Old Rectilinear Lens with only One Element. Any Use?

[secondhandrobot]

Hi All - Newbie Alert.

Got this lens in a box of old bits and pieces. Bought it for next to nothing because I saw a Dallmeyer lens in there that is stuck in some sort of flange - anyway that's another story..

It says:

Wide Angle Rectilinear 6 1/2 x 4 3/4
Made in France for Baker Rouse Limited


This lens seems to only have one element. In my very limited understanding of lenses a rectilinear should have 2 elements, no?

So can this lens be used in any way / have any uses whatsoever?

Thanks

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[Mark Sawyer]

These could be used as convertibles with one element removed and the aperture closed down, but the results were usually so-so. You could also try it wide open as a single-element soft focus achromat, but again, the results I've seen have been a bit underwhelming. But you have the lens, so it's worth a try, if only for the experience and peace of mind!

[secondhandrobot]

These could be used as convertibles with one element removed and the aperture closed down, but the results were usually so-so. You could also try it wide open as a single-element soft focus achromat, but again, the results I've seen have been a bit underwhelming. But you have the lens, so it's worth a try, if only for the experience and peace of mind!

I just projected an image on a piece of paper of a lamp sitting in my office and it seems to be very clear at about 35cm distance - not sure if that translates to a useable quality image in an actual camera.

But as you suggested I think I will just make up a lens board and give it a try. Thanks.

[DannL]

About ten years ago I built my first 8x10. Not having an 8x10 lens, I took the B&L Rapid Rectilinear lens (~170mm) from a Kodak folder and removed one element (~290mm). It covered 8x10 and then some. I'm still impressed how well that worked.

[StoneNYC]

I just projected an image on a piece of paper of a lamp sitting in my office and it seems to be very clear at about 35cm distance - not sure if that translates to a useable quality image in an actual camera.

But as you suggested I think I will just make up a lens board and give it a try. Thanks.

As I recall your bellows may not go to 350mm... But don't get rid of the lens just yet.

[secondhandrobot]

As I recall your bellows may not go to 350mm... But don't get rid of the lens just yet.

By sheer chance I picked up a Plaubel Supra II (I think) at local auction the other day for $50, a week after I purchased my Toyo 45A (my first LF camera). Strange as I have been going to local auctions for years and don't recall a large format camera coming up for a long long time. What are the chances..?

I just measured the Plaubel at full extension. Looks like the bellows will extend to about 500mm and it didn't come with a lens :p

[Mark Sawyer]

If the barrel is close to a standard filter size in front, you could buy a cheap set of close-up "filters", and have something close to a Verito with a shorter focal length. Adding a #1 would diopter would give you about a 222mm, a #2 would give you about a 182mm, and a #3 would give about a 154mm.

Lots of possibilities! :)

[StoneNYC]

By sheer chance I picked up a Plaubel Supra II (I think) at local auction the other day for $50, a week after I purchased my Toyo 45A (my first LF camera). Strange as I have been going to local auctions for years and don't recall a large format camera coming up for a long long time. What are the chances..?

I just measured the Plaubel at full extension. Looks like the bellows will extend to about 500mm and it didn't come with a lens :p

I owned the Toyo45a, it's extension should be 325 not 210 just FYI.

That said, nice find! Check the bellows for light leaks!

I miss my Toyo, kind of wish I never sold it, ah well, busy with 8x10 now :)

[secondhandrobot]

Just made up a cardboard lens board to have a test with.

I had to extend the bellows a lot to get focus, and then seemed to focus over a very broad range (if that makes sense).

But the image seems useable. Need to test it in better light tomorrow though.

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[secondhandrobot]

If the barrel is close to a standard filter size in front, you could buy a cheap set of close-up "filters", and have something close to a Verito with a shorter focal length. Adding a #1 would diopter would give you about a 222mm, a #2 would give you about a 182mm, and a #3 would give about a 154mm.

Lots of possibilities! :)


Thanks for that tip, will have a look around and see if I can find a close-up filter that fits.

[Kirks518]

Another newbie alert...

What do you / would you use for a shutter with a lens like this?

[pdh]

One uses one's opera hat of course

[AtlantaTerry]

Another newbie alert...

What do you / would you use for a shutter with a lens like this?
Google: Harris Shutter or Drop Shutter

https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CAcQjRw&url=http%3A%2F%2Fpiercevaubel.com%2Fcam%2Facc%2Fshdroprocuniversal.htm&ei=YTuPVcbfHNGAygT6wLWoAQ&bvm=bv.96783405,d.cGU&psig=AFQjCNEdo-3aFeomMZY6MSHqg-m5WF990g&ust=1435536563608720

[Andrew]

Hi... couple of points:

First up, because I'm Australian, I'm very VERY impressed that you've scored a French lens that looks like it's been imported at time of manufacture for an Australian distributer!

Second, it's a wide angle rectilinear so the focal length of the original lens was probably only about 4 inches for the stated coverage. The elements may not have been quite symmetrical but the single element is probably about 8 inches and you're using more bellows extension than that because you're focusing at close distances.

with a single element you'll have a very usable lens but it'll always be a bit soft compared to a modern lens.... you may even prefer that? If you have any interest in soft focus, you might like the look from taking the glass out of the barrel and using it at it's maximum possible aperture [the current aperture in the barrel would give you f16 at tops and it may well be a stop or two slower than that]

the brass barrel isn't very big so the fancy way to shutter it would be to drop it into a large old shutter if you were serious

but I'm interested in the other story with the Dallmeyer... PM me if you like

[secondhandrobot]

Hi... couple of points:

First up, because I'm Australian, I'm very VERY impressed that you've scored a French lens that looks like it's been imported at time of manufacture for an Australian distributer!


Yes, I've seen few Baker & Rouse parts around myself. It does make it somewhat easy to age the lens as from what I can tell Baker & Rouse ceased trading under that name in 1907 when they merged with Kodak Australia (?). So the lens, I assume, has to be at least 100+ years old. Shame I am unable to determine which French lens maker made this lens.




Second, it's a wide angle rectilinear so the focal length of the original lens was probably only about 4 inches for the stated coverage. The elements may not have been quite symmetrical but the single element is probably about 8 inches and you're using more bellows extension than that because you're focusing at close distances.

with a single element you'll have a very usable lens but it'll always be a bit soft compared to a modern lens.... you may even prefer that? If you have any interest in soft focus, you might like the look from taking the glass out of the barrel and using it at it's maximum possible aperture [the current aperture in the barrel would give you f16 at tops and it may well be a stop or two slower than that]

the brass barrel isn't very big so the fancy way to shutter it would be to drop it into a large old shutter if you were serious



I found a lens cap that was a fraction too large for it so have taken a few shots with it in the Plaubel Supra II (in cardboard lens board as shown a few posts back). As I don't yet have a shutter for it I set up some indoor shots so I could expose for seconds not fractions of a second. I did a couple of still life shots and the sharpness was impressive to my eye, at least on the negative.

I found an old Epson 4870 which I purchased and am ever so eagerly awaiting delivery of. Once I receive it I will post some shots from it.


but I'm interested in the other story with the Dallmeyer... PM me if you like

Nothing amazing, it is a 5x4 rapid rectilinear brass lens. Unfortunately it is fixed into some sort of barrel. I have had several attempts at 'freeing' it from the barrel with no luck as yet. It has roughly the same end diameter as the Baker & Rouse lens. I would love to get a shutter for one or both the lenses but unfortunately I am not very mechanically skilled.

The Baker and Rouse has an interior thread with a diameter of about 38mm, I thought if I could get a shutter with a similar size front thread I could find, fashion or get made some sort of converter between the lens and the shutter. I have been looking at Copal No 1 shutters, wondering if that might be the first step as the lens mount on it is 40mm.

[Andrew]

I have a soft spot for Dallmeyer...
have a look at the serial number and you might get lucky and find it in the archive under "rectilinear settings":
http://www.thedallmeyerarchive.com/Records/Identification.html

[secondhandrobot]

I have a soft spot for Dallmeyer...
have a look at the serial number and you might get lucky and find it in the archive under "rectilinear settings":
http://www.thedallmeyerarchive.com/Records/Identification.html

Serial is 50491

Unfortunately both pages I checked failed to load:

http://www.thedallmeyerarchive.com/Records/Volumes/stockbook6/Rectilinear%20Settings/Rapid%20Rectilinear/Sliding/5x4.pdf

http://www.thedallmeyerarchive.com/Records/Volumes/stockbook6/Rectilinear%20Settings/Rapid%20Rectilinear/Rigid/5x4.pdf

[secondhandrobot]

I have a soft spot for Dallmeyer...
have a look at the serial number and you might get lucky and find it in the archive under "rectilinear settings":
http://www.thedallmeyerarchive.com/Records/Identification.html

I did find the entry for the other Dallmeyer I have. A 2.5" Detective Tele Photo Attachment 55567. I understand this is a negative lens, not quite sure what it would be used for though.

[Andrew]

sorry about the failure to load, they were working earlier tonight... try again later

[secondhandrobot]

sorry about the failure to load, they were working earlier tonight... try again later

Is that your website?

[IanG]

Another newbie alert...

What do you / would you use for a shutter with a lens like this?

A Thornton Pickard roller blind shutter, very useful either front mounted or between the lens and the lensboard. I have a few, last count about 50 in various sizes. An alternative is a Focal plane shutter it fits the back of a field camera, I have one TP version for High speeds to 1/1000 and another unknown make I need to restore.

Other alternatives are studio shutters I have two Thornton Pickards and a Norka plus 3 or 4 front mounting shutter with one instant speed of approx 1/50. So shutters are not an issue.

Ian

[Andrew]

sorry about the failure to load, they were working earlier tonight... try again later
heavens no... but I had a quick look at 4x5 rectilinear pages to see that they were there before I offered up the link
I hate to send people on wild goose chases