Questions On Old Petzval With RECTANGULAR-Shaped Aperture Waterhouse Stops

[leighmarrin]

This week I bought an old 4x5 Graflex RB/Series D from a Craiglist ad for $225. The shutter curtain is intact, but only appears to work reliably at the two highest curtain-tension settings; it jams with lower tensions. It came with a headless somewhat-undersized Ries C model tripod, a bag-mag with ratty leather and an unmarked old petzval lens I estimate to be about 7"/f3.5; it was very hazy but cleaned up fine with mild soap and water. While the lens's flange was screwed to a cracked plywood lensboard, the lensboard was GLUED to the very front of the standard--no screws or clamps. It was on the verge of falling off, so I've removed it. Its focus range in its original position was about 2 feet to 15 feet. Also included were 3 old homemade Waterhouse stops with RECTANGULAR-shaped apertures.

Any idea why the Waterhouse stops have rectangular cut-outs? I've read that some process cameras lenses use square apertures for screened half-tone/copy work, but I doubt if this elderly lens was used as a process lens. I'm certain the stops are not original to the lens: while their outer edges have been cut with a shear, they are slightly irregular and the mid-sized stop is a little too narrow, and light leaks on its edges. (The smallest stop has a narrower aspect ratio than the other two, roughly like 5x7 versus 4x5.)

Any suggestions on who might have made the lens? The knurling on the retaining rings is not quite as fancy as on a Darlot lens of similar vintage I own. The lens is unmarked except for what appears to be an oddly drawn "7" penciled on two of the glass elements. (I estimate its focal length to be about 7", FWIW.) The Waterhouse slot appears original, and not an after-market mod on a Magic Lantern lens.

Thanks in advance from Leigh M. in Santa Barbara, Calif.

http://i.imgur.com/YgkveV2.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7BEGNgt.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/XxjwUuz.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/KrQqlOT.jpg

[pierre506]

Interesting water houses~

[BetterSense]

Maybe just easier to fabricate.

Also, rectangular would cut out light, but be less sharp. Maybe somebody needed to slow down things but not make them too sharp.

[Steven Tribe]

A "7" with a horizontal "slash" through the upright is a sure sign of a continental (Europe) maker. A tradition which still exists to distinguish it from "1".

The very thin brass lens hood is often a sign of an early lens. The sleeve waterhouse cut-out looks like a post production addition (pre-1870 or projection lens originally) and the stops were perhaps made at the same time.

There were some very strange theories about the influence of the shape of the aperture on images (mostly portraits) in the 1880s/1890s!

[leighmarrin]

Thanks to all for the replies.

Steven, the penciled number on the two glass element edges is not the slashed "Continental" 7 that you mention. At the base of the 7 there is a curly loop that makes a small circle on the lower right side of the number. Maybe an attempt to write "7." to indicate "7.0"?

I'll try to get a shot of it.

[leighmarrin]

Here's the squiggle that appears on two of the glass edges. It looks sorta random, but is written the same way on both.

http://i.imgur.com/wMWcWMp.jpg

[goamules]

Whatever it is, that looks like an early lens to me. The big hood, heavy rear element fittings, and other factors. It has features I've not seen, so I'm thinking it may be an obscure British or German lens. It doesn't look French, but could be.

[Steven Tribe]

Having seen the mark on the two thick lenses, I would hazard a guess that it is either:

A pencil mark "copy" of a copperplate letter ( P, S etc).

OR/AND

A finishers mark that means it is it is "approved". The process of making lenses would pass several workplaces and the completion of the final check would warrant a "seal of approval". Cabinet makers made similar marks on surfaces that were plane - I even did it in the school workshop years ago!

The achromat figure must be seen with concave surface down.

I can see that the saw has continued a fraction beyond the cut-out square. The piece missing from the sleeve may have had data on it!

[Jac@stafford.net]

Here's the squiggle that appears on two of the glass edges.

It's a piece of the Ebola virus.

[leighmarrin]

Steven and Garrett, thanks very much for the comments and information. While I'm sure it has no more resale value than the many other unmarked petzvals, I promise NOT to "Brasso" off its perhaps 150 years of oxide "patina". And I will use it: am glad the glass cleaned up so well--it was really cloudy, and there was a bit of spider web inside. (The flint and crown were reversed.) There is only a tiny bit of separation on the edges of the front element.

Steven, regarding your comment that the Waterhouse slot was added later, there is a large-aperture zinc or ferrous washer-stop mounted inside next to the slot as a light shield: it looks very well fitted. FWIW.

Jac, I hope you're wrong about the squiggle! Heh... more trivia: this lens came on a Graflex Series D SLR that had a bag magazine with the initials "CS" scratched on it. The seller tells me he bought it ten years ago from an estate sale of an elderly photographer in the Misson District of San Francisco, and I'm hoping there is a deceased 'Frisco Famous Photographer with those "CS" initials, so that I can claim dubious provenance for it...

[Steven Tribe]

Steven, regarding your comment that the Waterhouse slot was added later, there is a large-aperture zinc or ferrous washer-stop mounted inside next to the slot as a light shield: it looks very well fitted. FWIW.

I did this with a large barrel I made to accept 2 orphan Dallmeyer 3B lens cells. I have also seen it with WHS adaptions which are much less well carried out than yours. The earlier the conversion was was done - the more professional the result. Later conversions often manage with a single inserted zink plate, rather than two.

Even before your last insert, I was thinking about this set being the source of income for a street/"intermittant studio" photographer or even as a mug-shoot camera for an institution.

[IanG]

Echoing Steven's comments it looks like it wasn't a professional conversion by someone who'd done them before. If it was mine I'd make a new set of round stops, I make mine from aluminum as it's easy to work with.

Ian.

[leighmarrin]

Steven, yes, as this camera/lens combo came with a bag magazine holding 18 sheets, perhaps it was used for mug shots or by an itinerant street photographer.

Garrett, I saw a photo of a Carl Dietzler petzval, and the external rear cell ring looks very similar to mine, although the rest of the lens does not. So perhaps they shared small parts from the same Germanic parts jobber.

Ian, I plan on making a new Waterhouse round stop of the same internal diameter as the small rectangular stop, and see how they compare in side-by-side photos.

My math is a little feeble: what size ROUND hole would have the same internal area as a 10mm x14mm rectangle?

Thanks. --Leigh.

PS: a shout-out "thanks" to John/jnaian who PMed me CLA instructions for the Graflex shutter.

[Jac@stafford.net]

what size ROUND hole would have the same internal area as a 10mm x14mm rectangle?

~ 6.7mm diameter

[Taija71A]

... what size ROUND hole would have the same internal area as a 10mm x14mm rectangle?


~ 6.7mm diameter
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Jac, just so there is no confusion...
You of course meant to say... ≈6.7mm Radius or ≈13.4mm Diameter.
--
Best regards,

-Tim.
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[Jac@stafford.net]

__

Jac, just so there is no confusion...
You of course meant to say... ≈6.7mm Radius or ≈13.4mm Diameter.
--
Best regards,

-Tim.
__________

Radius! Yes. Gads I hate it when I mess up like that.
Typing faster than I can think.

radius = sqrt((side1 x side2)/pi)

Leigh, you can type this into Google's search box to solve for diameter

2* (sqrt((side1 * side2)/pi))
specifically
2* (sqrt((10 * 14)/pi))

Thank you, Tim.

[Taija71A]

__

No problem Jac.

I too, have made that exact same mistake. *We are so 'anxious' to get the answer...
That we forget that the Equation is for 'Radius' and not Diameter. ;)
_______

[Jac@stafford.net]

To make it simpler, 13.4mm is close enough to 1/2" that you can drill it with a common, inexpensive hole saw.

[leighmarrin]

Tim and Jac, thanks for the info. Jac, I've got a round 1/2" chasis punch, so it should be an easy job.