View Full Version : Exposing Older TX 4164 CF

1-Jun-2015, 06:15
I just finished restoring a 2X3 pre/annv Speed Graphic (from my youth) and found in the kit, 3 unopened 25 sht. boxes of 2X3 Tri-X 4164 (dated 11/1996) I had purchased for it in the 90's...

I just ran a box of Arista EDU 100 through the camera, (it worked great!!!) but I was wondering about using the Tri-X...

I see online that shooting old film seems to be the rage for some workers now, but I have some questions;

-Are the old film negatives shot today mostly destined to be scanned, or is there wet printing possibly involved??? (Are base fog levels a deciding factor???)

-This film is about 20 yrs old... (not fresh, but not antique) Is there anyone with suggestions for starting points for Box speed vs new EI, should I add benzotriazole #1 (or other restrainer) to the developer now or wait, what developer works well for low fog, etc...

DK-50 diluted is my general all-around developer... (other developers better for this???) I hope to wet print using a Graflarger (with the P-51 green phosphor) for this size film... Development will be in a 500ml Nikor tank with the 2X3 CF rack inside...

Any suggestions, warnings, or any other wisdom???


Steve K

1-Jun-2015, 06:31
hi steve k.

i pretty much only shoot expired film, and have for a long while. some folks suggest there is a formula for "speed loss" which is
1 fstop / decade it has been expired. i don't know how valid that is, i just expose it at about 100 or 50 when i have old tri x so maybe it is similar ?
( i would have exposed it at about 200 if it was fresh )
i haven't used dk50 in a long long time ( about 1988 ) and really can't comment on using that.
what i would use is DEKTOL or ANSCO 130. i'd dilute and develop with either of these developers
for about the same amount of time and dilution 1:6 for about 6-7 maybe 8mins ...
what i would probably do is expose 2 sheets and bracket the exposures, so use your darkslide and block off the lens like you would a test strip under the enlarger
.. expose it as iso 200, 100, 50, 25 .. and then develop the film one sheet at a time and see what developer and times looks the best for what you want to do ..
i've never used restrainers &c . my suggestions are for a more active developer ...

good luck with your film + camera !

Jim C.
1-Jun-2015, 06:34
You may want to use HC-110 developer, it seems from most information I've read and from using it that it
works well with very old past date film.

Kevin Crisp
1-Jun-2015, 06:35
My experience with that vintage Tri-X is that it would probably be OK if frozen or kept in a cold fridge. B+F increase but not much. If kept on a shelf, the fogging is moderate to heavy.

Take one sheet or part of one sheet and develop it normally and see how it looks. My guess is it will be as fogged as that grey border at the top of this thread. I haven't tried bentriazole on film, just paper, so can't help you there.

Kevin Crisp
1-Jun-2015, 07:08
And I'll add that my experiences were with HC110.

1-Jun-2015, 09:17
My experience with that vintage Tri-X is that it would probably be OK if frozen or kept in a cold fridge. B+F increase but not much. If kept on a shelf, the fogging is moderate to heavy.

I have around 1,000 sheets of 4x5 Tri-X that's been frozen (except for 2 weeks following Katrina) since it expired in 1988. I've developed it with HC-110 and the base fog is up around 0.45 or around 7-8 times that of fresh film. I've recently gotten some of the Photographer's Formulary FA-1027 but haven't had a chance to try it yet. L

1-Jun-2015, 17:12
Why guess; you are the only one that has the film. Test you exposure index and development time and as you would any other film. For example my HP5 from 1984 had an ASA-type speed point around 125 when I last tested it.

2-Jun-2015, 04:36
Hey everyone, thanks for the replies!!!

Y'all helped me connect-the-dots in my head, so now it's time to test...

Good points for using a stronger developer, I think I have some HC-110 somewhere or paper developer, and test the EI & dev time...

I kind of answered one of my own questions in my head tonight about using restrainers... A year ago I tried some old lith film that had a bad fog, so I added more and more restrainer and it didn't do too much to the fog, just cut the film speed more and more... So the fog level is going to be what it is...

I only saw the other post about the Super XX last night, and I realized that the Graphlarger with the green light will be mostly choked off by using a #4 PC filter on multicontrast paper to get a good black, so I will have to consider using a color head or condenser enlarger... (Another helpful post!!!!)

So, testing, testing, testing soon...


Steve K

DG 3313
2-Jun-2015, 05:58
I got some of this old film in 4x5 from a forum member this year with a partial box of 2 1/4x3 1/4 as well. The 7 sheets of Tri-x 4x5 were done in solution B 110 HC rated at iso 50. They were thin and I only made contacts. The cool thing about my TX4164 was the fringing from the edges inward. I used it to frame my subject with the last two sheets exposed.



4-Jun-2015, 23:08

For the heck of it, I exposed 2 sheets @ EI 80 & 40 outside, and included them with a normal film run in DK50 developer...

They both came out OK!!! To my eyeball, the fog level is low and even, barely above the grey base of the film... The EI @50 would be fine with good highlight and shadow detail on a sunny day... The overall contrast is a little lower (flatter), but wet printing it with a 2 1/2 filter on multigrade should do the trick...

So I think this batch should be OK for casual shooting, and now I have some film to burn for testing several odd barrel lenses that I have mounted on lensboards for the Baby Speed Graphic... FUN!!!!

Thanking everyone again for their input, and wishing everyone all good things!!!

Steve K