Vertical correction with 6x17

[Travis]

I discovered a problem when out shooting with my new Shen Hao 6x17 back. Every time I would compose a vertical object in the middle of frame, such as a lighthouse, church, tree, etc, then pan the camera to place the object more towards the edge of frame, the vertical object would tilt heavily towards the middle of the frame. Is there an easy way to overcome the leaning vertical problem? I'm using a 90mm lens, so camera movements are virtually non-existant. I found I had to leave these objects very close to the center of the frame, which looked terrible composition wise.

[JimL]

To make sure everything stays vertical, you need to make sure that your camera back (the film plane) is perfectly vertical when the camera is in position, ready to take the shot. Lucky for you, this is one of the advantages of using a view camera over a fixed-lens panoramic camera for this type of work, as keeping the film plane vertical and using shift movements to "look" up or down will keep verticals vertical. I would suggest that, after you've panned the camera to its final horizontal position, get out from under the dark-cloth and tilt the camera so that the back is vertical (using the camera's built-in or a hand-held level). Then, while viewing the composition, shift either the front or rear standards up or down until the subject is framed as desired. The danger here is exceeding the image circle of your lens and vignetting the corners. You can figure the shift limits out by taking some test shots with varying amounts of shift, or by using geometry. You'll also want to make sure that the camera is horizontal (side to side, or about the lens axis), otherwise everything including horizons could look a bit wonky...

[paul owen]

Hi Travis, Not an answer as such, although you do need to ensure that the camera back is vertical - but some advice as I am waiting delivery of a 6x17 Shen Hao back and wondered how you were getting on with yours? Any views/comments/advice greatly appreciated! Thanks Paul

[Ellis Vener]

Which camera are you using?

[Ellis Vener]

I seethat you are using the Shen Hao 4x5 withthe 6x17 back. I'm not familiar withthis camera but I'll assume it is like a Zone VI or similar foldign wood camera. Veticals might be difficult with that back attached, have you tried using tilting thhe camera on its side so you can use what ever rear swing movements the camera has , as tilt movements? This might help but then again it might not.

More simply, rather than panningthe camra have you tried composing the photo more close to the framing you want and then using the front shift and rise/fall movements to zero in on your desired framing.

Also do you know about the indirect tilt method? You start with the camera pointing up at your subject and then tilt the back and frnt standards back to vertical. With a 90mm on a flat bed wood en folder you might not have enough flexibility in the bellows to make it work -- especially has you have the bellows more compressed t ocompensate for the depth of the back.

[Travis]

Thanks for the feedback everyone.

Due to the depth of the 6x17 back and using a 90mm lens, the front standard is fully compressed back inside the box-like 'housing' of the rear standard. Due to this, I have only 1 cm of front rise before the front standard physically hits the top of the rear standard. Working on the measuring scales, the front standard would need to come forward 2 cms before I can make use of the full 4cms of front rise. I'm thinking that not even a recessed lens board will enable me to move the front standard forward that far. Even with the wide angle bellows fitted, I cannot get any rear standard tilt of shift happening, meaning correcting for verticals is not possible at the moment. Any ideas anyone? Should I try a recessed lend board?

[ramin]

Paul check this post here : http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/500542.html (http://largeformatphotography.info/lfforum/topic/500542.html) and thank you for your input Travis.

[ramin]

Paul you may take a look at this page too: http://www.kgcphoto.com/Reviews_&_Tutorials/shen-hao_6x17_back.htm (http://www.kgcphoto.com/Reviews_&_Tutorials/shen-hao_6x17_back.htm)

cheers

[paul owen]

I've just received the Shen Hao 6x17 back! VERY impressed with the build / finish considering what it cost! I too have the "Art Panorama" version (as shown on the Shen Hao web site) which is almost the same as the DAYI version. I have done a few test runs on the camera - haven't had time to put any film through it yet!! And have the following observations! Firstly, I am sure that I am going to need to use a recessed panel with the 90mm 6.8 Schneider Super Angulon "Classic" - I can focus on infinity with it on a flat panel but there is VERY little room for any movement. Secondly, I will have a problem using the holder in a vertical orientation - the holder will not orientate vertically on my camera (Ebony 45SU) as the camera locks on the rear of the camera project into the path of the holder - not a real problem as if I ever need to shoot a vertical I'll tip the camera on its side! Third - the film back comes with 2 small felt baffles (I presume to mask the film gate down to 6x12 - need to have a look to see how this is done!!) NO INSTRUCTIONS!! Also, the screen/viewer has a bellows attached for shading the screen (good!) but to extend them you appear to have to undo a small screw - this must be a real pain in the field!!!!! Think I'll stick to the old darkcloth! I'm VERY pleased with this film back - I'll let anyone interested know how I get on shooting some film!! Thanks for the help Paul

[ramin]

Just a quick question Paul: when you have the back mounted on the camera what is the difference in length between your camera’s original ground glass and the ground glass of the back. Could you measure this for me please?

At the moment I have nothing wider than a 110SS but I am thinking of buying the 72XL and want to know if I can use this on my Toyo AII with the Shen Hau 6x17 back. I will also be using them on my Sinar F2 as well but i'am sure there I’ll have more freedom.

I’d also appreciate any additional information you will share with us. Congratulations again

[Travis]

Paul, I have decided to go with a recessed lens panel (giving me an extra 14mm) as my standards are currently touching when focussed on infinity. I also have problems when using the film back (not the viewer) in the vertical position on my Shen Hao camera, as the rear slide/shift lock handle protrudes a long way when locked off, which gets is the way of the back. I am only able to lock this handle off about a quater of the way before it becomes a problem. As you say, tipping the camera on the side is an option.

The two small baffles are quite easy to fit in the film back for 6x12 shooting. Pull out the metal dark slide and reach into the back from that side and insert the felt baffles into the edge of the frame - they should fit there quite snuggly.

Finally, the bellows for shading the ground glass just simply pulls out (it might be a little stiff to begin with) on a sort of monorail system. There is no need to undo the small screw you can see, that screw holds the bellows onto the rail. Just wiggle the whole bellows a little and pull it toward you. It should pull out about 4 or 5 inches. I have only used this a few times, and always in conjunction with a darkcloth. By the way, I have found that it is completely safe to totally remove the dark slide for exposures, even in full sunlight. The darkslide door seems to be completely lightproof (as you would expect). Hope this helps.

[paul owen]

Thanks for the replies - all VERY helpful. Travis, I sorted the viewer out!!! Very clever design but yes a bit stiff at first! I will try the light baffle fitting later!!

Ramin, I will measure the back, but I reckon it will be a VERY tight fit! I am using a recessed panel on a 90mm to allow me some play - I will measure the distance for you when I get home just in case it will fit and post reply here. Many thanks again for all the help! Paul

[paul owen]

Ramin, the distance is approximately 43mm from gound glass (6x17) and the original film plane/ground glass. Hope this helps!

[paul owen]

Sorted out the vertical orientation problem - just raised the back standard - DOH!!!!