View Full Version : Turning a van into a simple darkroom... assistance required...
AlexGard
2-Jun-2015, 05:42
This is a very simple problem but has me losing my mind.
I have crudely converted my Toyota Hiace van into a darkroom to use for wet plate work, after a fumingly expensive disaster with an inferior eskimo quickfish3 tent.
Anyway, I don't want anything fancy. A blacked-out light-proof space is all I want. I don't really care much for benches/sinks/shelves... just lightproofing. This has been the biggest obstacle in this entire process, never mind mixing the chemicals etc.
The van, with the darkroom, is partitioned in three sections.
1.Front; the drivers cab.
2.Middle: The part where the sliding door opens up and the middle section of the rear cargo cab, where my chemicals/whatever other odds and ends are stored.
3.The rear third of the van is what I want to partition off into the darkroom, with access through the sliding door and a double-flap of black plastic and a third black fabric curtain.
At the moment, I have used black builders plastic sheeting, the kind that is used in concrete foundations. It's thick, pretty heavy, and totally light-proof. Great stuff. I am just having trouble finding ways to make it stick to the walls and ceiling/floor of my van. I feel my want for simplicity is what's causing the problems. I was hoping that enough black gaffer's tape (that supposedly sticks to anything) would work, but no. It holds for most of the day then starts to lose it's adhesiveness as the day goes on, eventually not working at all. It was a cheap 'chinese' option, I soon realised.
I am using a "double curtain" kind of system, where there is just a flap of the plastic sheeting and then another flap of the plastic sheeting going the other way, at the side-door of my van. I've gaffer-taped the plastic that isn't mean to open/close and then used adhesive velcro for the parts that are meant to open/close. This system works Great... for a couple of hours... then the velcro comes away and the lightproofing fails.
The rear section is fine, as it's not being opened/closed/put under any stress or tension it's great (the pic with the red flag).. no problems at that end.
Anyway, to save a long winded rant... does anyone have any suggestions as to how to make this black plastic sheeting stick to the walls, ceiling and floor of my van for this
purpose? Staples? Super glue? Sicaflex? Is there any particular brand or product that would make this stuff work?
As I said, I don't want anything special... just a light-proof van!
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There is a product called Devcon Plastic Welder that can be used to bond the velcro strips to the plastic... (Usually at a home or hardware store) I find it is the only thing that will bond difficult to bond plastics together... There is another brand, (Loctite) but the Devcon band is better...
It is a two part epoxy like bonder, that comes in the twin plunger type syringe tubes... Not too much $$$ for a small amount, but plan on keeping the bonding areas minimal so it does not become expensive...
Steve K
Jac@stafford.net
2-Jun-2015, 07:01
Steve K had the good tip for a bonding agent.
At the moment, I have used black builders plastic sheeting, the kind that is used in concrete foundations. It's thick, pretty heavy, and totally light-proof.
Trivial aside - it might not be lightproof, at least in the infra-red range. Perhaps that's not important in wet plate. FWIW, I have night vision goggles that see through the rubber lens caps. :(
I can't quite envision the partition you described. Is it such that you are entering the rear through a double drape?
joselsgil
2-Jun-2015, 16:03
Alex,
There is a Sally Mann video on UTube that shows her using the back of her Chevy Suburban Truck, to make her plates. It looks quite simple and I think it has less room than your setup.
Good luck,
Jose
This stuff is not cheap but it works great. It is weatherproof, last for years outside, sticks real good! https://youtu.be/JU33xkfagAc
I just installed 5-30x30 inch Coroplast signs over my windows with 6 strips of 3" on each window. I used clear self adhesive 170/400. Reusable well over 1000 times.
Shop carefully for best price. Often used to mount electronics inside Gov vehicles. I bought it in 10 foot rolls, it cuts easily with scissors. Miracle 3M product.
I would attach a lath/wooden strapping to the body interior, put up the plastic sheeting, then screw down a wood or plastic strip with screws that go through the plastic. You could dispense with the strip and just staple it to the wood, but it would eventually tear through the staples.
Jac, the OP is probably looking for UV proof, not IR proof.
AlexGard
2-Jun-2015, 20:37
thanks JP, in the end that's what I'm going for. Just got a bunch of flexyboard cut to lengths going to screw a little frame around the interior of the van and staple a couple of layers of black plastic to it, then cover up any gaps between the plastic and the wood with gaffer tape, I also bought some "blackout" fabric (it's pretty good, I held my iphone LED light up against it and couldn't see it through the other side at all) and just use that as a final 3rd safety net, which I'll sew a zipper onto and staple it to the inside of the darkroom.
And yes I'm not so worried about IR light, UV is what I need to take care of.
Erik Larsen
2-Jun-2015, 21:06
Hi Alex, if you can't get satisfactory darkness with your efforts in the van, you might consider this solution. You can work standing up and it's relatively roomy inside. It cost about $75 in wood and fabric. I wish I had a nice van to use! I either put the tent on the tailgate of my truck of or the little table shown in the pic. Good luck with you efforts.
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cdholden
2-Jun-2015, 21:25
Erik,
Do you have plans or detailed photos? I'm planning to start building one for the tailgate of my truck this Sunday (weather and creativity permitting).
Chris
Erik Larsen
2-Jun-2015, 21:32
Erik,
Do you have plans or detailed photos? I'm planning to start building one for the tailgate of my truck this Sunday (weather and creativity permitting).
Chris
Hi Chris, I didn't follow any plans. Here's a pic without the fabric. It's just plywood of 2'x4' size and some 1x2's to staple the fabric to. A couple adjustable flag pole holders and dowels. 134798
AlexGard
3-Jun-2015, 00:17
Did a bit of back and forthing to the hardware store and haberdashery. Cut up some plywood and drilled it to the central main brace of the cargo compartment of the van. Used the gaffer tape to seal up any light leaks coming through the tiny gaps between the brace and the ceiling upholstery.
From the haberdashery I bought this "black out" fabric, as I said before I held my iphone with the LED torch light on underneath it and couldn't see it through it at all. I understand it's not going to be IR proof but that's not what I'm after. I got a couple of meters of that stuff and stapled it around the frames that I drilled in and also along half of the floor of the van, leaving a kind of "flap" to get in and out of. I also bought a couple meters of black zipper and hand stitched the zipper just along one side of the fabric where I intend to get in and out of and stapled the other half of the zipper to the new plywood brace on the wall, so I can zip it up and down no worries....
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AlexGard
3-Jun-2015, 00:24
Behind the zipper curtain/wall, inside the actual darkroom, I stapled the leftover fabric along the ceiling just hanging, so that when I closed the zip, I just pull the second inner curtain over it and it blocked any other light leaks coming in. It was late in the day, just on dusk but I climbed in and did a torch test and so far so good.... light tight as hell and as far as I can tell it's pretty solid, too.
I know this is no big deal or great achievement but I was looking for threads/how-to's on how to do this simply and easily and found nothing so I guess this can go on record for anyone in the future who might want to do a quick conversion of the back third of their van into a darkroom. The working space is about 1.3 meters wide x 1.2 meters long x 1.4ish meters high, this is in a mid-wheelbase 1999 Toyota Hiace, so I guess in the future should I want to do larger plates I will always have the room.
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Best thing about this is that it's very easy to get in and out of, just climb in and close the zip and make sure the inner curtain is blocking any light. Easy. Next step will be to black out the white walls of the darkroom in the van as well, just to be triple safe... but as far as I can tell it's 100% light proof and ready to go for wet plate work. Phew! After all that...
Alex,
Did you think about proper exhaustion of the ether fumes, especially when your van heats up in summer? You do not want to fall over unconscious into your silver bath, or cyanide fixer.... In my make shift set up in my former car (a Renault Kangoo) I poured out side, kept the collodion chemistry outside the dark box.
best,
Cor
AlexGard
3-Jun-2015, 01:24
Cheers cor yes all the pouring is done outside the van, see first post with pic pf table outside the van. In any windy situation pouring could be done in the mid section- plenty of ventilation
analoguey
3-Jun-2015, 04:19
Was gonna suggest the blackout cloth option. You could probably improve on this by using a 2-curtain idea, if you're looking for easily removable light proofing.
What about one of those hydroponic grow tents? You can get them in all sorts of sizes.
This might be handy too Lite Tite Heavy Duty Peel Stick Zipper tarp zip grow room tent doorway http://r.ebay.com/9uAqao
AlexGard
3-Jun-2015, 04:33
Yeah I was looking at one of those, I spoke to Alex from Holland and he said that logistically they are a bit of a pain as they take a while to set up and break down, and aren't really made to be dismantled all the time. The key for me was mobility because I want to be able to take this out, I don't so much want to be doing studio stuff as I do driving into the middle of paddocks and taking pics of trees. The wind was an issue too with the quickfish, I think I've found a pretty good medium. End of the day you're only really spending 10 seconds to dunk the plate and then 30 seconds to develop and stop the plate, so doesn't have to be super comfortable..?
AlexGard
3-Jun-2015, 04:44
The problem with those peel & stick things is that after time they just get weak and come away from what they're supposed to be sticking to. I tried this with the peel & stick velcro. I think too that the builders plastic had some kind of powdered protective film on it that made adhesives misbehave.
Never matter, will go out tomorrow and give it a spin. Hopefully it does the job!
I was think more you could set it up in the van so not to take it down all the time.
good luck.
William Whitaker
3-Jun-2015, 06:22
Was gonna suggest the blackout cloth option. You could probably improve on this by using a 2-curtain idea, if you're looking for easily removable light proofing.
I was wondering just how you were going to breathe in there.
I was wondering just how you were going to breathe in there.
breatihng ?
come'on will, there's a little hunter thompson in all of us ;)
AlexGard
4-Jun-2015, 03:42
breatihng ?
come'on will, there's a little hunter thompson in all of us ;)
There's a lot of truth to this.
AlexGard
4-Jun-2015, 03:54
just for the record I climbed in today in full daylight and the 'black out' cloth is not totally lightproof, it's good in just one layer, but not totally... little pin points of light if the sun is directly on it, so I just stapled another layer over the top of it. Also had to install a third curtain at the zipper. I also actually blacked out the back window of the van with the plastic as some light was finding it's way in some nooks and crannies. Only took me 10 minutes to fix these up.
My van looks so suspicious now with the rear windows blacked out with black plastic lol
might be worth asking, do we need a permit to carry these kinds of chemicals in our vehicle? The guy where I got the wood from briefly mentioned needing a HAZMAT permit... or would that only be for commercial purposes?
I think you need to check your local worksafe guidelines. But my guess is your well below any set limits. Other size they be pulling over every painter.
bobwysiwyg
8-Jun-2015, 16:12
My van looks so suspicious now with the rear windows blacked out with black plastic lol
I wouldn't park near any schools. :)
Lachlan 717
8-Jun-2015, 17:22
My van looks so suspicious now with the rear windows blacked out with black plastic lol
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dsphotog
8-Jun-2015, 19:57
Hi Chris, I didn't follow any plans. Here's a pic without the fabric. It's just plywood of 2'x4' size and some 1x2's to staple the fabric to. A couple adjustable flag pole holders and dowels. 134798
I like this, simple and effective.
just for the record I climbed in today in full daylight and the 'black out' cloth is not totally lightproof, it's good in just one layer, but not totally... little pin points of light if the sun is directly on it, so I just stapled another layer over the top of it. Also had to install a third curtain at the zipper. I also actually blacked out the back window of the van with the plastic as some light was finding it's way in some nooks and crannies. Only took me 10 minutes to fix these up.
My van looks so suspicious now with the rear windows blacked out with black plastic lol
might be worth asking, do we need a permit to carry these kinds of chemicals in our vehicle? The guy where I got the wood from briefly mentioned needing a HAZMAT permit... or would that only be for commercial purposes?
I would actually recommend putting some sort of reflective blocker in between the window and the black out cloth. It might help keep the heat out and look less suspicious on the outside.
As for the chemicals in the car - I do believe there are some things you need to be careful about. Is this a darkroom van for silver gelatin printing or wet plate collodion?
I have crudely converted my Toyota Hiace van into a darkroom to use for wet plate work
If it's for wet plate work, why not simply cover the windows with rubylith?
You can use velcro strips to easily attach and remove them.
You don't need full darkness for wet plate work, except for the silver bath, and even then, if you don't have a silver tank, you can do it in a tray covered by a larger tray.
OK, so I have been reading this thread for a few days now, assuming that "safety first" has been thought through first... But as I'm reading this, I'm getting the feeling that a sincere attempt at artistic expression has the elements for a possible "Darwin" award...
So this little van will be sitting outside all day in the sun somewhere with the wetplate kit and kaboodle... What could possibly go wrong!?!!!!
So ventilation doesn't seem to be an issue... (Check...)
Then there's that forgotten detail about storing collodion in said vehicle...
https://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ether/ether_info2.shtml
This seems to be inviting different possible outcomes with the elements present...
Not trying to be negative here, but a total review of safety in this process is in order...
"Cyanide and Spirits" by Bill Jay should be on the top of your required reading list, for a peek at the "bad old days" of photography...
Stay Well!!!!
Steve K
Or if one was to get into an accident on the way to a shooting location...there's a possibility of silver nitrate and potassium cyanide flying everywhere in the car!
Get some 3M Super Trim Adhesive in the spray can. Follow instructions. I used this stuff for years doing custom vans. It works when no other adhesive will.
Pamelageewhizz
15-Jul-2015, 22:46
Check out the Ian Ruhter site - www.ianruhter.com. He does wet plate out the back of a truck. Fantasic work! He also does workshops for kids during the year. Nice guy too, my lf class did a skype with him. "The Alchemist" video on the site shows him and the crew working. Massive plates.
cuypers1807
16-Jul-2015, 08:10
Just read this. I use a $20 Lightning McQueen kids tent from Walmart in the back of my truck. I covered it with the thin light tight material from Freestyle and it works great. The tent is 4'x5' and red so if any light gets through it doesn't do any damage. Let me find a photo and I will post it.
cuypers1807
16-Jul-2015, 08:25
ok. Here are a few photos of my set up. Since these photos were taken I have added a Leer cover to the back of the truck so I could leave the tent set up when I traveled. That saved a lot time and reduced the wear on the tent poles which are pretty cheap. This set up with out the cover worked great though and was the easiest & cheapest option I could find when I began shooting wet plate. The space inside the tent is large (around 4'x5'). I shoot 8x10 but it could easily work with 11x14 or maybe even 16x20. Since the light tight material is light and thin I added some bocchi balls (plastic balls filled with water) to the corners of the shroud portion. It is white on the outside and black on the inside. I use a red led head lamp for work inside the tent.
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8548/8699429848_102c2842ea.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/efJRpN)
https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8414/8698306695_3176dd35b7.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/efD6x6)
AlexGard
21-Jul-2015, 11:13
That looks neat for a utility vehicle. And a very convenient working height. I must ask, how do you stop the light from leaking up underneath? Some kind of elastic "hole" that you poke through or something?
I need to put some benches in my van.. The kneeling is a little awkward after a while.
I'd imagine he would wrap the clothe around him and lean against the truck bed to keep the light out? Idk that would be my guess
Domingo A. Siliceo
22-Jul-2015, 04:11
It's a bit off-topic, but do you know the film about Tadeusza Rolke?
http://ninateka.pl/film/dziennik-z-podrozy-piotr-stasik
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