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Robert Kalman
28-Jun-2015, 14:27
Over the years I've refined transporting my 4x5 on planes so that it is fairly simple:
> 4x5 Ebony and two lenses in a Domke backpack that easily fits under the seat
> Boxes of film in a LowePro roller case that easily fits in the overhead bin
> Tripod rides in a Lighware case that goes as checked baggage. Twenty-five film holders ride inside the Lightware case, as well.

I'm wondering how any of you transport 8x10 gear on planes, since my 4x5 set up isn't going to work with 8x10 I'm afraid.

Many thanks!

DG 3313
28-Jun-2015, 14:38
Just curious...... which 2 4x5 lensed do you fly with when traveling? I have a trip coming up and I'm thinking of taking my field camera........

Robert Kalman
28-Jun-2015, 14:41
Just curious...... which 2 4x5 lensed do you fly with when traveling? I have a trip coming up and I'm thinking of taking my field camera........

A 210mm Schneider and a 12 inch Kodak Commercial Ektar

DG 3313
28-Jun-2015, 15:06
I think I'll take one long and one wide lens (300mm, 75mm) on this trip .... My idea of traveling with 8x10 is close to home....or into the living room.......

Luis-F-S
28-Jun-2015, 15:22
I'm more curious as to how TSA handles carry on 8x10 film in boxes or holders these days. L

vinny
28-Jun-2015, 15:48
Pelican cases.

John Jarosz
28-Jun-2015, 15:59
I've never flown with 8x10 and, sadly, never will. It's too risky for the expense of lost film if you run up against a TSA guy who's going to save the world. All it takes is one pass thru the x-ray where they see something they don't understand and they're gonna open it up. Even if you eventually prevail, you also run the risk of missing your flight.

It's just not worth it for me. Sorry to be a curmudgeon.

John

karl french
28-Jun-2015, 16:11
I used to do it all the time between 2003-2006.
Camera and 4 (Fuji 300/450/600 trio and a small 210) lenses in a Lower Photo Trekker AW. 6 film holders and a box or two of film in a book bag as carry on.
Tripod and changing tent in checked bags.

pierre506
28-Jun-2015, 16:52
I went to Iran two years ago with my 8x10 system.
Boxes films (B&W, color) in anti-Xray bags, empty boxes for future shooted films, changing tent, Gitzo 5542 tripod and Arca ball head in checked case.
Deardorff 8x10, Steinheil 185mm protar and Spencer 11.5in lens with Sinar shutter, Nikon T-800 lens, Pentax digital spot meter, focusing lupe, two shutter releases and some filters in a backpack.
Everything went smoothly and manual checking, but finally a gunman in Tehran airport pointed the films in anti-Xray boxes to ask me to throw them into the Xray machine when I left Iran.
No way to refuse and heartbroken~

jp
28-Jun-2015, 17:23
If the destination is within the US, send it USPS "general delivery" to a post office near your destination.

Robert Kalman
28-Jun-2015, 17:41
If the destination is within the US, send it USPS "general delivery" to a post office near your destination.

Hmm...hadn't thought of that. Great idea!

Paul Metcalf
28-Jun-2015, 19:09
Just got back from lake superior flying to Duluth through Minneapolis on delta. Carried on a wista 8x10 in an f/64 backpack along with a box of unexposed film, three lenses, light meter, dark cloth, filters and rings, etc accoutrements. That bag fits in all overheads including the CRJ into/out of Duluth. In a filson canvas tote I carried 4 film holders in protective cases (cardboard USPS mailing boxes, perfect size for holders) and an empty film box for exposed film, bag fits under seat. In one of my checked bags I put my bogan reporter tripod with 410 head and film changing tent. I used to use a pelican case but the 50-lb bag restriction ended that. I've traveled this way now for 10 years, not a single issue with security or scanning or whatever. Only the ocassional "is that a camera?" question.

Luis-F-S
28-Jun-2015, 21:37
I've traveled this way now for 10 years, not a single issue with security or scanning or whatever. Only the ocassional "is that a camera?" question.

Paul, do you have them hand search the film or run it through the x-ray? L

Paul Metcalf
29-Jun-2015, 06:07
Run it through the x-ray, no issues. I use Ilford FP4+ (ASA 125), but I've also had Tmax, Velvia, Provia and E100S x-rayed in the past. The x-ray machines (at least US, can't vouch for international) at the security check points are low power. The x-rays used for scanning baggage are significantly more powerful and could fog film if not in an x-ray-proof box, and then if it triggers an alarm a hand inspection might very well end up with an opened film box because you aren't there to vouch/plead/explain what's in the box. So I never check my film.

This is my experience, so that's all that can be drawn from this. And this is all US travel I'm talking about. Paul

Pete Roody
29-Jun-2015, 06:14
Robert,

Flying in the US is not bad with 8x10. I like to carry on the camera, film, lenses, a few holders, tripod head and meter at a minimum. I use the backpack (Tenba huge) that I carry the camera with when I shoot as a carry on. I check my tripod, extra holders and changing bag with my luggage. Most US airlines allow a fairly large carry-on.

If you are flying out of the country then check with the airline as they may have more restrictive rules for carry on luggage.

djdister
29-Jun-2015, 06:44
On recent US and overseas trips - kept the film (120, 4x5, color and B&W) in my carryon bag (not in one of those lead lined bags), they ran it through the carryon bag scanner in both directions, no detectable fogging at all. Checked baggage gets high dosage scanning - not good for film, and film in lead lined bags invites further scrutiny in either case.

David Schaller
30-Jun-2015, 12:36
I just took MF to Scotland. I had the film hand checked at Logan on the way out, no problem. Then I sent the exposed film home by DHL, and I don't see any problems with fogging--but I haven't printed from it yet.

Rayt
30-Jun-2015, 21:33
I don't have a problem flying with LF as long as the carry on case is within airline specs. Just don't draw any attention to the contents by requesting hand inspection for your film. Just let the film boxes go through the x-ray.

axs810
1-Jul-2015, 01:55
The last time I flew with film equipment I asked for them to hand inspect my film. I made sure to keep it in a separate ziplock baggy so I could hand it to them on the side while I went through the metal detector. Just be polite and you shouldn't run into problems.

Robert Kalman
1-Jul-2015, 17:43
Just got back from lake superior flying to Duluth through Minneapolis on delta. Carried on a wista 8x10 in an f/64 backpack along with a box of unexposed film, three lenses, light meter, dark cloth, filters and rings, etc accoutrements. That bag fits in all overheads including the CRJ into/out of Duluth. In a filson canvas tote I carried 4 film holders in protective cases (cardboard USPS mailing boxes, perfect size for holders) and an empty film box for exposed film, bag fits under seat. In one of my checked bags I put my bogan reporter tripod with 410 head and film changing tent. I used to use a pelican case but the 50-lb bag restriction ended that. I've traveled this way now for 10 years, not a single issue with security or scanning or whatever. Only the ocassional "is that a camera?" question.

PM'd a question about which Filson tote.

HMG
2-Jul-2015, 17:13
If the destination is within the US, send it USPS "general delivery" to a post office near your destination.

The terminology I've used is "Hold for pickup". As in:
Harris Goldstein
Hold for Pickup
Merrifield, MN

I will often give the PO a call if not picking it up within a week; though I think they're supposed to hold it for 14 days.

axs810
2-Jul-2015, 19:48
If the destination is within the US, send it USPS "general delivery" to a post office near your destination.



How do you package your gear if you send it this way and how much does it cost? (I've never heard of doing it this way)

StoneNYC
2-Jul-2015, 21:38
How do you package your gear if you send it this way and how much does it cost? (I've never heard of doing it this way)

Depends on the size, I sent my entire hiking gear setup, 80-100lbs of food and camping gear in a big giant heavy brown box, cost about $100

Stone
C/O General Delivery
Grand Canyon, AZ 86023

To obviously the Grand Canyon, shipped priority, probably less if shipped slower.

They will hold it for 30 days before sending it back.

I just decided to check, I have the box still as I sent it back as well.

136264

Now I just use the box to store the gear and kind of as a memento. But mostly because it's a nice size box to hold additional gear.

It's 20"x20"x20" but I know that's not always helpful, so to give you an idea of scale...

136265

Hope that's helpful.

axs810
3-Jul-2015, 00:28
Oh awesome! I didn't realize you just pack it up like a regular priority mail package and send it off. That makes it pretty easy! Thanks for showing me how it's done StoneNYC :D

Robert Kalman
3-Jul-2015, 14:16
Depends on the size, I sent my entire hiking gear setup, 80-100lbs of food and camping gear in a big giant heavy brown box, cost about $100

Stone
C/O General Delivery
Grand Canyon, AZ 86023

To obviously the Grand Canyon, shipped priority, probably less if shipped slower.

They will hold it for 30 days before sending it back.

I just decided to check, I have the box still as I sent it back as well.

136264

Now I just use the box to store the gear and kind of as a memento. But mostly because it's a nice size box to hold additional gear.

It's 20"x20"x20" but I know that's not always helpful, so to give you an idea of scale...

136265

Hope that's helpful.

Stone,

You sent all of your 8x10 gear across the country...was it insured?

StoneNYC
3-Jul-2015, 14:41
Stone,

You sent all of your 8x10 gear across the country...was it insured?

No this was my my camping equipment for hiking the Grand Canyon for 8 days, BUT it's the same process, I don't remember if it was insured but probably. It was 2010 for that box because I wasn't traveling straight there and was shooting Kodachrome around the country and only needed the camping gear for the Grand Canyon portion of the trip. When I went back in 2013 I went with my GF and we were traveling straight there so shipping the box wasn't necessary and was using only 120.

The demonstration was about the simplicity of "general delivery" to a local post office and picking it up when you get there. The price of shipping has probably gone up, but this is a HUGE box, you probably don't need this size to ship just your 8x10.

Larry Kellogg
6-Jul-2015, 12:13
I just flew back through Paris. It took quite a bit of explaining to get them to hand check my film, just fifty rolls of 35mm, including Delta 3200. The young worker did not seem to know anything about film. It was easy to get the film hand checked on the way out at Kennedy.

My whole 5x7 kit fits nicely into an fStop Tilopa BC backpack which fits in the overhead compartments on international flights. 8x10 won't fit I'm afraid.

jp
6-Jul-2015, 14:37
How do you package your gear if you send it this way and how much does it cost? (I've never heard of doing it this way)

I put my 8x10 gear in a 2nd hand pelican case and put a zip tie through the padlock circle just for basic mechanical security. (I'm sure an actual lock would invite needless scrutiny)
Address label was stickered to the plastic, and over the counter it went to the postman. Cost is based on weight/size/shipping speed choices with parcel post being most affordable and slow.

axs810
7-Jul-2015, 03:31
Did you get any trouble or delay from the postman since your 8x10 gear was in a pelican case and not a brown box like StoneNYC's?

Pete Roody
7-Jul-2015, 06:59
For 8x10 I would still carry on my equipment and film. For US flights my backpack fits the overhead bins. I carry the film in a separate bag so it doesn't sit in the xray machine while they are trying to figure out what my camera is. I check the tripod and extra film holders (my backpack holds 3 holders). I even carry on my tripod head. If the loose my checked bag I can still shoot because most places I can get a tripod. Another way to carry-on an 8x10 system would be to use a wheeled pilots/catalog case. These are made even to international carry-on standards and will hold 8x10 gear.

Shipping camping gear is one thing since you could replace it.

For bigger cameras (ulf) you are forced to ship ahead or to check the camera. I do want to travel to the west someday with my 14x20. I have a padded case for the 14x20 and holders that I could check. I doubt anyone would steal or even know what they were looking at when they scan the bags. I could carry-on my lenses in a bag but even film is not easy to carry on when it is big. So I would probably mail my film ahead to be safe. And since i would be paying for the extra checked bags, I probably would ship the camera too.

If you are traveling to a hotel the first night I would assume you could ship your gear to the hotel directly.

Robert Kalman
8-Jul-2015, 12:16
For 8x10 I would still carry on my equipment and film. For US flights my backpack fits the overhead bins. I carry the film in a separate bag so it doesn't sit in the xray machine while they are trying to figure out what my camera is. I check the tripod and extra film holders (my backpack holds 3 holders). I even carry on my tripod head. If the loose my checked bag I can still shoot because most places I can get a tripod. Another way to carry-on an 8x10 system would be to use a wheeled pilots/catalog case. These are made even to international carry-on standards and will hold 8x10 gear.

Pete,

The pilots/catalog case is a great idea. I just did a check and there are nearly two dozen to choose from. Do you have one to recommend?

dhirsch
26-Jul-2015, 03:39
I carry my 8x10" in an Airport Accelerator Backpack which fits in the overhead bin. Three holders, two or three boxes of film, light meter and accessories. Two lenses and a tripod are going in my checked luggage. Film gets x-rayed every time, never had any problem.

BradS
26-Jul-2015, 07:14
When I have travelled with 8x10, the camera and lenses (just two lenses) went in a pelican case with a zip tie through the padlock hole (like JP above). The pelican case can go by UPS, FedEx or regular mail just as is...the P.O. is quite used to seeing these in fact. The pelican case can also fly with me as checked baggage.

I always keep the film with me in a carry-on bag. I've come to the conclusion that it is far safer to simply let the film run through the carry on baggage scanner machine without making a fuss about it. If you ask for a physical inspection of sheet film these days, they almost always want to "open the box and look inside. Rarely, will you find an agent that "gets it".

StoneNYC
26-Jul-2015, 07:20
I would just carry all Fuji Acros100, my guess is the sheet film package is so dark you could open it in daylight. I once held it up to the sun and couldn't see through it... It's probably light proof without the box. I haven't tested the theory yet, but I think I'm going to soon.

BradS
26-Jul-2015, 07:30
Stone,
We could go on for hours talking about how to carry sheet film on a plane...There are many here who've done many times...I actually used to ask for a physical inspection...once even got a TSA agent who took me, my film and changing bag aside to a little room and did it 'right'. He was excited and told me they were trained using a dark bag...that was a rare case. I get tired of the hassle. Simple fact is, the machine they put carry-on bags through has never harmed any film of mine...and I have let lots of film go through them now. So, I just avoid the whole issue and reduce the risk of film getting damaged. I just put it through the machine without saying anything about it. Never a problem this way.

StoneNYC
26-Jul-2015, 08:17
Stone,
We could go on for hours talking about how to carry sheet film on a plane...There are many here who've done many times...I actually used to ask for a physical inspection...once even got a TSA agent who took me, my film and changing bag aside to a little room and did it 'right'. He was excited and told me they were trained using a dark bag...that was a rare case. I get tired of the hassle. Simple fact is, the machine they put carry-on bags through has never harmed any film of mine...and I have let lots of film go through them now. So, I just avoid the whole issue and reduce the risk of film getting damaged. I just put it through the machine without saying anything about it. Never a problem this way.

I've also had that experience, however I've also had an experience where my Kodachrome 64 that's right 64 ASA SPEED film got hit with x-rays and fogged (actually stripes in a pattern).

This was in 2010, not ages ago, and I just don't trust x-ray anymore.

We each have our own method, hopefully it works for us.

Drew Bedo
28-Jul-2015, 06:34
My TSA story: In 2012 we went to Rocky Mountain National Park. I brought two boxes of Velvia 100 and a 50 sheet box of Tri-X 320. At security screening I asked for a hand check of the Tri-X. They took it away while I waited. It came back with the factory seals broken (well—OK). When I loaded the film,I found that the inside package had also been opened. I loaded a few holders and shot them. At home, all were fogged.


This summer I flew to Portland to visit a college friend, then flew to Seattle to meet my family for a cruse. Every time we re-boarded the ship, all carry on items were x-rayed too. I hadn't expected that. Overall, the film was x-rayed five or six times. The Velvia 100 did ok. The Tri-X was washed out. Now I have 25 sheets (1/2 a box, unopened) of Tri-X, that there are serious doubts about.

We are going to Calif next month for a family event, and will spend 2-3 days in Yosemite. I am only bringing Velvia. I may only shoot Tri-X at home now. film is just too expensive now-a-days.

Gary Tarbert
28-Jul-2015, 06:57
I've also had that experience, however I've also had an experience where my Kodachrome 64 that's right 64 ASA SPEED film got hit with x-rays and fogged (actually stripes in a pattern).

This was in 2010, not ages ago, and I just don't trust x-ray anymore.

We each have our own method, hopefully it works for us. Hope those 40 sheets of Velvia 50 will be o.k . Don't they get x rayed in baggage anyway ? so how do you avoid?

StoneNYC
28-Jul-2015, 10:30
Hope those 40 sheets of Velvia 50 will be o.k . Don't they get x rayed in baggage anyway ? so how do you avoid?

The reason that some of the film got x-rayed was because it was in my camera, and therefore they would not and inspect the camera, so they had to throw it through the x-ray machine, all the film that was him inspected was just fine and I normally insist on hand inspecting, but they told me that they wanted to remove the lens to look inside the body of the camera, and since my camera had a cloth shutter, I agreed to let it go through the x-ray machine, so they must have really look hard at the camera body and scanned a bunch of times I assume or increased the x-ray power.

Either way this could happen with any film that was sitting next to electronic equipment where they needed to investigate further.

In the future I will probably ship all of my film ahead of time, I don't think they really x-ray all of the US Postal Service mail etc., I mean not at the same rate, that would be insane if they actually did think of all the mail that is sent around. And obviously our film seems just fine when mailed to us initially from the store, or mailed to the store, so I figure pre-shipping your film is the best bet.

Remember when you stop by my house to pick up the 8x10 Velvia50, your original plan was to shoot it in the US and develop it in the U.S. when you took your trip, so you weren't planning on bringing it back to Australia.

At that point it seemed kind of silly to ship it to you in Australia when you were driving right past my house anyway.

I'm sure the film is ok, and based on how Fuji designs packaging, I would even suspect that the material they use is resistant to x-rays anyway, but that's just a guess.

The one nice thing about the Fujifilm is that on the back of the packaging it does say do not x-ray, so you could in theory show this to the TSA inspectors and that would be proof that this particular film needed to be hand inspected. And at least in all of the situations I have had traveling, about 10 times with hand inspection, they always do it sort of in front of me, and they are pleasant and responsive when you ask if you can just watch them because of the specialty of the film, or to explain to them that they cannot open the packaging etc., they usually seem to understand.

I try not to sound too nervous, because then they get suspicious, but I make it a point to explain to them the price of each box, and that is why I'm being so careful.

I compare my work to ansel Adams, because most know who that is, and I say "i'm like one of those old guys who put their head under the black cloth" they usually think that is neat and that goes a long way.


My TSA story: In 2012 we went to Rocky Mountain National Park. I brought two boxes of Velvia 100 and a 50 sheet box of Tri-X 320. At security screening I asked for a hand check of the Tri-X. They took it away while I waited. It came back with the factory seals broken (well—OK). When I loaded the film,I found that the inside package had also been opened. I loaded a few holders and shot them. At home, all were fogged.


This summer I flew to Portland to visit a college friend, then flew to Seattle to meet my family for a cruse. Every time we re-boarded the ship, all carry on items were x-rayed too. I hadn't expected that. Overall, the film was x-rayed five or six times. The Velvia 100 did ok. The Tri-X was washed out. Now I have 25 sheets (1/2 a box, unopened) of Tri-X, that there are serious doubts about.

We are going to Calif next month for a family event, and will spend 2-3 days in Yosemite. I am only bringing Velvia. I may only shoot Tri-X at home now. film is just too expensive now-a-days.

OMG!!! Did you get your money back for the film? 50 sheets of that film is super expensive! That's also "destruction of property".

Drew Wiley
29-Jul-2015, 08:37
I can't speak for international flights, but anything TSA I'd just leave the film in a check-in bag and let them X-Ray it. I've done careful densitometer readings after multiple such exposures and find their claim credible that you don't need to worry about anything ASA 400 or slower, which includes all sheet film. But I give it a margin of error and generally travel with ACROS and Ektar, which are distinctly slower. I did formally test TMY400 which got TSA X-rayed a total of 6 times on one trip, and couldn't see any signs of fbf issues. I'd never ever put anything of value thru checked-in luggage. But not all film boxes are created the same. Some EU boxes allow light leaks at corners once you open the inner black wrap, and ACROS boxes only have two clamshells, not three, so you want to always rewrap the foil enclosure inside, or else transfer the film to 3-shell Kodak boxes. There are a lot of little issues that can trip you up if you're not aware of them. Trying to get a claim thru TSA after an incident is like pulling teeth from a cobra.

Drew Bedo
30-Jul-2015, 06:03
OMG!!! Did you get your money back for the film? 50 sheets of that film is super expensive! That's also "destruction of property".

NO.

By the time it was discovered, we were far from the Denver airport and deep in the Colorado Rockies. We didn't pass through Denver again for two weeks. It hurt, but I blew it off. Sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

StoneNYC
30-Jul-2015, 07:50
NO.

By the time it was discovered, we were far from the Denver airport and deep in the Colorado Rockies. We didn't pass through Denver again for two weeks. It hurt, but I blew it off. Sometimes the juice just isn't worth the squeeze.

I've been thinking about bringing a dark bag with me through the checkpoint, if they insist on opening the boxes I would give them the dark bag to check with, I think that seems like a smart option?

axs810
30-Jul-2015, 08:19
If you had a Harrison film changing tent that would probably work best

mstrickland
30-Jul-2015, 15:47
I keep my Arca Swiss 8x10, 4 holders (in laptop cases), and two lenses all in an F-Stop pack. I'm getting one of their newest 80L pack that has an ICU that's big enough to fit everything inside of it, so if airlines have an issue, I can just pull out the ICU and stick it in the overhead bin or under my seat. It's worked pretty well in the past.

BradS
30-Jul-2015, 15:48
I can't speak for international flights, but anything TSA I'd just leave the film in a check-in bag and let them X-Ray it. I've done careful densitometer readings after multiple such exposures and find their claim credible that you don't need to worry about anything ASA 400 or slower, which includes all sheet film. But I give it a margin of error and generally travel with ACROS and Ektar, which are distinctly slower. I did formally test TMY400 which got TSA X-rayed a total of 6 times on one trip, and couldn't see any signs of fbf issues. I'd never ever put anything of value thru checked-in luggage. But not all film boxes are created the same. Some EU boxes allow light leaks at corners once you open the inner black wrap, and ACROS boxes only have two clamshells, not three, so you want to always rewrap the foil enclosure inside, or else transfer the film to 3-shell Kodak boxes. There are a lot of little issues that can trip you up if you're not aware of them. Trying to get a claim thru TSA after an incident is like pulling teeth from a cobra.

Drew, I'm sure you mean a carry-on bag !

Drew Wiley
30-Jul-2015, 16:22
Oh, my typical typo. Thanks, Brad. I sneak these posts in and often don't have time to re-read them. Just a diversion from the more imminent insanity. But gosh,
I've tooled up some fascinating projects the last few days. Kirk would probably be interested. One of my regulars is doing about a 3 million origami-style custom bamboo ply ceiling that's due to be photographed for a book. In fact, the entire book will be devoted to that one house in SF.