Beefy Negatives

[Aaron_3437]

I have sometimes come across photographers mentioned "beefy negatives" . Am I right to assume that their negatives are developed beyond 1.35 highlight density? If yes, would it not be difficult to print for highlight separation since it's "over the shoulder"? Where do they place shadow details anyway? I experimented but find it too contrasty and moving down a grade meant lower local contrast. Thanks!

[Chuck_1686]

Most modern films don't shoulder off the highlights until the exposure is extreme. The detail is in the negative. But you need a paper or process that has a lower overall contrast to get the details in the print. Or use burning and dodging or many other darkroom methods. They may also be referring to a negative that has lot's of exposure but normal contrast. I suppose downside of overexposure is less sharp and more grain. But not a real problem for larger formats. I find I put detailed shadows on Zone III-IV. Get to know your meter flare problems. It can mess up your shadow readings and lead to underexposure.

[N Dhananjay]

Beefy seems to refer to overexposure and/or overdevelopment. Typically with a long negative density range. If the negative is not matched to the paper, the negative will be difficult to print. If your shadows look right, the highlights will be blown. If you print for the highlights to look right, the shadows will be murky/inky. In general, there is some slop in the system and I, for one, prefer to err on the side of slight overexposure. But the aim would be to develop such that the negative range matches the paper. Sometimes, though there are reasons to break this rule. A good example is when the sky is several stops brighter than the land with a clean horizon line (I'm assuming you do not have a grad ND filter to deal with that during exposure). You could reduce development time such that the overall negative range fits the paper, but you will find that the local contrast over the whole scale is lowered - the land looks murky, the sky looks wishy-washy (yes, I know those are terribly scientific terms, but play along..;-). It sometimes makes for easier printing if you expose and develop normally (which means you have a negative with a very long negative density range, assuming no shoulders etc on the film). When printing, you just burn in the sky - that way, you have good local contrast in the land and the sky. You could always use a harder grade of paper to achieve similar results, but you may not have that luxury (esp. if you use a graded paper brand that does not have too many grades) and it is nice to have contrast grades on either side to tinker with, especially to deal with judgments of local contrast during printing. Cheers, DJ

[bob carnie]

I would try to explain it as a negative that has more exposure or density on the film (beefy) as opposed to (thin) which has little exposure or density on the film.
Not to be confused with bullet proof negative which could be heavy density and over development.

I have made good prints from thin negatives as well as beefy to bullet proof.
As well I have printed negatives developed in diafine using toliet water.

Some printing techniques require well exposed well developed negs, other processes lend themselves to not so perfect negs.

[Aaron_3437]

Thanks Chuck, DJ & Bob for the explaination. I think I get the idea now. Appreciate it!