Banding in scans / negatives?

[bRokEnVIEW]

Hi everyone,

while scanning some of my negatives (Epson V700 with BetterScanning holders), I discovered some strange banding:

http://abload.de/img/banding2-kopie00uz5.jpg

Slightly processed:

http://abload.de/img/banding-kopiel0us8.jpg

Does anyone recognize this? I am not sure if this is on the film itself or has been introduced by the scanning. It's on multiple scans, but only at the edges of the negative.

[Ken Lee]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/band.jpg

Even without the holders - when placing the negatives directly on the glass - I get the same thing with my Epson V700. It appears along the film adjacent to the blank edge, especially when the subject is light-colored.

Notice that it follows the shape of the edge.

I have tried to reduce it by orienting my film at a 45 degree angle, but that strikes me as a queer solution.

It's been a while since I ran my tests: my recollection is that the banding appears with both EPSON and VueScan software.

[Tobias Key]

If I've had banding on a scan it has usually been due to dust in the calibration area. I've been able to fix it by cleaning all glass surfaces thoroughly, unfortunately that can often mean taking the scanner apart.

[Ken Lee]

Can you point us to instructions on how to take the scanner apart for cleaning ?

[andy]

I've not noticed this on my v750 scans, but maybe it's happening with the shift from density to no density along the edge of the image? And maybe the opposite happens when scanning chromes? one way to test would be to use something (maybe cut up an bad negative?) to mask the edges and extend the area away where the scanner shifts from dark to light away from the edge of the image.

[Tobias Key]

I've done it with a Epson 4990 and an HP G4050, it is just simply a matter of unscrewing the case and cleaning the glass, I don't remember reading any in depth instructions on how to do it. The main thing is to check the calibration area of the glass for dust on the inside, and see if it is in line with the banding you are getting.

[Ken Lee]

I've done it with a Epson 4990 and an HP G4050, it is just simply a matter of unscrewing the case and cleaning the glass, I don't remember reading any in depth instructions on how to do it. The main thing is to check the calibration area of the glass for dust on the inside, and see if it is in line with the banding you are getting.

Thanks, I will give it a try. Fingers crossed.

[Jmarmck]

dust on the lamp as well.

[koraks]

Hi everyone,

Does anyone recognize this? I am not sure if this is on the film itself or has been introduced by the scanning. It's on multiple scans, but only at the edges of the negative.

Looks like it is most likely mild dust or grease marks on the calibration area. The banding that runs along the film edges is a weird reflection of some sorts; I've seen it before with my 4990 as well.

Disassembling a flatbed scanner for cleaning is usually quite easy. The tricky bit is to find where the screws are; some of them tend to be hidden underneath small covers that you need to pry out first (as is the case with the 4990). The most frustrating thing, however, is that it's nearly impossible to clean the glass completely. Once you've reassembled the scanner, you notice the wiping marks and leftover (or even new) dust on the glass... Note that it is usually not necessary to open up the scanner to clean the calibration area, since most of the dust will be on top of the glass, not on the bottom.

[Bruce Watson]

Notice that it follows the shape of the edge.

This one I understand. Look at your holders. The plastic hold down rails that hold the film against the back plate aren't properly dull. What you're seeing there is reflections off the hold down rail inner surface -- the surface that's at 90 degrees to the film plane. Doesn't really matter unless you are shooting into the sun, or some other basically specular light source is in the frame. And since you are scanning, you can fairly easily touch that out.

Easy enough to get rid of -- five minutes with some emory paper. I've tried it, I know it works. But.... that creates dust. In your film holder. So before you do this, ask yourself if you're sure the risk of mirror finish hold down rails give you a little edge banding is worth the certainty of putting a bunch of dust in your film holder (I had to clean that holder over and over and over (probably 20-30 times) before it was once again clean enough that I could put it back into the regular rotation)

The decision was pretty easy for me. I don't like shots into the sun much anyway. :cool:

[Ken Lee]

The artifacts aren't on the negatives. They disappear if I rotate the film to a diagonal when scanning.

I'll try cleaning the scanner.

[jp]

Bruce is saying extra light shines onto the negatives and bounces around at the edge. I have seen similar laying negatives down if the edge lifts a little letting light in. Cleaning is likely still worthwhile.

[Ken Lee]

When I scan with BetterScanning holder, I tape the film flat against the glass. There is no gap, but the glass itself is raised about the scanner glass. Is that what you're referring to ?

[Colin Graham]

I've gotten these shadows lines as well with my V700. It drove me crazy. I modified development routines, modified my camera back, holders, etc, all the while convinced (http://www.largeformatphotography.info/forum/showthread.php?117658-Stripes-on-the-edge-of-my-negative-Chamonix-8x10&p=1184668#post1184668) the artifact was on the negative. But it turns out it was a scanning artifact- simply making a mask (http://colinflanarygraham.com/darkshop/?p=2633) to frame the negative margins with rubylith tape on my 5x7 film insert (really only a piece of glass with rubber feet) finally solved the issue for me.

I can't explain it, but something about the V700 seems to arbitrarily cause these patterns. Maybe it's has something to do with using a supplemental glass insert to hold a negative? Like some sort of hall of mirrors effect between the glass insert and negative rebate. They weren't there at all for the first couple of hundred scans on my V700. Then it was intermittent, then finally it affected all negatives with light values along the rebate. But I haven't had the issue at all since masking the edges.

[Pali K]

I get this when I place my negatives directly on the glass and dont mask the negative with black paper. In my case, it is happening because edges of the ANR glass are letting light in from the sides that reflects an image on itself.

If banding is only on the edges of the negatives, as in my case, it may be worth trying to masking the negative and see if that fixes it.

Pali

[Ken Lee]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/v700plug.jpg

I've finally decided to clean my V700 scanner. I found these instructions (https://www.flickr.com/groups/466058@N21/discuss/72157626127955123/), which refer to 4 screws hidden under plugs.

Is this (see above) one of the plugs ?

I tried prying it off with gentle pressure from a small screw driver, but am reluctant to force things.

[sanking]

http://www.kenleegallery.com/images/forum/v700plug.jpg

I've finally decided to clean my V700 scanner. I found these instructions (https://www.flickr.com/groups/466058@N21/discuss/72157626127955123/), which refer to 4 screws hidden under plugs.

Is this (see above) one of the plugs ?

I tried prying it off with gentle pressure from a small screw driver, but am reluctant to force things.

Yes, those are the plugs you need to remove. Get a very sharp point to insert underneath the plugs and apply gentle pressure. They should come out with no problem, be sure to have on hand a container to hold the plugs which you clean the glass as they tend to get lost!

Sandy

[Ken Lee]

Thank you - you were right !!

Those plugs were really in there.

[Pali K]

Thank you - you were right !!

Those plugs were really in there.
Ken, did you take any pictures of the process?

Mine has a few stubborn dust particles that I have been wanting to get rid of but I am worried about making things worse.

Pali

[Ken Lee]

Not yet - The first hurdle was removing the plugs - but you're right: it's a good idea to document it. I'll make photos as I go and put them on my web site when I'm done.

[appletree]

Not yet - The first hurdle was removing the plugs - but you're right: it's a good idea to document it. I'll make photos as I go and put them on my web site when I'm done.

Good to hear and yes, please do! I am thinking about buying a v700 that has a small scratch on the glass (about 1/3 size of a dime). May/may not affect scans for 4x5, 35mm, and 120 since it is ~25% on the bottom corner of the glass. That is what the seller told me. No negative holders to check for me, but he feels it might only affect images if I scan 8x10. May not be a problem, but if it is it would be nice to know if it is possible to remove the glass and replace with a new piece in the exact dimensions. Just to avoid PS out the scratch all the time. Then again he believes if anything it might only affect one image on a 35mm strip...which I am not worried about in that case.

[Ken Lee]

Update: I didn't take any photos of the process because there's nothing to elaborate.

Once you unscrew the 4 screws, you can lift off the top. The glass is fastened to the top, so you can simply clean the glass and screw the top back on.

[appletree]

Thanks Ken. I will try mine this week. I just got my scanner in the other day and all seems well (other than it was really dirty and dusty!). I cannot find a scratch on my glass. But I think it still needs a cleaning.

I tried dry mounting (still not used to the thought of putting tape on my negative) and while I can see the edge of tape in the image I will keep trying as I adjust the height (I think I need to do that) on my film holders. After getting the height sorted I might adjust my taping methods to the very very very edge. I got about 1/8 and while I will eventually crop it out I am assuming I don't want to lose the edges of a photo do to cropping because of tape.