Printing 8x10 negs, which lens

[ianrout]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some advice/opinion.

Attempting to convert a Durst 5x7 enlarger to print 8x10 negs. Have built a light source using LED and also a neg holder, now at the critical point of a lens.
Was going to use a 300mm, but the size would appear to be an issue mounting in the Durst lens holder; see link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Durst-3-Lens-Turret-from-Laborator-Enlarger-USED-E19-/351321156948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cc5f6d54)

Plan B - use a 240mm lens. Could this create issues if further down the line I start printing large??

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Cheers
Ian

[ic-racer]

Your are sure the turret is fixed to the enlarger and not the one that is removable, right? If you have the fixed turret, a 240 mounted like this should work.

134876

[ic-racer]

That 240mm Componon-S comes in two different mounting configurations. Either mounted at the waist (for non-Durst enlargers) or at the rear element, for Durst enlargers. You need the one set up to mount from the rear element (otherwise it will protrude through the hole and the turret won't spin). I had to convert mine by swapping parts from two lenses. Try to get one with the correct Durst mount from the start.

[cowanw]

Do you know the difference between fixed turrets and removable turrets?
In any case I have been playing with a 300 mm lens for the 5x7 enlarger and find the uses are extremely limited.
And the shorter the lens the bigger the print; a 210 will do fine, as well.
While you need to be creative with threading, the 10 inch Kodak enlarging lens work well, within the limits of it's age.

[Drew Wiley]

I have a custom 8x10 cold light setup atop one of my Durst 138 5x7 chassis. I can comfortably make up to 20x24 prints on it with a 305 Apo Nikkor lens, which is compact and optically superb. Turrets might have been convenient for commercial labs, but I don't see any realistic use for them. Just one more way to get dust atop a lens. You can lock those rotating turrets with a simple screw.

[IanG]

In practice I much prefer a 240mm for enlarging 10x8 negatives, it's what the 240mm Componon S is designed for after-all. I have used my 300mm Componon S in the past but find it need to much column height as well as the need to drop the baseboard.

Ian

[Drew Wiley]

Componon S is OK, just OK. But for something like 16x20, that's only about a 2x enlargement from 8x10 anyway, so detail will still be quite good. Where true apo lenses will really shine, by comparison, is in the conspicuously better rendition of microtonality in the print - a much more nuanced look.

[axs810]

Do you know the difference between fixed turrets and removable turrets?
In any case I have been playing with a 300 mm lens for the 5x7 enlarger and find the uses are extremely limited.
And the shorter the lens the bigger the print; a 210 will do fine, as well.
While you need to be creative with threading, the 10 inch Kodak enlarging lens work well, within the limits of it's age.

For those who don't know..what's the difference?

[ic-racer]

For those who don't know..what's the difference?

The non-removable turret is permanently fixed to the enlarger and the small holes and limited clearance for protrusion toward the negative, make mounting many 8x10 lenses problematic. The removable turret is on an 8" plate that interchanges easily with the other 8" diameter plates which will accept just about any lens.

Drew, which one do you have on your 138?

[Drew Wiley]

One of my 138's has a non-removed turret which I've simply locked and never use anyway. But this has a custom colorhead on it intended for only up to 5x7 film, so fitting appropriate lenses with traditonal Durst rings is no issue. This rig is my hot-rod, and became the prototype before designing my big ground-up 8x10 color enlarger. That has a Sinar P front focus standard, so takes Sinar boards. But this actually in turns accept a larger system to mount really big lenses which won't even fit the Sinar board, like the El Nikkor 360 f/6. The whole rig is built like a tank, and even the damn colorhead takes a block and tackle to remove. So that puts things in perspective, so to speak. No back to your actual question. Around the same time I picked up a second 138 chassis for spare parts and gradually refurbished it for a custom hi-ouput 12X12 cold light system. Since this has a significant surplus of light, I simply locked the turret on this rig too and can easily use a compact f/9 305 Apo Nikkor on it for my 8x10 black and white printing. It even prints fast with the extra density of attached unsharp masks
or whatever.

[John Kasaian]

I've got a $30 229mm Ilex Copy Paragon on the Elwood. It works "good enough" but the Elwood has been in storage for several years now as it is too darned large to get through the door of the bathroom/darkroom:rolleyes: LOL!

[Ginette]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some advice/opinion.

Attempting to convert a Durst 5x7 enlarger to print 8x10 negs. Have built a light source using LED and also a neg holder, now at the critical point of a lens.
Was going to use a 300mm, but the size would appear to be an issue mounting in the Durst lens holder; see link (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Durst-3-Lens-Turret-from-Laborator-Enlarger-USED-E19-/351321156948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item51cc5f6d54)

Plan B - use a 240mm lens. Could this create issues if further down the line I start printing large??

Any thoughts much appreciated.

Cheers
Ian

Maybe a picture of your own turret will clarify the topic.

If you have really the fixed turret like the link you point, the easier way is to find the older Componon 240mm with the Durst special extended Lapla.
It can be found easily on eBay but not often with the Durst extended Lapla. Don't buy it without the Lapla, you will never be able to find it alone. This is what this lens look. Under 100$ solution.
135083

Now I was intriguous about what lenses can enter in the hole of the olders Durst 138 and both the Rodagon 240mm and 300 mm (latest generation) enter in the hole of the Durst 138 first generation that I still have (I have also a 138S with the removable turret).

The problem with the old 138 is that you have to mount yours lenses on Lapla rings and that no Lapla exist in 72mm and you cannot screw the 72mm threaded flange on a Lapla like you can do for 50-53-55-58 flanges. The Lapla by itself have a diameter of 78mm so 72 mm is too close to work on it.

But as you can see in your link, this "fixed" turret can be removed (seller removed it for selling it alone). You can try 2 things.
- Fixing the 72mm flange on the existing 3 holes turret, you will have to cut into the flange to manage the center post and the Lapla retaining screw. This way you will keep the option to use the 2 others holes for regular Lapla.
- Or if you wish to use only 72mm flanged lenses (Rodagon 240 and 300m and I think the El-Nikkor 210mm) you can remove the 3 holes part and keep only the bottom part of the whole assembly and screw the flange directly onto that main part. I never try to dismantle the part witch rotate but I think it can be removed pretty easily. As it rotated, it should be retained by the center post.

[Ginette]

That 240mm Componon-S comes in two different mounting configurations. Either mounted at the waist (for non-Durst enlargers) or at the rear element, for Durst enlargers. You need the one set up to mount from the rear element (otherwise it will protrude through the hole and the turret won't spin). I had to convert mine by swapping parts from two lenses. Try to get one with the correct Durst mount from the start.

ic, what is the thread size of the newer 240mm Componon-S?
You made a custom fitting or is it an extended Lapla made for this lens?

[ianrout]

Thanks for all the feedback and advice, only just got back here to read through...
I'll have another look at enlarger. Has the 3 lens turret. Might be worthwhile make something to bypass this and then I can go with any size lens.
At a later date would like to print large!
Thanks again

[ianrout]

Hi.
Think the turret is removable.
Might remover and make something.


Your are sure the turret is fixed to the enlarger and not the one that is removable, right? If you have the fixed turret, a 240 mounted like this should work.

134876

[ianrout]

Thanks for this. Will have a good look this week and see if this is an option.
Cheers
ian



Maybe a picture of your own turret will clarify the topic.

If you have really the fixed turret like the link you point, the easier way is to find the older Componon 240mm with the Durst special extended Lapla.
It can be found easily on eBay but not often with the Durst extended Lapla. Don't buy it without the Lapla, you will never be able to find it alone. This is what this lens look. Under 100$ solution.
135083

Now I was intriguous about what lenses can enter in the hole of the olders Durst 138 and both the Rodagon 240mm and 300 mm (latest generation) enter in the hole of the Durst 138 first generation that I still have (I have also a 138S with the removable turret).

The problem with the old 138 is that you have to mount yours lenses on Lapla rings and that no Lapla exist in 72mm and you cannot screw the 72mm threaded flange on a Lapla like you can do for 50-53-55-58 flanges. The Lapla by itself have a diameter of 78mm so 72 mm is too close to work on it.

But as you can see in your link, this "fixed" turret can be removed (seller removed it for selling it alone). You can try 2 things.
- Fixing the 72mm flange on the existing 3 holes turret, you will have to cut into the flange to manage the center post and the Lapla retaining screw. This way you will keep the option to use the 2 others holes for regular Lapla.
- Or if you wish to use only 72mm flanged lenses (Rodagon 240 and 300m and I think the El-Nikkor 210mm) you can remove the 3 holes part and keep only the bottom part of the whole assembly and screw the flange directly onto that main part. I never try to dismantle the part witch rotate but I think it can be removed pretty easily. As it rotated, it should be retained by the center post.

[Luis-F-S]

Ginette, I had SK Grimes make a Lapla for my 240 Rodagon for $150 plus S/H. No need for the extended Lapla. Should be similar for a Componon. Something like that would work on an L-138 with or without a turret. If with, you just would not be able to rotate the turret, but would need to remove it first. No need to be modifying the turret. For personal use, who cares!

I'm also having SKG mount the Durst Lapla holder onto a DeVere board so I can use my Lapla mounted lenses on the DeVere without having to buy a bunch of DeVere boards. I'll post some photos once I get it back! L

[ic-racer]

ic, what is the thread size of the newer 240mm Componon-S?
You made a custom fitting or is it an extended Lapla made for this lens?

That newer Componon-S 240mm in the picture I posted came with a special Durst adapter that mounts on the rear threads of the lens. They are 'outer threads' as opposed to 'inner threads' that accept a filter. That is a little different from the older Componon 240 pictured which looks like it is still mounted at the waist of the barrel with an extended mount.

There was a thread on APUG, about mounting the 240mm Componon-S in various configurations. After I posted on that thread in 2010, I got a second 240mm and swapped parts to make a single lens that mounts on the Tripla. http://www.apug.org/forums/forum43/75016-how-do-i-remove-ring.html

[Ginette]

Thanks ic and Luis.
For myself I have no problem. I run the 138 with the Rodagon 210mm (58mm Lapla) and the Rodagon 240 and 300 goes on Vapla on the Durst 184.
It is for helping members who search some lenses to mount on the 138 fixed turret with the intention of running an 8x10 head over it.
So I confirm that the Rodagon 240 and 300mm back lens group will enter in the hole of the fixed turret. I try to put the flange into the bellow but distance is too much so the lens will not screw. So you have to find a way to fix the flange directly on the turret or to extend in some way a Lapla or ask SK Grimes to do it like Luis said.
Another Durst part can be interesting, a Dutub like this one, ebay#281708893304 if you see one at low cost. the Rodagon 240 and 300mm backs will enter into and a plate with the right flange can be fix at the end.