Problem mounting Copal 3 lens on Linhof Technika lensboard

[axs810]

Two of my lenses were difficult to mount. One of them, my 16 inch Artar, I was able to mount onto the lensboard but I had to put it on very tightly and I'm not quite sure it's on there as good as I think it is...my other lens that I am trying to mount, my Fujinon W 300mm f/5.6, is not wanting to mount or stay on at all. Once I screw the lens onto the lensboard and tighten down the retaining ring there is always some wiggle room left. It's like I am missing a retaining ring or something... Has anyone else run into this problem? If so what did you end up having to do? Are there any quick and cheap solutions?

[Bill_1856]

I bought a "top hat" lensboard from eBay (China/Japan?) which allowed the Copal #3 to fit. About 50 bucks, I think.

[Jim Andrada]

I just want to be sure you're talking about a problem with the way the lens/shutter mounts to the board, not about possible interference of the shutter with the front standard. I have several lenses in large shutters and often have to use a little rise (or a top hat board) to get the shutter to clear the bottom of the front standard, but I've never had an issue with the lens/shutter mounting flat and tight to the lens board EXCEPT if there was a small pin in the back of the shutter that would engage in a small hole in the lens board to prevent rotation. In this case I just removed the pin and all was well.

[axs810]

I bought a "top hat" lensboard from eBay (China/Japan?) which allowed the Copal #3 to fit. About 50 bucks, I think.

Would you be able to link me to what it is you are talking about? I can't find anything for Copal 3 shutters




I just want to be sure you're talking about a problem with the way the lens/shutter mounts to the board, not about possible interference of the shutter with the front standard. I have several lenses in large shutters and often have to use a little rise (or a top hat board) to get the shutter to clear the bottom of the front standard, but I've never had an issue with the lens/shutter mounting flat and tight to the lens board EXCEPT if there was a small pin in the back of the shutter that would engage in a small hole in the lens board to prevent rotation. In this case I just removed the pin and all was well.


There is nothing intruding on the mount it just seems like the lensboard is just not screwing on all the way (aka: not grabbing enough threads to stay on tightly) so I'm not sure if I am just accidentally doing something wrong or if I am missing a "top hat" piece? If I am missing or need a top hat piece can anyone point me to where I can buy one?

[Jim Andrada]

Can you make a photo of what is happening? There should be plenty of thread coming through the lens board for you to put the retaining ring on.

Let me confirm something else - do these lenses mount by a retaining ring from the back of the board, or is there a flange on the front of the board that they screw into? My Copal 3's have enough thread that there should be almost 1/4 inch of thread sticking out the back of the board for the retaining ring to screw onto. I think some of the Copal 3's have a spacer ring that can be used to extend them about 1/4 inch forward of the lens board. I believe the spacer was standard but it's missing from a lot of shutters.

Anyhow, what you're describing doesn't sound right, so a photo (even an iPhone photo) would be a big help in figuring out what's wrong.

In any case, the lens board itself does not screw onto the shutter - the hole needs to be big enough that the threaded portion of the shutter can pass completely through the board and a retaining ring can be screwed on to the back.

[Andrew]

There is indeed a spacer ring that's about 6.5mm wide that goes between the shutter body and the board to hold the shutter slightly forward so you can get at the control levers more easily and have them further away from the front standard components so there's less fouling. If you don't have it, you won't get the shutter snug on a thin board like a technika type board though it ought to be ok on a thicker board like a wooden deardorff board

look at the side view of the Copal 3 with spacer in this and see if it looks like what you've got [or not got?]

[SergeiR]

You need to use use reverse version of recessed board. There are plenty of those around on auction site. Also will help a bit with bellows draw ;)

[Paul Metcalf]

"There is nothing intruding on the mount it just seems like the lensboard is just not screwing on all the way (aka: not grabbing enough threads to stay on tightly)"

Shutters don't screw into the technika lensboards. They are a compression-fit using the copal's retaining ring. The shutter threads should just fit into the hole and then the retaining ring screws on from the back side and the lens is held in place with the compression from the ring (and then the rear element is screwed back onto the shutter as it needs to be removed to put the lens onto the board). There are 0, 1, 2 and 3 technika lensboards, each with a hole that matches the respective Copal shutter, as well as the recessed lensboard for use with wide angle lenses.

[Michael Graves]

If it's a 3s, there is a ring that goes onto it. I don't know about the 3. I was able to mount my Fujinon 300W 5.6 onto a Linhoff board, but it did require the ring. I'm not to anxious to take it off to see how I did it, though. It was quite a chore.

[Bill_1856]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-10mm-15mm-extension-Lens-board-COPAL-3-or-pick-1-0-for-LINHOF-wista-/140939017757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d09ebe1d

[Paul Metcalf]

I'm confused as to what the OP's problem is. Sounds to me like he's trying to screw a copal 3 shutter into a copal 2 lensboard instead of using the jam nut on an appropriate copal 3-board.

[Jim Andrada]

Yes, I'm confused as well.

I have a funny feeling the OP may be confused as well.

[axs810]

Here I'll just post photos to show whats going on since I can't explain it well enough

The Artar lens mounts onto the Linhof lensboard but doesn't feel very tight or secure...


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[Tin Can]

Looks all good as you have the spacer, but did you use a spanner to tighten it up, which requires a fair twist by hand?

[axs810]

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My Fujinon W 300mm f/5.6 lens doesn't mount snug to the Linhof lensboard....I can see how this one would need an extension lensboard but it confuses me as to why Copal 3 shutters don't come with the correct spacer ring? One lens seemed to come with the correct spacer ring while my other lens didnt...

Now I have to spend another $40-50 on another lensboard? :confused:



edit/ In case it isn't clear the 3rd photo shows the gap between the lens, lensboard, and spacer ring

[axs810]

Looks all good as you have the spacer, but did you use a spanner to tighten it up, which requires a fair twist by hand?



I didn't use a spanner wrench but I have one on the way

[axs810]

Would either of these be what I need?

1) http://www.ebay.com/itm/Adjustable-10mm-15mm-extension-Lens-board-COPAL-3-or-pick-1-0-for-LINHOF-wista-/140939017757?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20d09ebe1d


2) http://www.ebay.com/itm/141108137317?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Doremus Scudder]

My Fujinon W 300mm f/5.6 lens doesn't mount snug to the Linhof lensboard....I can see how this one would need an extension lensboard but it confuses me as to why Copal 3 shutters don't come with the correct spacer ring? One lens seemed to come with the correct spacer ring while my other lens didnt...

Now I have to spend another $40-50 on another lensboard? :confused:

edit/ In case it isn't clear the 3rd photo shows the gap between the lens, lensboard, and spacer ring

If everything else is correct, but it just seems as if the lensboard is too thin, simply make a spacer ring out of plastic, Masonite, whatever, as long as it's the right thickness, and install it. I like to install spacers between the shutter and the board, not between the ring nut and the board, since it spaces the shutter away from the board a bit and gives it a bit of breathing room. Remember, it's not rocket science, just make it work somehow.

Also, make sure you're installing the retaining ring correctly. Many have a small lip that fits inside the hole and protects the threads on the shutter barrel.

And you should know that getting an extended lensboard won't necessarily solve your problem. It seems to me that the thickness of the board itself is your problem; an extended board is used to gain extra bellows extension or to space the lens away from the front standard when there's a collision. They aren't necessarily any thicker.

Best,

Doremus

[Paul Metcalf]

Don't recognize the jam nut on the artar lens, but I think the jam nut on the fujinon is upside down (backwards). The flat surface should go against the lens board, and yes a spanner wrench helps tremendously with these jam nuts.
BTW, nice lenses. Are you using these on 4x5? You'll be able to use every inch of rise and shift and full tilts with those lenses!

[Jim Andrada]

I think they all originally came with the spacer ring, but if the lens is used on a wooden lensboard a lot of times the spacer ring gets separated from the shutter and gets lost so the ring is missing on a lot of shutters that we buy used.

Frankly, when I don't have a spacer I often just turn the threaded ring around so the flat side is against the lensboard and tighten it well - works fine. The hole is a little bit bigger than the threaded part of the shutter so it's a little bit of a sloppy fit in the hole, but so what? No big deal.

[axs810]

If everything else is correct, but it just seems as if the lensboard is too thin, simply make a spacer ring out of plastic, Masonite, whatever, as long as it's the right thickness, and install it. I like to install spacers between the shutter and the board, not between the ring nut and the board, since it spaces the shutter away from the board a bit and gives it a bit of breathing room. Remember, it's not rocket science, just make it work somehow.

Also, make sure you're installing the retaining ring correctly. Many have a small lip that fits inside the hole and protects the threads on the shutter barrel.

And you should know that getting an extended lensboard won't necessarily solve your problem. It seems to me that the thickness of the board itself is your problem; an extended board is used to gain extra bellows extension or to space the lens away from the front standard when there's a collision. They aren't necessarily any thicker.

Best,

Doremus


I know the thickness of the board is what is causing me to have problems but I was wondering if I would be able to have a quick fix by just purchasing an extended lensboard to act in place of a spacer?

[axs810]

Don't recognize the jam nut on the artar lens, but I think the jam nut on the fujinon is upside down (backwards). The flat surface should go against the lens board, and yes a spanner wrench helps tremendously with these jam nuts.
BTW, nice lenses. Are you using these on 4x5? You'll be able to use every inch of rise and shift and full tilts with those lenses!


For the Fujinon lens - I flipped it so the flat side is facing the lensboard but now that makes it so I can't use a spanner wrench to tighten it down. :confused: but the lens is on there snug now


Thanks lol...I'm using these on 8x10 and 4x5. My 8x10 is getting some work done right now though so I'm trying to hurry and get all my lenses onto Linhof lensboards so I can shoot 4x5...I'm also trying to hurry because I might be joining a few people camping next week and I'd love to bring a LF camera with me.

[Andrew]

glad you seem to have got the Fuji sorted

I don't think an extension board will do anything for you [unless the bulk of the rear element is stopping movements in which case you "might" get a little more wiggle room if the extension is long enough]

[Paul Metcalf]

You should still be able to get enough bite in the slots on the jam nut even with it up against the board, doesn't take much past what you get from hand tightening, just a fraction of a degree will really provide holding power. Just go slow and give a measured amount of force so as not to have the spanner wrench slip and gouge the board or anything else. Have fun on the camping trip.