Large Dallmeyer Lens

[Bill Shayka]

After taking over a studio, I found a large brass lens (building has had photo studios in it since pre-1900) marked with the name J H Dallmeyer engraved in script on the barrel. Other identification marks include: No.83004 / London / 4B / Patent 1866 & 1909. Also has a marking engraved "Turn For Soft Focus" with an arrow indicating direction. Top of the lens barrel has a slot which I assume is for whatever was used to create the Soft Focus effect. The lens is mounted on a nice cherry or mahogany mount, and I believe the unit might have been used on a 8x10 Ansco view camera that is still lurking upstairs. Overall length of the lens is about 9 inches, and the front glass diameter is about 4.5 inches. The leather front lens cap still fits, and other than looking a bit dried out, is in decent condition.

It's an interesting piece of equipment, and nice looking - I plan to keep it clean and sitting with my other vintage items.

I'd appreciate any information on the lens, manufacturer, and uses of the lens. Since this has been a portrait studio for many many years, I guess that it was used for that purpose.

Thanks!

[Dean Tomasula]

Bill-
It sounds like you've found a Dallmeyer soft focus lens. The slot you mentioned in the lens is most likely for waterhouse stops, not soft focus filters. The lens itself is optimized for soft focus, acting like a modern spot filter (soft all around and tack sharp in the center). These lenses were designed for portraits.

Check out this link. It's a Dallmeyer catalog from 1931. Pages 19,20,21 and 23 feature their soft focus lenses.


http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/dallmeyercat/dallmeyercat.html (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/dallmeyercat/dallmeyercat.html)

Hope this helps.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Bill,

Your lens is a modified Petzval type lens, used, as you surmised, for portraiture. The Dallmeyer was patented in 1866, and was in production until the mid-1940s. The 4b came in two sizes a 13.5" f/3 model or a 17" f/3.8 model. Both were usable for whole plate (6.5" x 8.5"), although according to the literature, the smaller model was intended for Cabinet Portraits (roughly 4x6). You could probably use either lens for 8x10 without much of a problem.

In either case, the lens had a soft focus feature, which by rotating either just the rear element or the barrel (depending on the model of the lens), could be adjusted by inducing spherical aberration by increasing the separation between the members of the rear group.

According to the serial number, your lens date from roughly the 1910s.

I have two of these Dallmeyer lenses, a 3B (11" f/3) which use on 5x7, and a 5A (22" f/4) which someday I will use for 11x14. These lenses BEG to be used; they really make terrific portrait lenses, and (IMHO) it is a shame to keep them on the shelf. If you have the camera, give them a try, I think you will be amazed at their quality.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/dallmeyercat/seriesb.html (http://www.cameraeccentric.com/html/info/dallmeyercat/seriesb.html)

[Ernest Purdum]

Keep looking around, maybe you'll find the Waterhouse stops, though it's almost traditional that they get separated from the lens.



I gather that you afre not familiar with them. You can see what they look like at eBay item 3864575151. Too bad those are too small for your lens.

[darter]

S.K. Grimes makes waterhouse stops in case you can't locate any original ones.

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Although Grimes's shop makes very nice waterhouse stops, they can very easily be made out of thick flat-black mat-board and a utility knife, or--if you have the tools--out of 18 gauge metal sheet, and then painted black. While figuring out the actual size of the aperture can be a difficult task for modern lenses, for Petzval designs they pretty much follow the rule f_stop= focal_length/aperture_size (ie; for my 22" Petzval, f/8 is an aperture of 2.75", 8=22/2.75).

[Bill Shayka]

Wow! Thanks for all of the information! This is a very interesting forum, and I plan to keep an eye on the topics. I cut my photo teeth on 4x5, but it's been a long time since I've done any work with a large format camera. The "relics" laying around this studio aren't just cameras - I'll have to get the darkroom in the basement running again and start doing some FUN things.

Best Wishes!

[seananton]

Here's the result from using a Dallmeyer 4A:

http://www.samackenna.demon.co.uk/honestyc.jpg

This is from a 10x8 wet collodion negative.

Sean

[Jim Galli]

Most of the Dallmeyer's with the "turn for soft focus" arrow have built in aperture. What a great lens! Think about adding a "high end" alternative to the same as every other digital services. I've got some things done with a similar Dallmeyer on my web pages. Good luck.

[e]

I own the same lens you have, a Dallmeyer 4b f3. Use it wide open, don't bother with f stops. It will astonish you! I have used this lens as a portrait lens on 12x20 but it is great on an 8x10 too, although straining my Deardorff's front end. This lens is best at portrait distances as it only covers 5x7 or such at infinity and will need to be stopped down. It really lights up the GG on 12x20 at F3 though. Emile/www.deleon-ulf.com.

[Jon Wilson]

First, everyone please keep mind I confuse easily and it is late... :)

Second, Jason, please excuse my comments/inquiries if I have not paraphrased you accurately or I am confused and using your statements as to Dallmeyer Patent Portrait lens out of context.

Jason can you, or anyone who else, shed some light on the Dallmeyer Petzval type lens, generally, and specifically the 4D & 5D Patent Lens and their "soft focus" feature.

You [Jason] stated previously in this thread that "the [dallmeyer] lens had a soft focus feature, which by rotating either just the rear element or the barrel (depending on the model of the lens), could be adjusted by inducing spherical aberration by increasing the separation between the members of the rear group." Even looking at the patent diagrams of these lens....it was only recently when I was examining my 4D & 5D lens did I realize there are 2 separate lens groups at the end of these barrel lens.
So then, it is by increasing the distance between those 2 lens in the rear group that the "softness" feature is acheived?

In other threads, I have read where you [Jason] state essentially that you have examined and used many of Dallmeyer Patent lens with the "soft focus" feature frozen/stuck and that the adjustment of the rear cell(s) does not create the "soft focus" effect or at least does not work that well. Moreover, the Patent Portrait lens definitely do not produce a result like one sees in pictures taken with a Verito. Just today, I posted a couple of comparison shots on the Vertio picture thread and found the same to be true with my shots.

I have always been perplexed by the "soft" focus mechanism on my Dallmeyer 4D & 5D Patent Lens. Both have an arrow pointing one direction for "soft," yet despite all efforts to get the "soft focus" feature to move, it seems that it will only move if I remove a small philips head screw which allows the entire rear cell unit (comprising of two separate cells) to move and increase the distance the front lens group and the rear lens group or by leaving that philips screw in place and unscrew only the rear lens cell. BTW, my 4D is a brass barrel lens, while my 5D has an aluminum barrel, and both have iris apertures (no waterhouse slots).

In reading Jay Allen's Portrait/Soft Focus book, he describes these Patent Portrait Lens
and describes the use of this "soft focus" feature is such that it....will render "soft pictures in which there is an evenness of definition without unpleasant out-of-foucs effects."

How were these "soft focus" features on the Dallmeyer Patent Portrait lens actually intended to work? Were they designed to have the small screw removed so as to enable one to actually use the "soft focus" feature or were they designed to so that the two separate rear groups of cells would increase the distance from the two cell groups? If the latter one, then is it worth going to the expense and risk/trouble of having a lens repair guru unfreeze the Dallmeyer Patent Portrait lens' rear lens groups?
If it is worth the expense and risk, which lens repair guru is recommended?

All constructive thoughts/comments are appreciated. Jon

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

... So then, it is by increasing the distance between those 2 lens in the rear group that the "softness" feature is acheived?...

Yes. Increasing the space between the two rear elements introduces spherical aberration which decreases sharpness and increases apparent depth of field.

The only way of increasing apparent DOF is by introducing aberrations. In this case spherical aberration appears to spread the depth of field. Here is an quote from Dallmeyer's American Patent of 1867 (no.65729): "... by a slight variation of distance or separation between its elements, any desired amount of spherical aberration can be obtained... With a lens or objective so constructed the operator can, by sacrificing intense sharpness of definition on one plane, distribute the definition over several planes, and so obtain a more artistic and pleasing result."

I have stated elsewhere that this adjustment was orginally designed as way of increasing DOF. It was not designed specifically to be a SF lens. It wasn't until much later that soft focus effect was touted.


... you have examined and used many of Dallmeyer Patent lens with the "soft focus" feature frozen/stuck and that the adjustment of the rear cell(s) does not create the "soft focus" effect or at least does not work that well.

With the original barrel design of the Dallmeyer Patent lenses the SF effect was achieved by reaching through the rear of the camera (removing the GG) and simply uncrewing the rear element a bit. In later models Dallmeyer designed an apparently easier adjustment. The user would simply twist the front part of the barrel. This would increase the distance between the rear elements. However, in time the brass or aluminum in these "improved" barrel seized, rendering the adjustment impossible.


... it seems that it will only move if I remove a small philips head screw which allows the entire rear cell unit (comprising of two separate cells) to move and increase the distance the front lens group and the rear lens group or by leaving that philips screw in place and unscrew only the rear lens cell.

I don't know which style barrel you have. Why don't you email an image to me, that would help me answer your question.

[Jon Wilson]

Jason, attached are several pictures of my 5D Patent Portrait Dallmeyer. It is identical to my brass 4D, except it is an aluminum barrel. It appears to me that the rear set of lens from the outside back toward the barrel total 4 with the lens from the rear back toward the front lens are as follows: convex, concave, convex, and concave. The rear 2 lens will unscrew out completely and the inner two cannot be moved without removal of the small phillips head screw. I am still perplexed how the soft focus mechanism on this designed lens was designed to work. All insights are appreciated. Jon

[Jim Galli]

Jason, attached are several pictures of my 5D Patent Portrait Dallmeyer. It is identical to my brass 4D, except it is an aluminum barrel. It appears to me that the rear set of lens from the outside back toward the barrel total 4 with the lens from the rear back toward the front lens are as follows: convex, concave, convex, and concave. The rear 2 lens will unscrew out completely and the inner two cannot be moved without removal of the small phillips head screw. I am still perplexed how the soft focus mechanism on this designed lens was designed to work. All insights are appreciated. Jon
Jon, it's rare to find one that works. There is a thread unseen at the end of the long tube and when you turned the entire barrel it seperated the 2 rear elements. Almost all are hopelessly frozen now, especially the aluminum ones I think. I have an earlier all brass 3A that is still in working condition. You can accomplish the same thing by reaching into the back of the camera and unscrewing the back element 1/2 or 1 turn.

[Jon Wilson]

Thanks Jim. Upon further investigation, if I remove the small set screw which is on the barrel of this lens, the barrel will rotate which results in the two sets of rear lens (4 lens) to be positioned further from the front lens. When the set screw is in place, then the "soft focus" mechanism is locked into place and all sets of lens are as close to each other as they were designed to be. I will have try some shots to see how the "soft focus" mechanism works. Jon

[Jason Greenberg Motamedi]

Thanks Jim, you saved me a few words.

[Mark Sawyer]

Just bumping a two-year old thread for a clarification: Does the set screw lock the soft-focus movement in place? (So must the set screw be removed for the soft focus to turn?)

[Jon Wilson]

Mark,

As for mine, it did have to be removed on my Dallmeyer Patent 4D and 5D lens to get the soft focus mechanism to work. Without removing the very small screw the soft focus it not turn much at all.
Jon