the rear tube than are cock-and-shoot Compur and Copals of the same size. If y'r lens' rear cell goes deep into the rear of the shutter this can be a serious problem. I have several lenses whose rear cells hit press shutters' diaphragms. You don't want that.

For the specs, see http://www.skgrimes.com/products/new-copal-shutters

Jim Noel
4-Jul-2015, 15:52
My Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 150mm f/5.6 convertible has been a standby for many years. It is mounted in a Rim Set Compur.

Bob Salomon
4-Jul-2015, 16:20
H
It's a Schneider Kreuznach Symmar 150mm f/5.6 convertible. The threads for the front element and for the rear element are different and quite a bit larger than the threads of the #0 shutter that I have on another lens. S/N is 985XXXX.


As I'm finding out. I guess I have this whole thing backwards since the lens makes the image and the shutter controls the exposure, I always thought the glass was the more valuable component here.
All modern shutters, 0, 1 and 3 sizes, have standard thread sizes as do all modern lenses. By modern in the past 40 odd years. If your lens has threads that are a different size then today's standard size threads then you would need to have adapters made to adapt your cells to fit a modern shutter. You might try to find a shutter contemporary to your lens. But don't forget, you need to have the proper spacing between the front and rear groups for the lens to perform to spec so you may also need shims and a way to determine, precisely, what the shim thickness would have to be.

Paul Ewins
4-Jul-2015, 18:16
A #1 shutter is correct for a 150 Symmar convertible. The later 150 Symmar-S was normally in a #0 shutter.

Andrew
5-Jul-2015, 00:26
stand alone shutters are expensive because OCD people like me want to mount loose lens cells they get given when someone else figures out it's more money than the final result is worth, and that that generates competition in the market
maybe keep the glass just in case someone offers you a shutter but, for such a common, lens it's probably better to be pragmatic and just walk away...

pdh
5-Jul-2015, 01:41
Or, as you have a pair of free cells, you could spend an afternoon experimenting to see if you can mount them in a tube of some sort, and make Waterhouse-style stops. The information about cell spacing is easily found and even if you can't get it to the exact 10th of a millimetre, you might still end up with a "fun lens" you can shutter with a lens cap.

Dan Fromm
5-Jul-2015, 07:38
Barrel lenses? Speed Graphic, anyone? Front-mounting, anyone?

PCC
5-Jul-2015, 07:53
Or, as you have a pair of free cells, you could spend an afternoon experimenting to see if you can mount them in a tube of some sort, and make Waterhouse-style stops. The information about cell spacing is easily found and even if you can't get it to the exact 10th of a millimetre, you might still end up with a "fun lens" you can shutter with a lens cap.
I just might pursue this. I have a small tabletop lathe in my garage and have made more ambitious things than this.

As for fine focusing, the thought had occurred to me that I can probably make a back for my Toyo View camera to allow me to attach my DSLR to it. I should be able to see the results of minor adjustments fairly quickly to fine tune the front to rear element spacing.

Dan Fromm
5-Jul-2015, 08:53
I just might pursue this. I have a small tabletop lathe in my garage and have made more ambitious things than this.

As for fine focusing, the thought had occurred to me that I can probably make a back for my Toyo View camera to allow me to attach my DSLR to it. I should be able to see the results of minor adjustments fairly quickly to fine tune the front to rear element spacing.

There's no need to guess about cell spacing. Just make a tube that matches the standard. Clicking on the link in post #6 will take you to the standard. Hint: for #0 and #1 shutters, tube length is 20.00 mm. Cut the slit for Waterhouse stops where the standard (look at it!) says the shutter is.

pdh
5-Jul-2015, 09:15
Hint: for #0 and #1 shutters, tube length is 20.00 mm.

see, I said it was easily found ;)

IanG
5-Jul-2015, 09:58
It's easy finding good #0 and #1 shutters, but you'd be better looking for Compur (rimset) rather than Copal shutters. It does require patience though and you can find them at reasonable prices. I did buy a Copal #1 with just the front cell from an f9 300mm APO Ronar earlier this year, I'll make a new aperture scale to use it with my 200mm f6.3 Osaka (Tessar type) lens cells.

Over the past 8 or 9 years I've bought quite a few lens cell sets, mostly from this Forum, 150mm f4.5 CZJ Tessar, 150mm f6.3 Geronar. 210mm f6.8 Geronar, the 200mm f6.3 Osaka, a 150,, f9 G-Claron and have been able to find shutters for all these lens sets and still have spare shutters.

Some shutters are harder to find but so far I've managed to get what I need and in fact have spares just in case needed, for me it's US shutters that are the biggest problem as few were imported/sold in Europe. Today I acquired two new Compur-Rapid #00 shutters with blank aperture scales, ideal if I have problems withn the Compur #00 with my 65mm Super Angulon.

Ian

PCC
10-Jul-2015, 22:04
No luck with rim set Compurs, but, I picked up a Copal #1 for $130 shipped. Not a great deal but cheaper than the $200+ that they are normally listed for these days.