Delta 100 Condensation Issues?

[John Layton]

Just processed a few batches of 5x7 - a mix of Delta 100 and FP4+ - and am seeing some strange anomalies on a few of the Delta images...almost like islands of refraction and/or softness - a bit like what can happen when film sometimes "pops" in a film holder due to sudden (mostly extreme) changes in temperature.

But no such temperature changes occurred in this case. These photos were taken early in the morning in the White Mountains of N.H. There was quite a bit of moisture in the air - and my thought is that there might be some moisture condensing on the film itself - and that perhaps Delta 100 film might be more prone to this than FP4+. My first thought was that some moisture might have condensed on my lenses...but I didn't notice any of this as I focussed then rechecked focus after each image, nor do I notice this with the FP4+ images.

At any rate...has anyone else had issues of moisture condensing on the surface of films - specifically Delta 100?

[Drew Wiley]

It can happen. Delta has a relatively slick emulsion and this might be a factor. Try to repeat the conditions and waste a sheet of film. Pull the darkslide and then
remove the holder and run your finger over the film to see if it has attracted any moisture. ABS filmholders are fairly insulating, and it really doesn't require a lot of humidity in the air to result in condensation, just a sudden temp change. Or your bellows might have stored some humidity if the camera was tucked away without properly airing out. It's a pretty rare issue; but I always set up the camera on the tripod early in the morning in the mtns to allow temps to equalize, even
if I pack it away again before use.

[John Layton]

Drew, that's great info...thanks!

Some time ago I think I heard of someone throwing a small bag of silica gel inside their camera before mounting a lens. These bags are typically white so I'm not sure if I'd risk the reflection, and I'm also not sure if this would be fast acting enough to make a difference - plus the bag would become over-saturated in short order if the air were really moist.

So I think I'll just set my camera up as you suggest, with no lens mounted for a few minutes. I also might be tempted to give the film a bit of extra time to "breathe" after the dark slide is pulled but before making an exposure...on the assumption that such extra-moist conditions usually don't coincide with any direct sunlight.

[StoneNYC]

I don't see any image examples to see what you're talking about, am I missing a link somewhere?

[Rick A]

I have a box of Delta 100 that has sheets stuck together from either static or humidity. Every so often, i pull two sheets stuck together and only realize it when it's a pain to load in the holder. This was discussed some time back on another site, as another person had same issue, and Simon Galley was apprised of it, nothing has been done about it though. My stock of it has never been frozen or cold stored.

[StoneNYC]

I have a box of Delta 100 that has sheets stuck together from either static or humidity. Every so often, i pull two sheets stuck together and only realize it when it's a pain to load in the holder. This was discussed some time back on another site, as another person had same issue, and Simon Galley was apprised of it, nothing has been done about it though. My stock of it has never been frozen or cold stored.

Ilford doesn't seal their bags, any frozen or refrigerated boxes should ALWAYS be placed in freezer safe zip-lock containers to prevent moisture and condensation from getting to the film.

Ilford also suggests a 5 DAY period to "warm up" if being taken from freezer to room temperature.

Most people are sloppy and don't do this.

Even better is to take from freezer, to fridge for 2 days, then room temp from there for 3 days before opening.

This is especially necessary for bulk rolls 70mm/46mm/35mm etc and 100 sheet boxes, but probably best to follow that with all procedures.

The 5 day information comes directly from Simon. The 2 day fridge, 3 day room temp is my own procedure.

[Drew Wiley]

Not everyone uses end-sealed foil pouches for their black and white film like Kodak does. In such cases I seal even unopened film boxes in multiple outer plastic bags before putting them in the freezer. There was a time when Ilford interleafed sheets of FP4 film with paper, prior to FP4-plus. I presume this was to minimize scuffing of the emulsion, which this film was sensitive to. But in some British circles this is accepted practice for controlling minor humidity issues - bad thinking
in that respect. You can only absorb so much and then the sponge itself ruins everything. Up in the mtns I take the same precautions with film due to the wild
diurnal temp swings.

[Jim C.]

....There was a time when Ilford interleafed sheets of FP4 film with paper, prior to FP4-plus. I presume this was to minimize scuffing of the emulsion, which this film was sensitive to. But in some British circles this is accepted practice for controlling minor humidity issues - bad thinking
in that respect. ....

I recently helped a fellow forum member and we decided to do some sharpness test shots with some out dated Bergger Panchro it was interesting that
they also ( possibly not anymore ) interleaved the film with sheets of paper, I've never come across that.
One sheet got loaded with the paper so needless to say it never got exposed. I'm sure when Ilford did that, there were possibly many
sheets that were loaded with the paper.

[Drew Wiley]

I made the same mistake with Bergger film once. A nice badly underexposed soft-focus shot when I didn't want one! I should have just called myself a Pictorialist.

[tgtaylor]

I have been shooting 8x10 Delta on a regular basis and so far have never experienced condensation even though I generally refrigerate the film and take it out for about an hour or so before loading into the holders and replacing the unused back in the fridge - a wine cooler in my case. Same thing with 35, 120, 4x5, and 8x10 Acros.

Thomas

[Maris Rusis]

I've had condensation on 8x10 film and the scenario is always the same. When the sun hits a cold camera the heat drives moisture out of the bellows. The moisture then condenses on the parts of the camera that have more thermal mass and are still cold: the ground-glass, the film, the back element of the lens. Now I take the lens and back off the camera and let the sun "bake" the bellows for a few minutes before proceeding...no more problems.

[StoneNYC]

I've had condensation on 8x10 film and the scenario is always the same. When the sun hits a cold camera the heat drives moisture out of the bellows. The moisture then condenses on the parts of the camera that have more thermal mass and are still cold: the ground-glass, the film, the back element of the lens. Now I take the lens and back off the camera and let the sun "bake" the bellows for a few minutes before proceeding...no more problems.

Fascinating!!!! Great info, thanks! I plan to use this on long hiking adventures.

PS so far I haven't had any issues with the interleaved paper/film of EFKE IR 820, 4x5 or 8x10, I think it helps prevent static issued, I think it also probably is extra protection with the IR sensitivity and possible exposure by mishandled boxes, but that's just a suspicion.

[Rick A]

Ilford doesn't seal their bags, any frozen or refrigerated boxes should ALWAYS be placed in freezer safe zip-lock containers to prevent moisture and condensation from getting to the film.

Ilford also suggests a 5 DAY period to "warm up" if being taken from freezer to room temperature.

Most people are sloppy and don't do this.

Even better is to take from freezer, to fridge for 2 days, then room temp from there for 3 days before opening.

This is especially necessary for bulk rolls 70mm/46mm/35mm etc and 100 sheet boxes, but probably best to follow that with all procedures.

The 5 day information comes directly from Simon. The 2 day fridge, 3 day room temp is my own procedure.



Um... did you see where I wrote that my box of Delta 100 has NEVER been inside the refrigerator or freezer?

[StoneNYC]

Um... did you see where I wrote that my box of Delta 100 has NEVER been inside the refrigerator or freezer?

No I didn't, my apologies.