Price of Kodak Ektar 4x5 gone up 20-30%+ ?

[EdSawyer]

I just noticed Kodak Ektar 100 in 4x5 seems to have shot up in price from $35/box to $49/box just recently? For a long time it was the cheapest C41 film from Kodak, less than Portra 160 and 400. Now it seems like it's the most expensive! >:-/

WTF kodak, let's be consistent if you want to keep selling film...

Freestyle seems to still have it at the "old" price of about $35/box so I ordered 5 boxes from them. Hopefully the price will come back down, it was already egregious enough as it was (and the annoying kodak habit of only selling 10-sheet boxes is a constant annoyance.)

-Ed

[goamules]

I couldn't believe what the local artsy photo shop was selling 4x5 for, pushing $80 a box. I asked "Is that 25 in a box?" No, just 10. Velvia in 35mm has gone from $8 five years ago to about $15 last time I checked there. Film is a niche luxory item now.....it will just get more expensive. You can still get Ilford Black and White fairly cheap though.

[vinny]

Get all you can afford from freestyle while u can for $35
Cheaper to buy 8x10 and cut it down!!!! :(
Kodak? That's the company who used to sell film, right?

[tgtaylor]

Ektar is not the only Kodak product with a price increase. Dektol went from $6.95 for a gallon package to $10.00 at my local supplier. At B&H its now priced at $10.95. Dektol is now more expensive than Xtol - $9.06 locally and $9.95 at B&H.

Thomas

[John Kasaian]

Kodak and it's prices. Don't get me started. Grrr!:mad:

[JMO]

I just ordered some Ektar 4x5 film at Badger Graphics at $32.99 per 10 sheet box. ...

[Old-N-Feeble]

I lost money selling all my Ektar 100 a year ago during a time of financial stress. I guess I should have sold something else and waited to sell the Ektar.

[jp]

They don't make sense. TMY2 is their cheap film in B&W 120 format, and their expensive film in B&W LF. Good deals don't last; get what Ektar you can if you can get it for 30-something a box. It's good film.

[EdSawyer]

Yeah, I could handle across-the-board increases if they are consistent, but huge swings in price is just a pain in the ass. I love Ektar, and use it all the time. That's crazy about the Dektol price too! (though Dektol != Xtol as far as usage, but still...)

[Deval]

makes it more expensive per sheet than slide film...even if you include processing...maybe this will give fuji a boost

[StoneNYC]

Everything color is going up, Fuji will have a 20% price increase in just a few months, that's what happens when people stop buying it. Keep buying it regularly instead of stockpiling it and consume it more often and the price won't spike so much, stockpile and complain and others follow suit and soon everyone is complaining and freezing their film and hesitating to shoot it instead of consuming and then another price hike happens.

That's the market, it's not just kodak.

[nlambrecht]

I just spoke with Badger Graphic, they have not been informed of the price increase by Kodak. They are also currently out of stock of Ektar 4x5, but have more coming in next week. They will honor the $32.99 price if you order before they are notified of the price increase.

[Deval]

There are still a few number of other retailers placing it at 32.99...either they didn't get the notification, or one of the big two decided to increase the price with the other one auto-pricematching...

[tgtaylor]

I think that the big swing in the price of Dektol is that fewer people are printing in the darkroom but are still shooting and developing their film which explains why Dektol shot up and Xtol remained flat.

Funny thing is that I bought a package Dektol over the weekend and ordered Metol and Glycin to make Ansco 130 yesterday.

Thomas

[John Kasaian]

I just ordered some Ektar 4x5 film at Badger Graphics at $32.99 per 10 sheet box. ...
Badger Graphic are good people:)

[Drew Wiley]

Maybe some places are buying from secondary sources and giving it an extra markup. Who knows? But sheet film needs different base material than roll film, and
once on brand takes a climb, the others follow suit. It is getting spooky seeing 4x5 climbing up into the level of price I paid for 8x10 per sheet a decade or so ago.
At some point, it's unsustainable. But I learned a long time ago that the most-cost effective film is the right one to begin with. Best to spend a bit more on film,
shoot it correctly, and have it print the way you need, rather than wasting more paper trying. Ya gotta think of the net expense. And Kodak films are damn good
at the moment. Glad I have a lot in the freezer at the moment too, some it bought at about a third of today's going rate.

[Old-N-Feeble]

I estimate cost of living doubles every fifteen years. When items begin to become obscure from lack of popularity and sales drop drastically then price increases are compounded. So it's no surprise the cost of film... especially sheet film... is climbing so rapidly.

[Corran]

Kodak is pricing themselves out of the market. Their pricing is unsustainable. The younger folks are into film and it's having a resurgence of popularity (at least I see that personally) but when they see the cost of larger film it's a no-go. Or b&w only. I've got enough film to last me a long time after buying a ton. If Kodak can't support me with proper pricing, I guess I just won't shoot it.

[tgtaylor]

I wonder if some of the price increases is knee-jerk reaction to the actions of a few high profile retailers? For example it's been the policy of the local store where I usually go to buy photographic supplies to price things like the developers and papers to match the B&H price once the local sales tax is applied. The sticker on the package of Dektol that I bought this weekend was $6.95 but the selling price printed on the receipt was $10.00 When I got home I checked the B&H website (and Adorama also) and the selling price there was $10.95 - exactly what I paid locally with the sales tax.

Thomas

[Daniel Stone]

I wonder if some of the price increases is knee-jerk reaction to the actions of a few high profile retailers? For example it's been the policy of the local store where I usually go to buy photographic supplies to price things like the developers and papers to match the B&H price once the local sales tax is applied. The sticker on the package of Dektol that I bought this weekend was $6.95 but the selling price printed on the receipt was $10.00 When I got home I checked the B&H website (and Adorama also) and the selling price there was $10.95 - exactly what I paid locally with the sales tax.

Thomas

If the sticker says/said $6.95, the store should have honored that marked price. CA board of eqaulization doesn't care for mis-matched pricing issues, even over $4... Just sayin

[Jac@stafford.net]

If the sticker says/said $6.95, the store should have honored that marked price. CA board of eqaulization doesn't care for mis-matched pricing issues, even over $4... Just sayin

The receipt price might have included state and local taxes. No?
.

[Kirk Gittings]

Regular price increases are a sad fact in out beloved addiction. Film is not going to get cheaper or even level out in pricing for any length of time.

[Drew Wiley]

I'll probably pick up a few boxes locally tonite just to have in reserve, then thaw out an older box to keep the date rotated. Here they're often just as cheap as the big houses, sometimes less. CA tax vs shpg tend to offset one another on non-equip purchases like this, and on paper I don't pay tax at all due to a resale license, so local is generally the very cheapest option for paper, esp if it's something I special order. I don't know who is buying color sheet film around here in general, but they had a good stack of 4x5 Ektar in there they other day, along with both Portras. No 8x10 color. Beginners usually don't print at all from color sheet film, so going around ranting about boycotting Kodak in this category is meaningless. There simply aren't many choices left in color like there are in black and white. Or one can switch up the act from time to time and use a roll film back to keep costs down when big prints aren't needed. Everyone has to develop their own strategy.

[tgtaylor]

If the sticker says/said $6.95, the store should have honored that marked price. CA board of eqaulization doesn't care for mis-matched pricing issues, even over $4... Just sayin

I agree. I never looked at the receipt until I got to the car and decided not to go back for a refund. I figured that there was a price increase and they never changed the sticker. Also I felt kind of sorry for them as there were zero customers in that location and none in their other location across the street. Both locations are large and are situated in an upscale district (Palo Alto) although I believe that they own both buildings. Back during the heyday of film, both locations would be crowded with customers. But nowadays once you have purchased the (digital) camera there's little or no reason to go back.

Thomas

[Deval]

I'd be willing to go on subscription plan to get direct delivery boxes if they promised to keep the prices level...

[Liquid Artist]

In Canada it's hard to get anything new saying Kodak these days.
So I didn't complain much when I saw a box of Portra 160 in 4x5 for $80.00.
I bought it, and was happy that I had when I saw the results.
It's still cheap when compared to the processing, and contact sheets which cost me $100.00, and a drum scan would be around $100.00 per sheet.

[HMG]

Everything color is going up, Fuji will have a 20% price increase in just a few months, that's what happens when people stop buying it. Keep buying it regularly instead of stockpiling it and consume it more often and the price won't spike so much, stockpile and complain and others follow suit and soon everyone is complaining and freezing their film and hesitating to shoot it instead of consuming and then another price hike happens.

That's the market, it's not just kodak.

People have always bought film in batches - whether for economic or technical (i.e. same batch) reasons. But there were enough people buying film to even it out. And I admit that there's a bit of a quantity difference between buying film in batches vs. stockpiling.

But it's still a "chicken and egg" question. Which came first - the price increases or the stockpiling? My vote is that the price increases came first. Also, given that the film production, marketing and distribution is owned by the retirement plan with pension obligations, there's more than the usual focus on near term revenue.

[axs810]

FreestylePhoto just had a price increase on 8x10 portra films... it was $161-ish now it's $173-ish


damnit

[StoneNYC]

I'm telling you guys, everyone is going to have a bout a 20% increase in their prices very soon, it just depends on when stocks deplete and they need to make new orders essentially, at least that's my prediction.

[Corran]

The yen is weak against the dollar so technically Fuji should be lowering or at least holding stable on their film prices. Constantly jacking up their prices is pure BS, from a currency standpoint.

But international pricing seems to be quite dramatically different for each company. From what I understand, Ilford is really expensive in Japan, but really cheap in the USA.

Some new Rollei film I imported from Europe ended up costing 1/3 what it costs here domestically.

[StoneNYC]

The yen is weak against the dollar so technically Fuji should be lowering or at least holding stable on their film prices. Constantly jacking up their prices is pure BS, from a currency standpoint.

But international pricing seems to be quite dramatically different for each company. From what I understand, Ilford is really expensive in Japan, but really cheap in the USA.

Some new Rollei film I imported from Europe ended up costing 1/3 what it costs here domestically.

I haven't had enough coffee yet, but if I understand global economy at all... the yen is weak, and they are buying silver and other materials to make the film from non-Japan sources, then THEIR cost has significantly increased because their buying power is lower, so in order to compensate they have to raise their price or halt production... Can't have it both ways, we live in a global environment, what looks great at first (yen dropping so cost is low) eventually catches up.

[Corran]

The yen is weak against the dollar. This means OUR price, using the dollar as currency, is making them more profit. Raising the price in US dollars makes no sense in that context.

[Drew Wiley]

Price-wise, it's only going to be another couple of years at the most until 4x5 is the new 8x10. Whether color sheet film can be sustainably manufactured after that is a serious question. Maybe they think the US will pay what they're accustomed to getting in Japan and Europe. But it's simply not going to happen. People will resort to roll film or digital, despite preferences for sheet film, simply because it will be unaffordable. I'll be one of those who simply doesn't shoot a color shot unless it's something really exceptional. That obviously means far less color film purchasing. Then you've got these cases where an official importer like Fujifilm USA seemingly doesn't factor in exchange rates or buy in a timely manner in relation to that, so holds an artificially high price outright contrary to marketing wisdom. Perhaps they have an agreement with Fuji per se to help float their mfg profits. I simply don't know. But it plainly isn't working well for us. The sad thing is that color film is peaking in quality right at the time it's clearly endangered, or in the case of chrome, already disappearing. And digital just isn't quite there yet in terms of print quality, at least in terms of what inkjet can do. Yeah, there are some hybrid hoops one could hypothetically jump thru, but that
is a much more complicated story. And don't expect help from amateurs. We know where that business has gone, and quality apparently has nothing to do with it. Now even Google is entering the virtual scrapbook business. Goodbye photo albums, if any still exist for sale. And I don't know if Kodak is on the verge of
being unable to get thick polyester base material reliably or affordably. Maybe they're running on fumes at this point. Oh well, I can't complain. I've had 35 wonderful years of printing color, and even longer shooting it. Plenty of shots on hand to work from; and of course, there's always black and white.

[Sal Santamaura]

...given that the film production...is owned by the retirement plan with pension obligations...That's incorrect. The Kodak UK pension plan owns Kodak Alaris. Kodak Alaris owns no film production. Kodak Alaris purchases the film it markets and distributes from Eastman Kodak Company.

[jp]

Pensions usually make money on dividends and stock market growth. I don't think they'd be getting much growth out of Alaris, so it's going to have to be at the expense of the consumer to fund the pension, unless Kodak UK either gets some growth out of Alaris or diversifies into other growth/income sources.

[HMG]

That's incorrect. The Kodak UK pension plan owns Kodak Alaris. Kodak Alaris owns no film production. Kodak Alaris purchases the film it markets and distributes from Eastman Kodak Company.

That's a valid point. So then the question is whether the price increases are at the Eastman Kodak end and simply passed along by Alaris - or do they represent higher margins for Alaris. I suspect none of us really know. I certainly don't.

[Corran]

Price-wise, it's only going to be another couple of years at the most until 4x5 is the new 8x10.

Don't give them any ideas.

I can't help but think both Kodak and Fuji seem to be raising prices in response to falling demand, rather than finding the "equilibrium" point.

Always relevant graph:
http://lug.wsu.edu/files/final_paper_html_m33ae3f3f.png

[Sal Santamaura]

...the question is whether the price increases are at the Eastman Kodak end and simply passed along by Alaris - or do they represent higher margins for Alaris. I suspect none of us really know...I have no insider knowledge. I suspect it's some of each factor.

[Drew Wiley]

I'm not an insider in the film industry. I am an insider regarding certain other categories of manufacturing, and scenarios might be analogous. Marketing strategy is often a matter of keeping up with the Jonses'. Corporations are spend way too much time peering over their shoulder at the competition and copying whatever they do, even if it isn't logical. I call it the lemming effect. One lemming walks off the cliff and they all follow. Or I call it monkey-see/monkey-do marketing. It's what MBA's specialize in. One monkey shoots himself in the foot and they all copy him, regardless of the consequences. I'm actually understating the problem. At this moment, I've got a big flow chart of a major distributor in our industry, which shows how the MBA's managed to bankrupt the whole nine yards in a matter of months. Seen that story over and over, so don't even really care at this point what is going on with Kodak or Fuji, since nobody seems to be listening anyway.
And I doubt any great philanthropist will come to the rescue to save color sheet film. If anything, the mega-wealthy movers and shakers have a vested interest
in seeing film go extinct. But the legit side of supply and demand is that, as demand sharply drops, it eventually becomes impossible to keep up the minimum
supply chain of supplies or coating runs. The straw finally breaks the camel's back. I don't know if removing retail markup would help or not. The mfg might just
try to pocket the difference themselves, or would run into an outright distribution rebellion if they tried to direct-market. And the latter option would leave the
door wide open to even more geek-style screwups. We just gotta wait and see, or else stock up while you can. I've got two years of drymounting backlog I'm
looking at right now. And I've got a pile of dye transfer printing supplies I'd like to fool with, and plenty of 8x10 chromes on hand. Doubt I'll ever print even a dozen of em that way. Got a big roll of Fuji Supergloss to finish, and plenty of 8x10 color negs already. So I'm not exactly at a loss what to do. In fact, just wish
I had time to print some 35mm color negs too. I get home to eight cats sitting around expecting dinner, and now even the resident raccoon is there waiting for
dinner instead of sneaking around after dark. I'm the one who has to sneak around, just to get into the darkroom!

[Wayne]

I might as well quit color now, because I can barely afford it at 32.99. Thanks, digital.

[Daniel Stone]

I might as well quit color now, because I can barely afford it at 32.99. Thanks, digital.

Just be a little extra choosy with what/how you shoot.

[Corran]

I respect that that may work for some people but I personally feel that one should shoot as much as they think they need. I'd rather shoot too much and get the shot than not enough and be left wondering "what if." I feel no remorse taking a casual hike and shooting a dozen sheets of film, if that's what I needed to shoot.

What I suggest to those who have tight budgets is to buy the equipment and chemicals to develop your own color film. It's really not that difficult, and once your developing cost for color film goes down from ~$3/sheet to like ~$0.50 per sheet (if you shoot it enough), the film is practically "free."

[Wayne]

Just be a little extra choosy with what/how you shoot.

already am.

[Wayne]

Um...49.95 is 4.99 per sheet, not $3




I respect that that may work for some people but I personally feel that one should shoot as much as they think they need. I'd rather shoot too much and get the shot than not enough and be left wondering "what if." I feel no remorse taking a casual hike and shooting a dozen sheets of film, if that's what I needed to shoot.

What I suggest to those who have tight budgets is to buy the equipment and chemicals to develop your own color film. It's really not that difficult, and once your developing cost for color film goes down from ~$3/sheet to like ~$0.50 per sheet (if you shoot it enough), the film is practically "free."

[Corran]

I thought it was obvious that I was referencing the $32.99 price that may still be available at some retailers. The point remains the same.

[nlambrecht]

B&H dropped the price to $36.95 yesterday, Adorama still has it at $49.95. Maybe until the big two figure out what they are doing we should all just support Badger and other "smaller" retailers who kept the price the same.

[HMG]

B&H dropped the price to $36.95 yesterday, Adorama still has it at $49.95. Maybe until the big two figure out what they are doing we should all just support Badger and other "smaller" retailers who kept the price the same.

I'm not disagreeing with supporting Badger, but I suspect that Alaris may have backed off on the price increase. Or even made a clerical error in the original increased price.

[tgtaylor]

... I suspect that Alaris may have backed off on the price increase. Or even made a clerical error in the original increased price...

Highly unlikely. Let's face it: The price increase was by B&H and Adorama and copied by smaller retailers like my local store.

Thomas

[HMG]

Highly unlikely. Let's face it: The price increase was by B&H and Adorama and copied by smaller retailers like my local store.

Thomas

Well, you obviously have some inside information the rest of us lack.

[Wayne]

How much was your local store charging before?


Highly unlikely. Let's face it: The price increase was by B&H and Adorama and copied by smaller retailers like my local store.

Thomas

[StoneNYC]

The buyers sometimes get info on notices and don't want to lose their jobs by not increasing the sales price and being stuck with a negative producing purchase, so sometimes they "jump the gun" and I'm sure the big retailers get a heads up BEFORE the little guy does and that's the reason the bigger retailers price changes before the smaller retailers, it's not because the bigger ones are trying to "get us" it's because they are more efficient, B&H is like a smoothly oiled machine, they have the power to have a dedicated team just to adjust online price catalogues, little retailer has one guy, who is probably not a web guru, and probably makes changes once a week when he has time to sit down and do it.

It's all scale gentlemen...

That's also why B&H could quickly lower it to $36 and I'm sure the others will follow suit soon as they can get to it.

It's not a conspiracy and it's not rocket science, it's just business...

[EdSawyer]

It's nice B&H is getting back to reality with that price, but that is still $2-4 higher than what it was a few weeks ago ($32.95 or $34.95, I forget...). Hopefully Portra will come down again too...

[Drew Wiley]

Look at 8x10 Ektar - it's right up there with Portra. I went thru the freezer yesterday to figure out what I need more of in reserve, and what I don't.

[axs810]

Its weird BHPhoto now sells 4x5 Portra 400 less than the Portra 160...for as long as I've been buying from them it's always the other way around. BHPhoto's 8x10 portra film prices aren't too bad right now either.



BTW, Freestyle just added Portra 400 in 220 to their website! Cool stuff