Wisner, Zone VI. Or Shen Hao? Field camera help?!

[Mister Sith]

I'm about to pull the trigger on a field camera. Initially I really was looking at the older Zone VI cameras, but have since discovered the Wisner Technical. I also have an opportunity to purchase a Shen Hao HZX IIA. I know these are all quite different, but what would be the best option assuming they're all available at the same price for some one with LF experience?

[Ken Lee]

You don't mention film size: 4x5 ?

Consider size, weight and features.

Which features do you need most ? For example, bellows draw: the 4x5 Wisner Technical Field has wonderful long bellows draw, enough to use a 450mm lens at infinity or a 210mm lens at 1:1. If you never plan to do that, you don't need that feature... etc.

Size and weight matter if you plan to travel, hike or trek. If not, why get a field camera in the first place ?

Front rise/fall: which has the most ? Do you care ? It depends on what you shoot.

Ability to shoot short lenses: do you need interchangeable bellows so that you can use a bag bellows ? Do they all provide bag bellows ? Do you care ? Do you ever shoot with very short lenses ? If not, forgetaboutit... etc.

We choose the camera based on intended use, not the other way around :)

[Bruce Barlow]

Richard Ritter seems to make a pretty nice living off of repairing Wisners. He makes less of a nice living repairing Zone VIs. The bellows draw will be basically the same, as are most of the specs. I think Richard also has Zone VI bag bellows in stock for immediate gratification.

[Joseph Kayne]

You should also look at Wista wooden field camera. I think the Vermont Zone VI is the best built of them all. If you can find one in good condition I would go for it. If you will be hiking far distances and the bellows is not an issue, I would say the Wista.

[lenser]

I can only speak of my satisfaction with the Zone VI which is ongoing after more than twenty years of both heavy duty professional architectural work as well as quite a lot of field work for personal landscape shooting. I did have one modification done to add bubble levels to the left side and on the one open position the back. That was to make it possible o work the levels when the back was flipped to be open on the left side in cases where I had the camera up against a door frame on the right hand side and when shooting outside with the sun coming into the right hand side of the camera and desiring to flip the back to avoid any possible leaks. I would have done that with any of these cameras that did not already feature levels in those spots.

[John Kasaian]

Used? The physical condition should be #1. A loosey goosey or leaky bellows ain't gonna do anyone any good unless you want a restoration project,

[Alan Gales]

.

We choose the camera based on intended use, not the other way around :)

This quote needs to be a sticky on here and APUG and probably every other photography forum!

[Bruce Barlow]

With my dissertation about Zone VI and Wisner, I will heartily agree with the Wista recommendation. It is my go-to 4x5.

[Mister Sith]

From looking at the cameras further, its looking like the Wisner Technical and Zone VI are the best candidates for the work I wanted to do. I was looking at the Shen Hao because it seemed like the most versatile, but I really do not think I'll be needing the back extensive movements. I should mention that I am looking at the Wisner and the actual Zone VI produced cameras. I was straying away from the Wista and Tachihara versions due to the glued bellows.

I guess my question is, if I were to choose between a Wisner Technical and the Zone VI (manufactured by either Wisner or themselves), which would be a smarter option? I am just going to look at a Wisner Tech at Adorama later this afternoon, while I'd have to find a Zone VI probably on here on the forums.

[Louis Pacilla]

From looking at the cameras further, its looking like the Wisner Technical and Zone VI are the best candidates for the work I wanted to do. I was looking at the Shen Hao because it seemed like the most versatile, but I really do not think I'll be needing the back extensive movements. I should mention that I am looking at the Wisner and the actual Zone VI produced cameras. I was straying away from the Wista and Tachihara versions due to the glued bellows.

I guess my question is, if I were to choose between a Wisner Technical and the Zone VI (manufactured by either Wisner or themselves), which would be a smarter option? I am just going to look at a Wisner Tech at Adorama later this afternoon, while I'd have to find a Zone VI probably on here on the forums.

I have a Wisner 8x10 Tech and LOVE it for what I use it for. It's not my lightest 8x10 camera for sure but it's stability (for a folding camera), extra generous movements and very long bellows (for a folding camera) makes her a winner (for not to far from car and table top close up stuff) in my eyes. Not to mention it has that old world beauty & not the high tech gizmos of this day and age. I must admit that I own a few cameras that use the modern building materials as well.

A friend of mine has a Zone VI 4x5 which he seems to enjoy using and it's not his only camera to chose from.

[AJ Edmondson]

The Wisner Tech Field is not very friendly with short focal lengths and I found it a little too "fiddly" for my purpose... the Wisner Std (without the rear rise/fall) might have suited me better but - in my experience - I found too much about the camera that just didn't impress me. I understand that Richard has some nice modifications that are worth considering (bail-back and replacement of the screws for the lens board lock). Good luck with whichever you choose!

Joel

[koh303]

From looking at the cameras further, its looking like the Wisner Technical and Zone VI are the best candidates for the work I wanted to do. I was looking at the Shen Hao because it seemed like the most versatile, but I really do not think I'll be needing the back extensive movements. I should mention that I am looking at the Wisner and the actual Zone VI produced cameras. I was straying away from the Wista and Tachihara versions due to the glued bellows.

I guess my question is, if I were to choose between a Wisner Technical and the Zone VI (manufactured by either Wisner or themselves), which would be a smarter option? I am just going to look at a Wisner Tech at Adorama later this afternoon, while I'd have to find a Zone VI probably on here on the forums.

There are various cameras with far superior rear standard movement then those two, one being the Shen hao PTB/Chamonix 45n1. Even the HZK/TZ models have by far more rear mvements then the wisner/zvi, with the latter having massive rear shift and rise options which are probably the most useful movements on any technical camera.

You should also consider the slightly more expensive, but very capable (yet not so solid) canham DLC, if you wanted massive movements, this camera has only one restriction - the bellows.

[Gary Samson]

Richard Ritter seems to make a pretty nice living off of repairing Wisners. He makes less of a nice living repairing Zone VIs. The bellows draw will be basically the same, as are most of the specs. I think Richard also has Zone VI bag bellows in stock for immediate gratification.

I have owned a Wisner 4x5 Technical View Camera since 1991 and exposed thousands of sheets of film with it. It has never been repaired or serviced in any way. I have used 47mm through 240mm lenses regularly without any problems and all the movements required to execute the shot.

[Mister Sith]

Thank you all for the wonderful and informative feedback! I checked out a Wisner Classic this afternoon at Adorama, which gave me a good idea of what to expect with a Wisner Tech. I think I've finally narrowed it down and decided on the Wisner Tech, although the ZVI is still very appealing!

[Willie]

Look carefully here at all the complaints on Wisner cameras and figure if you buy one you will be sending it to Richard Ritter one of these days.

[Bruce Barlow]

I have owned a Wisner 4x5 Technical View Camera since 1991 and exposed thousands of sheets of film with it. It has never been repaired or serviced in any way. I have used 47mm through 240mm lenses regularly without any problems and all the movements required to execute the shot.

That's great for you! Not all share that good a track record.

[Doremus Scudder]

Mister Sith,

I'm going to chime in here, hoping to help clarify things a bit before you make your choice.

One thing that nobody has mentioned yet is the different size/weight categories among cameras you are looking at. I own a Ritter Zone VI camera, a Wista DX (two of them actually) and a Woodman. I've looked at and handled most of the others with the exception of the Chamonix and the new Shen Hao PTB.

You can divide this type of field camera into two categories: 1. short, light and streamlined in features and 2. Heavy (heavier at least), bigger and bulkier but with long bellows and more movements.

Category 1
I work mostly in the field, do a lot of backpacking/hiking or work in cities out of a backpack (often riding my bicycle with the pack on). For this I need lightweight and small.

In the U.S. I really, really like my Wista DX for this. It weighs just over three pounds, folds up with a lens mounted (something most do not) and, with top-hat and recessed lensboards can use lenses (albeit compact ones) from 75mm to 300mm (maybe even 65mm, but I haven't tried). I can carry camera and four lenses easily in a lumbar pack. My hiking kit weighs less than many 35mm or MF kits.

In Europe, I use a Woodman; also lightweight, but not able to fold up with a lens mounted. Both this and the Wista have 12"/300mm of bellows draw, shift on one of the standards (I can't live without shift; you can't either if you plan to do any architectural work! Avoid the Wista DX II and any camera without shift! but I digress...). They also have front and rear swings and tilts and can be used for less-demanding architectural shots if needed (a gridded ground glass is indispensable). I've modified both these cameras with levels to help there as well.

Downside to this category is shorter bellows and lack of bag-bellows if you need extensive movements. Plus, you have to master base tilts and the "point-and-swing/tilt" technique if you need more shift/rise than the camera will allow.

Category 2
This includes the Wisner, Zone VI, the larger Tachis and Shen Hao cameras. They weigh in at around 5-6 pounds, are physically larger (the "box" is larger by 25% or so, so the camera takes up more space than category 1 cameras), generally have enough bellows draw to use lenses in the 360-450mm category (my Zone VI just takes the 450mm with a bit of modification to hold the front standard out farther), and have more extensive movements. My Ritter Zone VI is a workhorse; solid if not finished as nicely as others, and has the advantage of interchangeable bellows. If you get this (or the Wisner) and plan to do a lot of work with short lenses (90mm and shorter), I'd advise getting a bag bellows. My Zone VI didn't work well with shorter lenses until I modified it to accept recessed Technika lensboards. I'm not sure there were stock recessed boards available for it or not, but if there are, get them for your shorter lenses.

Bigger cameras are usually more rugged and can take larger lenses (with larger image circles/faster). I have compact/slow lenses (largest being a SA 90mm f/8) and the maximum aperture on most is around f/8-f/9. If you need a brighter image, then think about lens choice before choosing a camera.

FWIW, as much as I like the Zone VI, it ends up staying in the car/at home most of the time since it is roughly twice the weight and size of the Wista and I usually am in rugged country hiking. If I weren't I would use it more. Your choice will depend on how you plan to use the camera.

Another note: I haven't tried out the Chamonix or the Shen Hao PTB. Both are very lightweight and have a different design than most folding field cameras. They manage a longer bellows and lots of movements in a lightweight package. I will certainly look at them when I get around to needing another camera. If I can deal with the front movements, I would think they would be an ideal compromise.

Hope this helps,

Doremus

[William Whitaker]

Look carefully here at all the complaints on Wisner cameras and figure if you buy one you will be sending it to Richard Ritter one of these days.

I have had quite a number of Wisner cameras from 4x5 through 8x10 to 11x14 and currently have the 14x17. There is nothing inherently wrong or bad about cameras made by Wisner. A large number of complaints about business operating practices have unfortunately sullied the reputation of the products themselves. Any camera may eventually require the services of a qualified repair person. For the most part, Wisner cameras are well-made and capable cameras. I would urge you to consider them without bias as you would any other camera.

[lbenac]

I had a Chamonix 45N2, a Wista 45DX but I finally settled on a Shen Hao XPO45.
It is non folding, very sturdy and the ergonomics just work better for me.

Cheers,

Luc