Kodak OC safelight filters

[MrFujicaman]

Since the 5.5 inch round ones are now $92 from B & H, I've been trying to figure out a work-a-round. Does anybody know the spectral response curve of the OC filter so I can see if Rosco has anything that might work ?

[Jerry Bodine]

http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedfiles/Kodak/motion/Products/Lab_And_Post_Production/Kodak_Filters/Safelights/safelight_OC.pdf

[neil poulsen]

There are a ton of these available used on EBay.

But in fact, I was advised advised against using them by John Wimberley. So instead, I've installed #1 Red.

[adelorenzo]

I use these ones that sell new for the equivalent of about $30 USD. I'm sure someone in the USA sells them as well.

http://store.khbphotografix.com/Premier-OC-type-Amber-5-inch-diameter-Filter-for-Kodak-Safelights.html

[Eric Woodbury]

I'm using these in either Amber or Red with no filter.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/2-watt-g11-globe-bulb-360-degree/440/

[scheinfluger_77]

I'm using these in either Amber or Red with no filter.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/2-watt-g11-globe-bulb-360-degree/440/

According the chart it looks like the amber's have little spikeys all the way down the spectrum. You are not having any fogging problems?

[Eric Woodbury]

No fog in the darkroom. I keep that outside.

The spectrum for yellow appears noisy. Not sure why that would be. Even if real, very few peaks to the left with very little area under the peaks. The peaks or "spikeys" to the right don't matter. That is to the red end of things and paper is not sensitive there.

That said, I have 2 amber lamps and 4 red lamps. I prefer the reds since they work with more different kinds of emulsions and thus I need not worry about fogging even with ortho or the Russian paper. Finally, the total power is lower with LEDs (almost all the lights in my DR are LEDs) and the load on my A/C is lower. I like electricity but hate waste.

[scheinfluger_77]

Pretty cool. You could wire up light everywhere you need it, not just centrally.

[Tin Can]

Pretty cool. You could wire up light everywhere you need it, not just centrally.

That's what I do. I have 5 burning all the time.

Then I turn off the white.

[MrFujicaman]

I do have some red filters I found for the safelights, but I much prefer the OC filters. The red and amber LED light look interesting and I might try them. I've always wondered-which kills the safelight filters, the light or the heat from the light bulbs. I tend to think it's the heat.

I do think I'll be buying white LED bulbs for the normal room light....no afterglow problem-plus I want to keep heat down.

[Tin Can]

The OC filters I have been tossing out all have pinholes or worse and require a patch with tape, age, heat and fumes may be the cause.

Try a red LED, you will be surprised if you test the one I have recommended over and over. Many here use it.

This one. (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/2-watt-g11-globe-bulb-360-degree/440/#/attributes/13)

Or this one. (http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-25W-Equivalent-GP19-LED-Light-Bulb-Red-ECS-GP19-RED-NDM-120-BL/205351458) I also wrote a review for it on the site.

[bigdog]

Try a red LED, you will be surprised if you test the one I have recommended over and over. Many here use it.

This one. (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/2-watt-g11-globe-bulb-360-degree/440/#/attributes/13)

I concur. I have been a staunch supporter of what I call "proper" safelights on forums for years. What I was always talking about was a real safelight, as opposed to a random red light bulb from Home Depot or a string of red Christmas lights. However, I have to admit that I invested in these particular LEDs for testing, and they tested well in my darkroom situation. That's the bottom line: ANY safelight must be tested! Test, test, test. But these bulbs are cheap enough to try! I use a combination of fixtures with standard OC filters, and two of these bulbs (big darkroom).

[RSalles]

Randy,


Simple question inquiring minds wants to know:

I have bought 2 of the led red lamps you pointed at from superbrightleds, and the CS there is annoying me with billing address and home address even if the purchase was made via PayPal - already peyed, BTW. Did you ever had any problem with this store at any time?
Next email received I'll cancel the buy and try the other lamp at Home Depot or elsewhere, dam'it,

:)

Cheers,

Renato

[Tin Can]

Randy,


Simple question inquiring minds wants to know:

I have bought 2 of the led red lamps you pointed at from superbrightleds, and the CS there is annoying me with billing address and home address even if the purchase was made via PayPal - already peyed, BTW. Did you ever had any problem with this store at any time?
Next email received I'll cancel the buy and try the other lamp at Home Depot or elsewhere, dam'it,

:)

Cheers,

Renato

Sorry Renato, I did receive your email, but lost it in the piles I get everyday. My apologies. I delete nearly every email. But obviously I read yours. My mistake.

I have ordered from that store 3 times, without trouble.

I also use Pay Pal with any business that takes it, but have had weird address issues a couple times. I must be their best customer...

The HD bulb is 3 times the output so it needs greater distance or bounce it off a wall or ceiling.

Best, Randy Moe

[IanG]

OC filters are the best for VC papers, because of image bleach with Red safelights (Herschel effect) you may not be able to get the higher contrast grades.

Ilford use a very low amber safelights in their B&W paper confectioning area, the intensity is very significantly lower than normal darkroom use.

Ian

[Tin Can]

Herschel effect
Herschel effect [′hər·shəl i‚fekt]
(graphic arts)
The reaction whereby a photographic image on silver chloride is destroyed by exposure to red light. Also known as visual Herschel effect.
The reaction whereby a latent photographic image in gelatin emulsion which is not dye-sensitized is destroyed by exposure to red light. Also known as latent Herschel effect.

[IanG]

Herschel effect
Herschel effect [′hər·shəl i‚fekt]
(graphic arts)
The reaction whereby a photographic image on silver chloride is destroyed by exposure to red light. Also known as visual Herschel effect.
The reaction whereby a latent photographic image in gelatin emulsion which is not dye-sensitized is destroyed by exposure to red light. Also known as latent Herschel effect.


The Herschel effect is used for Direct Positive materials where an emulsion is sensitised to one spectral range and pre exposed and the latent image destroyed by a diffrent part of the spectrum.

Ian

[Tin Can]

I know nothing about that.

However, I never have my VC paper under 'safelight' very long. My paper is always, in the OE box, then transferred quicking in quantity to Paper Safe, exposure no more than 20 seconds, I focus my enlarger then take paper out and very quickly expose and right in to the soup. No more than 60 seconds total non enlarging time.

I see no effects. Perhaps Graphic Arts have a different workflow.

I also cut X-Ray under these bulbs, and take my time. Perhaps 10 minutes to cut four 8x10 X-Ray film sheets into about thirty 2-1/4 X 3-1/4 films and load inyo holders. Again no noticeable effect. ymmv

OC is impossible for me, as I see nothing.

[RSalles]

Sorry Renato, I did receive your email, but lost it in the piles I get everyday. My apologies. I delete nearly every email. But obviously I read yours. My mistake.

I have ordered from that store 3 times, without trouble.

I also use Pay Pal with any business that takes it, but have had weird address issues a couple times. I must be their best customer...

The HD bulb is 3 times the output so it needs greater distance or bounce it off a wall or ceiling.

Best, Randy Moe


Thanks, Randy, last year I had the chance to setup my last B&W lab and had as a gift a nice safe-light, but unfortunately the amber filter which came with it's almost unusable, too dark.
If everything goes nicely with the store it would be great, let's see,

Cheers,

Renato

[MrFujicaman]

Okay, Randy, I'm going to try the red LED's you like. If they don't work, I'm building a catapult to fling Saltzman enlargers at your house!

[Tin Can]

Okay, Randy, I'm going to try the red LED's you like. If they don't work, I'm building a catapult to fling Saltzman enlargers at your house!

Be quick about it. I'm moving and will be hard to target.

Do remember to test for yourself and maintain the normal 4 ft distance.

:)

[MrFujicaman]

Well, I just couldn't wrap my head around the idea of $92 for a round Kodak safelight filter! It kills me that a Premier 10" by 12" safelight filter is only about $29 and the 5.5 inch Kodak is now nearly $100. For the price of one new OC filter I could buy 30 of these little LED bulbs!

[John Layton]

Funny thing...my old Thomas Duplex sodium vapor safelight flunked - even with the vanes closed - when I started using Ilford VC papers a few years back. And a really funny thing is what passed the test - the large type OC globe/bulb combos that come pretty cheap from B+H! With a bit of black tape over a couple of pinholes...Bob's your uncle!

[denverjims]

I use Ilford MG Classic mostly and matching up its spectral sensitivity curve & the Amber LED's curve (one recommended earlier in this post) it looks like you'd need to be pretty careful to minimize exposure with it. Ilford recommends a 580 cutoff and that bulb puts out energy a fair amount beyond it.

Not saying it couldn't be used but the red one looks to be a fair amount 'safer'.

Also tried to follow the link to the Kodak OC spectral curve given but it appears to be dead. Anyone have a current one?
Thanks, Jim

[John Layton]

Jim...the bulb I'm referring to is the Delta-1 OC-Amber. I've used a number of OC-Amber filters in the past...and when compared to them these particular bulbs are actually a bit on the red side - which is why I suspect that they are safe for Ilford multigrade papers. A recent B+H review from another person sounds similar to my experience with these bulbs.

I have not searched for a spectral curve on the Delta-1's - but I suspect that the factory tweaked them to work with VC papers.

I also suspect that your amber led's are more accurately "amber" than are my Delta-1 bulbs.

[Jerry Bodine]

...Also tried to follow the link to the Kodak OC spectral curve given but it appears to be dead. Anyone have a current one?...

Jim, try this pdf link. It's working for me:
http://motion.kodak.com/KodakGCG/uploadedfiles/motion/Kodak/motion/Products/Lab_And_Post_Production/Kodak_Filters/Safelights/safelight_OC.pdf

[denverjims]

Jim, try this pdf link. It's working for me:
http://motion.kodak.com/KodakGCG/uploadedfiles/motion/Kodak/motion/Products/Lab_And_Post_Production/Kodak_Filters/Safelights/safelight_OC.pdf

This link worked like a champ. Thanks, Jerry
Regards, Jim

[denverjims]

Jim...the bulb I'm referring to is the Delta-1 OC-Amber.

John, apologies for my not being specific. I was referring to the amber one pointed to in Eric's post in this thread (#5). I'll look into the Delta-1 OC.
Regards, Jim

[MrFujicaman]

Okay, Randy, so far I'm sold. My shipment of 4 of the tiny ones came in today. I played around with them in the darkroom and for only being 2 watts they are very bright. I stuck them in some Kodak "Beehive" safelights without filters and 5 X 7 safelight-again with no filter and they really light the place up. I bought 4 of the Superbrite bulbs and I found a Home Depot one I'd bought and misplaced last year. I might bounce it off the ceiling as you recommend. Soon as the darkroom is up and running, I'll run some tests.

[Tin Can]

Okay, Randy, so far I'm sold. My shipment of 4 of the tiny ones came in today. I played around with them in the darkroom and for only being 2 watts they are very bright. I stuck them in some Kodak "Beehive" safelights without filters and 5 X 7 safelight-again with no filter and they really light the place up. I bought 4 of the Superbrite bulbs and I found a Home Depot one I'd bought and misplaced last year. I might bounce it off the ceiling as you recommend. Soon as the darkroom is up and running, I'll run some tests.

Do not use the the Home Depot bulb. I tried it. No good.

Do bounce these off the walls (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/g11-led-bulb-8-smd-led-globe-bulb/440/#/attributes/13).

Do use red only, not amber.

I also use Beehives, no filter.

[adelorenzo]

Well this thread has convinced me to take the LED plunge. I'm using Kodak beehives as well.

The shipping costs to Canada were very high from the Super Bright LED site so I ordered what appear to be the same bulbs from dx.com. They cost more but free shipping made it come out a better deal. Coming from China I'm sure they'll take a long time to arrive but when they do I'll safelight test them and report results.

http://www.dx.com/p/e27-0-7w-7-led-25-lumen-red-light-lamp-bulb-85-265v-ac-37160#.WLWzbNLythE

[cowanw]

Well this thread has convinced me to take the LED plunge. I'm using Kodak beehives as well.

The shipping costs to Canada were very high from the Super Bright LED site so I ordered what appear to be the same bulbs from dx.com. They cost more but free shipping made it come out a better deal. Coming from China I'm sure they'll take a long time to arrive but when they do I'll safelight test them and report results.

http://www.dx.com/p/e27-0-7w-7-led-25-lumen-red-light-lamp-bulb-85-265v-ac-37160#.WLWzbNLythE
I will look for your results with anticipation.

[Cor]

Me too!

They also ship to The Netherlands, I am not very familiar with electricity things, but the link says-

- Rated voltage: 85~265V 0.7W
- Light color: Red
- Luminous flux: 25-Lumen
- E27 connector

How can such a bulb run on such a wide voltage range (and will the brightness be affected by a different voltage). At least it has the right socket/connector.

best,

Ps One of the reviewers mention use in the darkroom, and also being fairly weak

Cor

I will look for your results with anticipation.

[koraks]

Me too!

They also ship to The Netherlands, I am not very familiar with electricity things, but the link says-

- Rated voltage: 85~265V 0.7W
- Light color: Red
- Luminous flux: 25-Lumen
- E27 connector

How can such a bulb run on such a wide voltage range (and will the brightness be affected by a different voltage). At least it has the right socket/connector.

best,

Ps One of the reviewers mention use in the darkroom, and also being fairly weak

Cor
Multi-voltage support is pretty much standard and relatively easy to accomplish with contemporary SMPS technology. The LED power supply is likely a small and simple SMPS. Compare it to a modern laptop adapter or mobile phone charger; these usually accept the same range of input voltages with the secondary, low-voltage side being stable and independent from the supply voltage.

25 lumens is quite low indeed. I'm not sure what the wattage or lumen output is, but I use a couple of these in my darkroom: https://www.bax-shop.nl/led-lampen/showtec-19-led-lamp-e27-fitting-rood One in a Kodak beehive, one in a regular desk lamp and one in a bare fitting with a carboard box as a housing with the bottom, open side fitted with a piece of rubylith to filter out anything but deep red. The unfiltered bulbs are fine for regular darkroom work and the one with the rubylith filter I use for cutting and developing green-sensitive x-ray film, which is fogged severely by the unfiltered bulbs. Paper and blue-sensitive x-ray film does just fine under the unfiltered bulbs though.

[HMG]

Do not use the the Home Depot bulb. I tried it. No good.

Do bounce these off the walls (https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/g11-led-bulb-8-smd-led-globe-bulb/440/#/attributes/13).

Do use red only, not amber.

I also use Beehives, no filter.


Was this (http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-25W-Equivalent-A19-LED-Light-Bulb-Red-ECS-GP19-RED-NDM-120-BL/205351458) the HD bulb you are referring to? If so, too bright or wrong wavelength?

[Tin Can]

Was this (http://www.homedepot.com/p/EcoSmart-25W-Equivalent-A19-LED-Light-Bulb-Red-ECS-GP19-RED-NDM-120-BL/205351458) the HD bulb you are referring to? If so, too bright or wrong wavelength?

Both. It is too bright. While I have no way of measuring wavelength, it is a different color than the small bulbs I like. Very noticeable color difference in my Darkroom.

I see it is now much cheaper than when I bought it.

I limit sensitive photo material exposure to any safelight.

Time is a 3rd factor.

[HMG]

Both. It is too bright. While I have no way of measuring wavelength, it is a different color than the small bulbs I like. Very noticeable color difference in my Darkroom.

I see it is now much cheaper than when I bought it.

I limit sensitive photo material exposure to any safelight.

Time is a 3rd factor.

My application for this is somewhat unique. I would be used for hallways leading to a temporary darkroom, rather than the darkroom itself. Light from those hallways do not directly shine into the darkroom area but can spill into it a bit.

[Tin Can]

My application for this is somewhat unique. I would be used for hallways leading to a temporary darkroom, rather than the darkroom itself. Light from those hallways do not directly shine into the darkroom area but can spill into it a bit.

Since my entire loft is a Darkroom and light tight I have the little bulbs everywhere, including my bathroom.

All are on remote controls to switch them on and off.

This is also handy when shooting paper negs and X-Ray in camera without shutters.

[adelorenzo]

Well this thread has convinced me to take the LED plunge. I'm using Kodak beehives as well.

The shipping costs to Canada were very high from the Super Bright LED site so I ordered what appear to be the same bulbs from dx.com. They cost more but free shipping made it come out a better deal. Coming from China I'm sure they'll take a long time to arrive but when they do I'll safelight test them and report results.

http://www.dx.com/p/e27-0-7w-7-led-25-lumen-red-light-lamp-bulb-85-265v-ac-37160#.WLWzbNLythE

So it took ages for them to arrive but I did finally get these red LED bulbs. I installed them in my Kodak beehives (after removing the filters) and tested them tonight. With Ilford Multigrade and Foma Fomatone papers I did not see any post-exposure highlight fogging up to 6 minutes, which is as far as I tested. My darkroom is also way brighter compared to my old setup.

[Ginette]

... I've always wondered-which kills the safelight filters, the light or the heat from the light bulbs. I tend to think it's the heat ...

I think about replacing the incandescent 15W or 25W in my regular safelights by LED equivalent 2 to 5W to reduce the heat and for the energy efficiency. Is the 0C filters will still be safe or if the safelight filter design was studied specifically with incandescent bulbs and fogging tests needed?

[Doremus Scudder]

I think about replacing the incandescent 15W or 25W in my regular safelights by LED equivalent 2 to 5W to reduce the heat and for the energy efficiency. Is the 0C filters will still be safe or if the safelight filter design was studied specifically with incandescent bulbs and fogging tests needed?

Ginette,

Yes, if you filter the LED with your normal OC filter, you will ensure that the light coming through is "safe" as far as wavelengths go. A safelight test is still a good idea, as the intensity may be much higher. If there is a problem there, then a lower wattage bulb or greater distance from the sensitive material may be needed. However, the 2-5w bulb should be about the same brightness as the incandescents you are already using.

Best,

Doremus

[HMG]

I would agree with Doremus. It can be a bit difficult to translate bulb wattage to lumens, but I suspect a 5w LED may produce more lumens than a 15w (and maybe even a 25w) incandescent.

[LabRat]

As for brightness, my rule for myself is to never have a safelight directly illuminating material, as it should be bouncing off some light colored surface (like a painted ceiling), but not directly aimed at materials (let the inverse square law increase the distance/reduce intensity to the materials)...

But I prefer a dimmer workroom, and develop B/W prints by time and test strip, rather than inspection... (And my fingertips become "eyeballs"...) I figure that a lab rat should be able to operate everything with their eyes closed (and blindfolded too)... I've done enough color, too to get the "feel" of everything...

I have been in some printing rooms that my first impression is that they are lit like a stadium (and makes me uneasy about fogging an opened fresh box of paper)... I look for the darkest, shaded corner before I crack open the box!!! And I don't leave unused materials laying around, and box or process exposed stuff ASAP, before lightning hits the building 3 times in a row...

;-)

Steve K

[denverjims]

I think about replacing the incandescent 15W or 25W in my regular safelights by LED equivalent 2 to 5W to reduce the heat and for the energy efficiency. Is the 0C filters will still be safe or if the safelight filter design was studied specifically with incandescent bulbs and fogging tests needed?

There are a couple of factors. The filter works by mostly letting light through in the wavelengths which the paper is not sensitive to. However, that "mostly" is the problem. Most filters are not 100% opaque in frequencies where the paper is sensitive so allow some light through. If the light source is putting out enough energy in those frequencies the small amount the filter allows through will still do harm. Not knowing what the spectral output your LED will provide or the brightness, it is not possible to know about the safety. If it is either bright enough overall or puts out a spike in an area that the filter does not cut out, you could have problems.

As a generalization, it will probably be fine. Personally, I'd to the testing. The time & materials used in testing are not that great given the risk. Your call...

[Ginette]

I wish to try some LED into my regular safelights, my idea is to reduce energy cost but also reduce the degradation of the filters that are probably relied more to the heat that to the light itself.
I ordered these 2 LED from Superbrightleds, I choose warm white for both:
- for the 10x12" safelights UPC: 847781014662 6W, equivalent 30W https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/6-watt-g50-globe-bulb-360-degree/436/1466/
- for the small Kodak 5 1/2" the UPC: 847781014808 equivalent 10W like their little well know red bulb https://www.superbrightleds.com/moreinfo/led-globe/g11-led-bulb-8-smd-led-globe-bulb/440/1480/
I will do tests on them.

[denverjims]

Hi Ginette,
This may be a little late but your testing of these bulbs with whatever safelight you plan to use would be wise. If you use Ilford FB Classic, for instance, you will see in the technical specification:
https://www.ilfordphoto.com/amfile/file/download/file_id/1921/product_id/733/
that the paper is sensitive from around 360nm to around 570nm. If you click on specifications for the UPC: 847781014808 you will see that even the red "only" bulb puts out some energy below 570. There may be an issue if the exposure is close/long enough. (No spectral curve was showing for the UPC: 847781014662).

The other thing is that both of these unbranded bulbs are likely from places where the specs may not be solid.

Like Ronald Reagan said: "Trust but verify". :)
Best, Jim

[Duolab123]

Buy a used Thomas super safe light. The filters can be pretty ratty and still work. Low pressure sodium vapor lamps are super narrow spectral output. The bulbs are nothing special, you can find OEM bulbs on ebay for 25 bucks and they last forever. I have 3 , I have the DUC color filters in the outer filter holders. You can see and make color prints, I didn't believe it until i tried it. Of course it takes 5 minutes for your eyes to adjust to the darkness. With the vanes open for black and white You could easily read a large print book.