Strange behaviour of a Linhof Schneider 90 XL

[Grumium]

A friends just showed me his Linhof branded Schneider 90 XL. He bought it second hand a while ago. Perfectly mint condition. As we removed the rear cell for mounting the lens onto the lens board, my eye caught two issues:

1) The shutter blades are touching the glass surface of the front element. There is already a faint mark on the surface.

2) The aperture mechanism isn't concentric to the shutter and lens elements. Please find some images attached.

133377 133378 133379

I am wondering how a lens like that could pass the Linhof quality inspections...

[Bob Salomon]

Who said that that was condition when it was originally sold?

[Jac@stafford.net]

A friends just showed me his Linhof branded Schneider 90 XL. He bought it second hand a while ago. Perfectly mint condition.

Clearly, it was not mint.
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[Grumium]

There is no reason to assume that the previous owner (who was the first owner) did do harm to the lens or has swapped different elements. He isn't that type of guy and has sold many lenses - I think that he even sent the lens to Linhof Munich to mount it onto a different board.

Does sound issue 1) new to you? I had the same issue with my Linhof Schneider 72 XL - which I bought new back at the time.

[ic-racer]

As we removed the rear cell for mounting the lens onto the lens board

Doesn't it come already mounted on the lensboard? I suspect someone tampered with the lens. How long is the lens? 95.9mm?

[Jac@stafford.net]

Maybe that Linhof select business is a bunch of baloney.

And you speak from experience? I think not.

Read up. (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?79218-Validity-of-quot-Linhof-Select-quot&p=760903&viewfull=1#post760903)

[Grumium]

How could somebody treat a lens in a way so that the aperture mechanism is off-center like it is now and without leaving the slightest traces on both the shutter and lens elements at the same time? The aperture mechanism works as smooth as it can get.

As TAG already said: I wouldn't accept such a lens new even if it comes directly from Schneider w/o Linhof in between.

If we are talking about Linhof's rigorous testing: What are they testing exactly? Bob described somewhere else that they have a certain light pattern which is used to determine performance. Is it done wide open? Do they really care for the position of the aperture blades whether it is in z or radial direction? Doesn't a lens manufacturer like Schneider have more specialized testing methods?

[JimL]

The off-center aperture is something I've seen in some later Copal 0 shutters with 7 blades (vs. 5 blade variants). The 7-bladed mechanism seems more prone to this, and it's most noticeable at the wide-open end of the scale. Whether it's considered a QC issue or has any perceivable image effects I don't know.

[Jac@stafford.net]

With respect Grumium, please consider that Linhof and Schneider know what they do. It is far more likely that a previous owner is responsible for an unacceptable lens, probably unintended. All that was necessary is a drop to a compliant surface such as a firm carpet, or transport through a rough passage.

That's a rule of likelihoods.
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[Bob Salomon]

B
How could somebody treat a lens in a way so that the aperture mechanism is off-center like it is now and without leaving the slightest traces on both the shutter and lens elements at the same time? The aperture mechanism works as smooth as it can get.

As TAG already said: I wouldn't accept such a lens new even if it comes directly from Schneider w/o Linhof in between.

If we are talking about Linhof's rigorous testing: What are they testing exactly? Bob described somewhere else that they have a certain light pattern which is used to determine performance. Is it done wide open? Do they really care for the position of the aperture blades whether it is in z or radial direction? Doesn't a lens manufacturer like Schneider have more specialized testing methods?

I suggest that you search for one of my replies that detailed what the Linhof testing is. It is not what you just described.

[Jac@stafford.net]

[...] If we are talking about Linhof's rigorous testing: What are they testing exactly? Bob described somewhere else that they have a certain light pattern which is used to determine performance. Is it done wide open? Do they really care for the position of the aperture blades whether it is in z or radial direction? Doesn't a lens manufacturer like Schneider have more specialized testing methods?

Your answer is in your question. You do not know enough about testing, and more important you do not take into account the damage a lens can incur after leaving the manufacture, or the damage occurring from the previous owners. Please do not assume lenses are impervious to damage after the manufacture.

[Luis-F-S]

Who said that that was condition when it was originally sold?

+1! If you didn't buy it new, then you have no idea how it left the factory, or what's happened to it since then! L

[Mark Sampson]

I have a Linhof-branded Schneider Super-Angulon (a 121/8) that dates from 1957, and long ago had a 90/8 SA of similar vintage. We don't know how old your lens is; a lot can happen to a lens in 50+ years. I have a tough time seeing your problem as a manufacturing defect.

[Grumium]

Yep, you are probably right. We will never find out what happened to the lens (age 15) before. Best of all: it isn't mine ;-)

[Old-N-Feeble]

As a side note: If one buys a used lens then try to get a return privilege within a reasonable time frame... say two weeks in-hand.