90mm Caltar/Grandagon on a Calumet 4x5 - Lensboard?

[Kirks518]

I'm looking at getting a 90mm for my Calumet 4x5 CC401 (I believe). Will I need a recessed lensboard for it? And would I need a different bellows to get full movements? I'm reading conflicting info, and I'm confused... :confused:

[Jon Shiu]

With a flat board and focused at infinity, the standards will almost be touching ~1/4". You can focus at infinity and get a small amount of rise/tilt/swing, but since the standards are very close to each other, only limited amount of movement. The bellows are fixed in place.

Edit: the recessed boards are readily available on ebay, or keh.com might have one.

Jon

[Kuzano]

I believe the confusion may come from the two models of Calumet. I think the CC401 is for wide angle lenses. If so, you will see that the metal part of the standards are reversed from the chrome on the rear standards. Furthermore, If the CC401 is the wide angle model, the bellows is somewhat floppy, because the bellows was manufactured without stiffeners in the folds. This was to simulate a "bag" bellows in operation. It was not very successful as such. The reversal of the front standards and the non-stiffener folds in the bellows plus the rearward placement of the lens board in the front standard allowed for a short distance between the focus screen and rear element of the lens.

I had two of the CC401's and while they allowed relatively close positioning of the standards, 90mm movements are a real rarity. My recollection is that the CC401 had the bellows permanently affixed, which is the reason for the unusually sloppy looking bellows in the first place. It's intentional.

That's not uncommon however on most view camera's and generally a 90mm lens, to achieve movements, requires a recessed lens board. I think you will have a tough time finding a recessed lens board for that old Calumet. I'd say you are probably going to be shooting your 90 pretty much without movements.

However with most 90's your image circle may not really cover much in the way of movements.

[Kirks518]

Thanks Kuzano.

It's really a guess that it's the CC401. The only label/markings are on the front standard, and it just says 'Calumet Camera 4x5'.

Can anyone tell which I have?

136089

136090

136091

[Jon Shiu]

The CC400 is the standard model with 16" bellows, the CC401 is the longer 22" bellows model. The CC402 is the short 7" bellows model. http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/calumet_2.html

Jon

[Kirks518]

So based on what i understand Kuzano is saying, my camera is technically designed to handle the 90mm, but realistically has limitations.

And, in Jon's link, the recessed lensboard is recommended.

I think I'll give it a go.

[BrianShaw]

Also, don't the standards curve "toward each other" in the wide-angle version to get the standards closer rather than curving in the same direction as each other as shown in the pictures above.

EDIT: Ooops... Kuzano already mentioned this. Sorry.

[Dan Fromm]

I believe the confusion may come from the two models of Calumet. I think the CC401 is for wide angle lenses.

<snip>

However with most 90's your image circle may not really cover much in the way of movements.

CC-402 for short lenses. See http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/calumet_2.html. The standards aren't reversed.

I think the OP's lens covers 221 mm. You might be thinking of 90/6.8 Angulons and Wollensaks, which have barely cover 4x5.

Moving a CC-401's tripod mounting block from between the standards (unscrew an end cap, run a standard off the rail, remove tripod mounting block, replace standard, tripod mounting block and end cap) may make using a short lens easier.

[mdarnton]

Another question is whether the lens will fit on a recessed board. My Graflex View II recessed board, which is the same exterior size as the Calumet, won't take a modern lens in a larger shutter than the 90/6.8 Raptar/Optar it was made for, with one or two exceptions (I have a 108mm Raptar in a Betax shutter that fits OK) and still give room to operate controls or add a cable release. I'm pretty sure my 90/5.6 SA won't fit, for instance.

[BrianShaw]

CC-402 for short lenses. See http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/calumet_2.html. The standards aren't reversed.
...

Pages 8 and 9 show that they are, Dan. Maybe we aren't describing it correctly...

[Dan Fromm]

Pages 8 and 9 show that they are, Dan. Maybe we aren't describing it correctly...


The entire front of the camera is recessed.

[BrianShaw]

Ahh, I now see of what you write.

But the supports for the front standard still looks reversed to me, presumably to additionally help the two standards get closer together. Maybe it is my dyslexia acting up again. :o

[Kirks518]

Just to give any future searches a 'definitive' answer to this, I took a few test shots today on a regular flat lensboard, and the rail was not in the image. So, in the case of the Calumet CC401, no, you do not need a recessed lensboard when using a 90mm lens. At least not with the Caltar IIN 6.8 (aka Rodenstock Grandagon).