Newbie question: how best to use a 9x12 ICA Reflex?

[ivanlietaert]

I'm a total beginner at large format photography. I have bought an old ICA Dresden Reflex camera with a Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 180mm F4.5 lens, which after cleaning, seems to be in mint condition. The camera takes 9X12 film. The camera seems to function alright and I have managed to clean most of it, inside and outside.

I was planning to modify the camera by putting a Belair Instant Back on it. Do you think this is an ok thing to do, or should I keep the camera in its original form?

Any advice/opinion is welcome.
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[Jac@stafford.net]

You would end up with ~4" x 2.5" exposure if that's good with you.
Be very careful with the modification so that the reflex remains
faithful, accurate or you just have a bad Lomo camera. (I do not
know if the back can be modified properly. Someone else can
help us.
.

[Oren Grad]

Welcome to the forum!

The shape of the Belair instant back is designed to wrap around the Belair camera body. So it's tricky to adapt it to other cameras in a way that puts the film plane in the same place as it was originally in the camera you're attaching it to. If you want that, you'll need to do major surgery on the Belair back, the camera, or both. Or you can attach it with some sort of spacing adaptor, and accept that you'll need to make a focus correction between what the focusing screen tells you and what the back needs. Or, you can contrive some sort of auxiliary focusing back that puts a new focusing screen in the same plane as the Belair puts the film.

If you look on the web, you can find others who have done Belair back adaptations to various cameras.

Good luck!

[Bill_1856]

9x12 is a nice size of film -- plenty of B&W available. Lots of holders available for it used and inexpensive.
I'd keep what you've got, and enjoy it.

[IanG]

9x12 is a nice size of film -- plenty of B&W available. Lots of holders available for it used and inexpensive.
I'd keep what you've got, and enjoy it.

I agree I have a few 9x12 cameras and film's easy to get as are plate holders but you need film inserts.

Ian

[ivanlietaert]

9x12 is a nice size of film -- plenty of B&W available. Lots of holders available for it used and inexpensive.
I'd keep what you've got, and enjoy it.

You are right about the 9x12 film holders, but I'm not sure if they will fit the ICA Dresden. Coul you help me a bit more, here?

[Michael E]

International holders have the same outside dimensions for 4x5" and 9x12cm film, but will not fit your camera. 9x12cm glass plate holders were not standardized, though there were a few widely used models. Make sure you get the right kind for your camera.

[jcoldslabs]

Below are two Ica catalog pages, the first from 1922 and the second from 1925. I can't tell which model your camera is, but if it is the Model 756 it takes the Ica 721/6 single plate holders, and if it is the Model 750 it uses the 739/6 double-sided plate holders. Personally, I would try to find some original holders and shoot with the camera as-is. As Ian mentions, these should not be too difficult to find and then all you need are some 9x12 film sheaths and you're ready to go.

You can see a photo of a 721/6 holder here (http://www.apug.org/forums/viewpost.php?p=1315510).


http://kolstad.us/ebay/ICAREFLEX756.jpg


http://kolstad.us/ebay/ICAREFLEX750.jpg

Jonathan

[Daniel Unkefer]

Figure out which holders fit your camera and then use it as intended.

[ivanlietaert]

It comes with a holder with the marking 723/12, with dark plate. There is, how ever, a square cut out.
133356

So if I can do something about the square cut-out, then I can put film sheet in it? But I can only put one in a a time, and I need to do this in a dark room? So I would need to find more of these, if not, I can only go out to take just one picture? Is that correct? (I'm a newbie, please be patient with me.)

Question: what use is the cut-out?

[Tim Meisburger]

That looks like a film pack holder. Unfortunately film packs are no longer made. That can be converted to a plate holder (for wet plate) or film holder, but yes, will only give you one shot. The good news is that you now know exactly what size holder you need!

You can buy a dark bag (film changing bag) from eBay and change film in that if you don't have a dark closet. I did that for a long time, but now use a closet I made light tight with weatherstrip.

[jcoldslabs]

As far as I know, Ica used the xxx/6 designation for 9x12cm holders, and the xxx/12 for 10x15cm. If the pack film holder you have fits your camera properly, then you probably have a 10x15 camera which would mean you'd need to look for some 721/12 plate holders.

Jonathan

[ivanlietaert]

As far as I know, Ica used the xxx/6 designation for 9x12cm holders, and the xxx/12 for 10x15cm. If the pack film holder you have fits your camera properly, then you probably have a 10x15 camera which would mean you'd need to look for some 721/12 plate holders.

Jonathan

The marking on the holder that comes with the camera says '723/12'. Would 721/12 work too, in your opinion?

[jcoldslabs]

The 723/12 designation is for a pack film holder. If the one you currently have properly fits your camera, then a 721/12 should work also. The 721/12 was made to hold a single glass plate or, when used with a film sheath, one sheet of film at a time. The pack film holder was made to hold an entire film pack. Film packs are no longer manufactured, and trying to modify the pack holder to take a single sheet of film would be difficult. I suppose it depends on whether or not you are eager to shoot with the camera right away. If so, you may want to consider any modification that allows you to use it as soon as possible. If you are willing to wait, I think you should be able to buy the holders and sheaths you need to use the camera as it was originally intended.

Jonathan

[IanG]

You have a film pack holder, not really much use.

I dug out some 9x12 plate holders for someone else last month I may still have some ICA & I think Hüttig (became part of ICA) holders. I'll check later today.

Ian

[Daniel Unkefer]

It comes with a holder with the marking 723/12, with dark plate. There is, how ever, a square cut out.
133356

So if I can do something about the square cut-out, then I can put film sheet in it? But I can only put one in a a time, and I need to do this in a dark room? So I would need to find more of these, if not, I can only go out to take just one picture? Is that correct? (I'm a newbie, please be patient with me.)

Question: what use is the cut-out?

Yes the sheet film holders take one sheet at a time, and must be loaded in the darkroom. A metal plate called a "septum" goes inside and holds the film. Most of these single sheet holders were intended for use with glass plates. So you need 9x12cm holders and 9x12cm septums, which you load with 9x12cm sheet film, in the darkroom.

I'm not an ICA person, but what you have there looks to me like a pack film holder. You can not get pack film any more, it was manufactured long ago.

[ivanlietaert]

I have bought 5 plate holders 9x12 on *bay. From the pictures, I think/hope they will fit the camera. There was not designation 721/12, it just said 9x12. Now I hope they will fit my camera.
I also was lucky: I found and bought an original ICA Dresden tripod too. I have a very complete camera now! Let's start making pictures!:D

I have now decided to keep the camera in its original state, and to use it as it was intended. So no conversion. I think I will be able to use it with Instax wide without conversion, anyhow. In the long run, I will start with sheetfilm too.

Thanks for all the advice people gave me here. Of course, I'll post my first results here as soon as I get them!

[Daniel Unkefer]

You could also probably get a roll film back for it, if you are diligent and not in a hurry. 120 roll film is convenient!
If the holders don't fit, sell them on and try again. I have bought many holders that don't fit my cameras.
There were many many many kinds made. Only way is to try it. Sheet film and roll film all have their uses.

Looks like a fun camera! :)

[IanG]

Good luck there's little standardisation of 9x12 plate holders until after WWII and so there's quite a few variations. It doesn't help that some of the pre-WWII catalogues showing edge types aren't very accurate.

The Ica should take a double lip (grooved) edged plate holder which also fit Goerz and some Ernemann cameras. I've checked and have 5 Hüttig 9x12 plate holders of this fit that would be prepared to sell as they fit none of my 9x12 cameras (they do fit a scrap Ernemann body).

Ian

[ivanlietaert]

Iag, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

[IanG]

Iag, I'll keep that in mind. Thanks!

Just checked and they do actually say "ICA" Hüttig Dresden.

Ian

[DrTang]

point it at interesting things or people, click shutter

[ivanlietaert]

Here is my first try!
Thanks to all of you, especially J Caldwell and Photonsoup for their instructive videos

Just for reference:
Camera: ICA Dresden Reflex + Carl Zeiss Jena Tessar 180mm f4.5 @ 4.5 (dating back to around 1926)
Film: Instax Wide (after exposure with ICA returned into and developed in Instax 210)

There are obvious lightleaks: could be my handling in (not so) dark room, or in-camera, or leaky film holder. Need more experimenting. Any opinion welcome!

133376

[ivanlietaert]

And here is my second try. No lightleaks this time, but bad framing. Compare it with similar shot taken with the Instax 210.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8867/17183519320_938bd6d943_c.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8879/16750809003_ee7810c520_c.jpg