Wider, Fast Lenses

[Two23]

I shoot trains at night a lot, but have been using a Nikon D800E with Sigma 35 & 50mm f1.4 ART lenses for this. I'd really like to shoot with my Chamonix 4x5 though. I've been experimenting with how much exposure I can get, and with snow on the ground I've been hitting ISO 800 & f11. (I have 10,000ws flash power.) For the past three years I've mostly been buying either classic (lenses from 1910 to 1930) or ancient (1845 to 1865). These aren't synced of course, and aren't coated. For this project I'm thinking my needs are:

1. Wide to normal.
2. Fast, hopefully faster than f5.6 (to make focus in dark easier, and so I can stop down a little for sharpness)
3. Sync
4. Multicoating (to control flare from my flash and train's powerful headlights.



So far I bought a Nikon 90mm f4.5 SW, which will probably be the main lens I use. I would like to buy one more, in the 125mm to 150mm range. I find f5.6 150mm lenses all day long on ebay, and they would probably work, but was wondering if there was something else out there a little faster? Are any of the 150mm f5.6 better than another for this (especially flare control.) A number of my shots involve small town architecture/structures, so the movements on my 4x5 would be put to use. I'm now using a Nikon 24mm PC-E shift lens.

My plan is to shoot Ilford HP5 pushed one stop to ISO 800, and probably mostly use f5.6 to f8. (The f11 was a best case scenario.)

[IanG]

There's the 150mm f4.5 Tessar lenses, the post WWII T coated CZJ versions while not Multi-Coated have particularly good coatings quite blue but fine for Colour work, I did see one on Ebay with a 1938 serial number. The West German Zeiss 150 f4.5 Tessar sold for Linhof's is also well coated but without the slight colour shift.

There's 135mm & 150mm f2.8 Xenotars again coated but they fetch premium prices, however the Plasmats like Symmars, Sironars will out perform the Tessars and Xenotars at wider apertures.

Another premium priced lens is the Zeiss 135mm f3.5 Planar it's possible the best fast lens.

Ian

[Corran]

The 135mm f/3.5 Xenotar would certainly be a good option. Or perhaps one of the 90mm f/4.5 lenses out there if you wanted that wide (*or I could read what you wrote, sorry!).

I wonder about the statement that a Plasmat would outperform a Xenotar at wider apertures. They don't, at least in my experience. But that's looking at images, not test charts.

[Ari]

How much movements can you squeeze out of those Xenotars?
I've heard that these faster lenses have much smaller image circles, but I am nothing if not wrong most of the time.

[Corran]

That's true. It's a trade-off - speed for image circle. Faster Tessars are also going to have a limited IC (at those focal lengths).

I think the 90/4.5 would be ideal for architecture. For slightly longer lenses, you'll either get speed or large IC. There's no free lunch. The fast 135 would be for your train stuff. A specialty lens for certain applications.

[8x10 user]

If you want a larger aperture modern lens for focusing then you might want to look at the Apo Grandagon and Grandagon N F/4.5 lenses. These would be very sharp contrast and easy to focus with. You should still stop down to F/16 or smaller for optimal performance.

If you are looking for something to use wide open with a more artistic look then more of your options will be classic lenses such as Cookes, Lanthars, and Dagors. A 5-6" Cooke Series II will cover 4x5. There is the Xeontar but the look is not the same.

[ic-racer]

Stick with the regular stuff. View camera lenses have been made for over a hundred years. If there was utility in 150mm lenses faster than f5.6 there would be many to choose from. If you can't focus the 5.6 at night, faster won't help. Getting a fast lens to stop it down to 5.6 to improve sharpness [compared to a f5.6 lens] is a fairy tale.

[Two23]

The Zeiss 135mm would be ideal, except cost. OK, the f5.6 lenses are looking pretty good now! Which of the 135mm or 150mm would work for me? Keep in mind I'm lighting big stuff outdoors. This takes a LOT of light. I need to stay around f8 & ISO 800 or at most f11 & ISO 1600 (Not sure what b&w film would push well to ISO 1600.) Generally, I end up focusing on a flashlight placed on the tracks which works perfectly.

[8x10 user]

If you want to add flash sync to your classic lenses you can rear/front mount them with a Packard, Sinar, or Copal Shutter.

[Two23]

If you want to add flash sync to your classic lenses you can rear/front mount them with a Packard, Sinar, or Copal Shutter.


My first love goes to my classic lenses, but I really need multicoating for this. I have taken shots with them using open flash technique on stationary trains, but between the three strong headlights and all the light kicked up by my three big monolights, the flare can be a nightmare. So, I'm looking for multicoating here.

[Two23]

Dang, there's some nice looking choices for 135mm f5.6--Fuji, Nikon, APO Symmar, Caltar N (Rodenstock). Are all of these about the same for my purpose? I am astonished at how cheap they are!

[Mark Sampson]

Two23, any the modern 135mm lenses from the makers that you mention will be just fine for your stated purpose.

[StoneNYC]

My first love goes to my classic lenses, but I really need multicoating for this. I have taken shots with them using open flash technique on stationary trains, but between the three strong headlights and all the light kicked up by my three big monolights, the flare can be a nightmare. So, I'm looking for multicoating here.

There was a lens design thread recently that discussed flare, the most capable member who currently still makes and designs high quality optics said lens coatings were the last thing that truly affected flare, and that lens design itself was what mostly reduced flare.

IIR the 150 SA lenses have low flare. But under 5.6 will be tough, I think you need to choose which is more important, under 5.6 or limited flare, and go with what's most important.

[Two23]

There was a lens design thread recently that discussed flare, the most capable member who currently still makes and designs high quality optics said lens coatings were the last thing that truly affected flare, and that lens design itself was what mostly reduced flare.

IIR the 150 SA lenses have low flare. But under 5.6 will be tough, I think you need to choose which is more important, under 5.6 or limited flare, and go with what's most important.



I've pretty much decided that f5.6 will work for me. (I'm just used to working with f1.4 on my Nikon. :D ) Flare is probably my biggest issue. I'm leaning towards getting a Nikon 135mm f5.6 W, as that will match the Nikon 90mm f4.5 SW I just bought. I don't think I'll get a 150mm. Amazing how much the prices on this top notch stuff has fallen since I was last buying modern 4x5 lenses in the late 1990s.

Here's a Flickr link to what I've been shooting lately:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/96826069@N00/