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Calamity Jane
9-Jan-2005, 10:47
I have been using a 4 foot square of black cloth as a darkcloth with my 4x5 monorail and find many annoyances with it! Soooo, it's time for something different.

It would be convenient to have the darkcloth attached to the camera and I have heard some people use velcro. If it's a breezy day, you don't want the cloth fluttering in the wind during the exposure and the velcro I have seen is pretty tenacious so it would be hard to remove without risking shifting the camera.

I thought about putting two screws in the top of the camera and a couple of eyelets in the darkcloth so it would just hook in place (maybe with some elastic to hold the cloth closed around the rear frame). Anybody have a better way?

I was also thinking of sewing the camera end of the darkcloth into a tube (only for about 6") to eliminate the light leaks under the rear frame. Does it work?

[I am too cheap to pay $$$ for a "professional" darkcloth that I can make myself, but I'm not above stealing good ideas from others! ;-) ]

Any and all ideas on the ideal darkcloth design are greatly appreciated!

Good light to all!

CXC
9-Jan-2005, 10:55
Before you spend a penny or a minute of your time, try a t-shirt. Preferably black. The neck opening is just right to be streteched over the back, then stick your head in from the bottom. Since I learned of this technique I use nothing else.

Frank Petronio
9-Jan-2005, 11:09
I second CXC's jacket-T-shirt idea. Attaching a darkcloth to a camera is an accident waiting to happen - catch it and you pull the whole thing down.

I think a lot of people spend way too much time under the damn things anyway. Previsualize, get in, get out. You're not camping!

Jim Rice
9-Jan-2005, 11:24
Frank and CXC are on the right path, that being elastic. Make your darkcloth somewhat tubular and add elastic at the camera end just enough to fit the rear standard of your camera. This idea is, of course, stolen from the BZT people who in their turn, no doubt, stole it from someone else.

Jim Rice
9-Jan-2005, 11:28
I might add that on my old beater Master View velcro worked like a charm. I just couldn't bring myself to do it to the Wiz. Nice cameras have their disadvantages.

Ted Burford
9-Jan-2005, 11:33
I am selling custom made focusing cloth for 5X7, 4X5 and 8X10 cameras.

The advantage of this one is it has elastic at the camera end to fit around the back of the camera, and Velcro at the bottom to keep the light from coming in at the bottom. It is open at the back to get your head in to see the ground glass and focus the camera. It is made of light weight fabric that is black on the inside and silver on the outside, so you could also use it as a reflector for small objects. The silver side feels like it is made from a rubberized coating.

The bottom is held closed by Velcro, so it is easy to open it a bit to put your hand in with a loupe for critical focusing.

I am selling these on eBay and my user ID is ted.b

Ralph Barker
9-Jan-2005, 12:12
While we're sewing ideas, so to speak, how about sewing that black t-shirt inside a white one. That way, the white exterior reduces heat build-up on sunny days, and the double thickness further reduces light transmission.

The double-T concept could even be extended for the more fashion conscious: forest cami for nature lovers, urban cami for street shooters, etc. The possibilities are almost endless! Unfortunately, none of these designs solves the problem of "dark-cloth hair". ;-)

Jim Rice
9-Jan-2005, 12:18
Surely I must suffer from 'dark-cloth hair' as badly as anyone here. After all, I have so much of it. ;-)

David A. Goldfarb
9-Jan-2005, 12:22
If you're leaving the darkcloth on the camera during the exposure, I'm guessing you're the sort of person who thinks of the darkcloth as something to be attached to the camera, that you get under to see the groundglass.

I think of the darkcloth as something to be attached to me, so I usually have it folded in half and draped over my shoulders like a cape, and then I flip it over my head and the camera when I need to view the groundglass. It has velcro at the camera end if I want to wrap it around the camera and close it up at the bottom to keep the dark in.

Leonard Evens
9-Jan-2005, 12:41
I endorse the "T-shirt" solution, but you should get a dark, fairly heavy one. I get mine from Land's End, and they work quite well. They do let a small amount of light through, but it is not usually enough to bother me. Some people even manage to put their hands in through the sleeves, but I've never managed that. I put everything, hands and head, in through the bottom opening. In muggy weather, I often arrange the btoom so my nose and mouth are outside, and that avoids fog on the gg.

lee\c
9-Jan-2005, 14:30
you might look here at this one and see if it meets your qualifcations.


http://www.quietworks.com/FRAMES_FILES/BJ_SPECIFICATIONS/BJ_NEW_HOME_FRAME_.htm (http://www.quietworks.com/FRAMES_FILES/BJ_SPECIFICATIONS/BJ_NEW_HOME_FRAME_.htm)

I dont own one or play one on tv.

leec

Tom Westbrook
9-Jan-2005, 14:50
I retired my old BTZS tube-style cloth a couple of months ago for the cloth Justin Gnass recently produced. It's well made, light, folds quite flat, contains no plastic (i.e. is perfect for very cold temps), and is fairly cheap, as dark cloths go.

I think Tim Atherton tested the Quiet Works shirt/darkcloth, so maybe he can comment on that one in the cold, or search the archives.

See http://www.gnassgear.com/products/product_detail.cfm?pcode=PG-92676 (http://www.gnassgear.com/products/product_detail.cfm?pcode=PG-92676) for details. I like it better than the Harrison cloth, too.

Emrehan Zeybekoglu
9-Jan-2005, 16:03
I made mine tubular with elastic at the camera end; it works well for me..

David Richhart
9-Jan-2005, 17:49
After focussing, I use my darkcloth to cover the aging bellows of my old Agfa... seems to help with the corners that are not quite as light-tight as they were when they were younger. Not much sense in my upgrading the old camera now. I am not as light, but more tight than I used to be, and I think my old camera will outlast my aging and aching bones.

Alan Davenport
9-Jan-2005, 21:40
I don't like the concept of a permanently attached darkcloth. That just seems like a liability, both because it will be in the way when you aren't actually under it, and because that's one more thing to catch wind or for you to use to accidentally pull the camera over. I do think a good darkcloth should be closeable to create a really dark environment.

I, too, was looking for a less expensive solution, so I made my own darkcloth. I used two layers of black fabric (didn't know how much I'd need, and figured better too dark than not enough) plus a layer of white. I used Velcro around the front edge, from the corners to a bit farther than needed to close around the camera, plus along the sides to close it back about 15". I found a type of Velcro that has both parts (hooks and loops) in the same piece, so you use the same stuff on both sides and it sticks to itself. However, it doesn't stick particularly well since the hooks are buried down in the loops. The advantage is that it doesn't stick to everything else, one of Velcro's more annoying features. I don't recall the gross dimensions of the finished cloth, if anyone cares I'll measure it.

FWIW, here's an attempt at an ASCII drawing of it:

+++++++++++++++++++-------------------

+++++++++++++++++++

++

++

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++ <-- Velcro at front corners to close

++

|

|

|

|

|

|

| <-- This end to camera

|

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|

++

++

++

++

++

+++++++++++++++++++

+++++++++++++++++++-------------

Darkcloths aren't rocket science, that's fer sure. It's inky black inside mine which is nice when I'm trying to focus an f/8 lens.

Brent Doerzman
9-Jan-2005, 23:22
I subscribe to the T-shirt method, but a little differently than most. Instead of putting the T-shirt neck opening over the back of the camera, I put it over my head, and pull the bottom of the shirt up over my head, and hold it over the camera much like a "normal" square dark cloth. I sewed on small pieces of velcro to snug around the camera to keep out all excess light while setting up an image and focusing. When not looking throught the ground glass, it stays safely on my neck, no chance of it getting blown away by a breeze. Might look a little funny with a t-shirt only around my neck, but usually when I'm out shooting, I really don't care too much. :) Good luck!

Dave Moeller
10-Jan-2005, 03:21
I'm a t-shirt user. After using an old black t-shirt I had around here from my (*ahem*) "larger" days, I finally picked up a light gray t-shirt in the same size. Putting one inside of the other, I used heat bond fusible fabric tape to attach the two at the neck and at the sleeves. Then I did the same thing at the waist, but there I then folded a 1" hem into the double-shirt and fed a piece of leather cord through and back out on both ends.

For 4x5, the neck hole goes over the back of the camera and I go in through the waist. For 8x10 the waist goes over the back of the camera and I tighten it up using the cord, then I stick my head in through the neck hole and my hands in through the arm holes.

When shooting 4x5, I just bunch up the shirt and push it forward a bit on the camera before inserting the film holder. After I've drawn the dark slide, I bring some of the fabric back over the end of the film holder...another bit of light blocked from potentially hitting the back of the film. With the 8x10, I attach the waist of the t-shirt to the camera using a couple of clips that are there to serve this purpose, and I just leave it attached and thrown forward while inserting the film holder and pulling the dark slide, then pull some of it back to cover the opening of the film holder.

In neither case do I detach the shirts from the camera during shooting or leave them draped to act as wind sails.

You can probably pick up two oversized t-shirts, a roll of fusible bond, and the leather cord all for under $20 at WalMart. I think the whole project took me less than an hour.

Brian Ellis
10-Jan-2005, 06:13
Too cheap to buy a dedicated cloth? Figure you spend about $50 on a box of film or dinner at a half-way nice restaurant. For that you can buy a dedicated "tunnel" type cloth from BTZS or Gnass or a couple other places. Black tee shirts are hot, the neck of the one I tried was such a tight fit around the camera back that I almost tipped the tripod getting the thing on, it didn't keep out the light all that well, and worst of all it wasn't big enough around to let me comfortably get my hands up through it to use a loupe and use the rear camera controls. Maybe if I bought a larger or better tee shirt it would have worked better, I don't know. Considering the cost of my other photography equipment, not to mention the cost of going places to use it, $50 for a dedicated "tunnel" type cloth just didn't seem like that big a deal.

Frank Petronio
10-Jan-2005, 06:20
If you're backpacking, why carry a dedicated focusing cloth? And if it's cool outside, why not just use your jacket?

Dave Moeller
10-Jan-2005, 07:46
Brian-

Not all of us use t-shirts because we're "too cheap"...some of use them because the solution works so well for us that spending money on a dedicated dark cloth would be wasteful.

As described above, my 2 t-shirt, heat bond, and leather cord setup works perfectly, blocks out tons of light, stays cool, folds up into nothing, can be worn as an extra layer of clothing in an emergency, and gives me the satisfaction of knowing that I made it myself. All of that for $20...which leaves me an extra $30 for film, paper, or a dinner out. I've made a dark cloth that I'd put up against anything on the market...it works for 4x5 or 8x10, it's effective, it's light, it's cool...I didn't do it because it was cheap but rather because I knew I could make something that was at least as good as the professionals make and have the satisfaction of having done so all to myself. Along with the extra $30.

If I was trying to save money by buying beater lenses or unstable cameras, I'd take the "cheap" label...but in this case I'd rather think of myself as "inventive".

Nick_3536
10-Jan-2005, 07:49
"And if it's cool outside, why not just use your jacket?"

Frostbite?

CXC
10-Jan-2005, 10:17
Dang, I had no idea the t-shirt solution was so popular!

An even simpler solution is the hooded windbreaker. I was shooting up at Tahoe recently, wearing said windbreaker, and for darkness all I had to do was pull the hood over the top of the camera. Takes 3 seconds. I initially forgot about this approach because here in California it is usually too warm for me to wear a jacket while shooting. Unless it is so grey and ugly that you don't want to shoot anyways. Like today.

As to the cheapness issue, I didn't start t-shirting till after I owned a BTZS cloth and a normal darkcloth, that I had made my wife sew various pieces of velcro onto. I actually prefer the t-shirt.

Alan Davenport
12-Jan-2005, 13:06
If you're backpacking, why carry a dedicated focusing cloth? And if it's cool outside, why not just use your jacket?

Uh, I carry a darkcloth so I can see the dadgum image on the groundglass. Try pointing an f/8 lens into a dark patch of mossy tree trunks, with open sky behind you. And because if it's cool outside, I want my jacket on me, not on the camera. I'm too old for that stuff: I've earned the right to be warm.

gfen
14-Jan-2005, 11:08
I'll chime in with an answer several others have suggested: Elastic.
I'll go one step further: Elastic _and_ velcro!

I took the cheapest, most generic darkcloth (which was just a sheet of rubberized fabric) and just sewed a line of elastic around one end. This is the side I loop over the camera back. I then sewed a line of elastic along the bottom seam of the darkcloth so I can just sort of seal it up, or even open a hand-hole along the middle.

Works like a champ.

Randy_5067
15-Jan-2005, 12:09
T-shirts and hoodies. Cool. Being a fairly newbie to l-f, (couple of years) I thought I was the only cheap one out there! The idea of a windbreaker does work pretty well. I personally use the "hoodie" sweatshirts. Oversized hoods that pull over my head and over the back of the camera very nicely. In the winter you look kinda like a Byzantine Monk and in the summer-time, it looks cool with the sleeves either cut at 3/4 length, or completely off. And as Frank pointed out... get it set close, pull the hood over long enough to "fine-tune" the shot, and get out.